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Old 10-31-2005, 09:39 PM   #61
99integra
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Originally Posted by enron fever
WRONG! i cannot believe you actually think that cutting taxes is a good thing. do you know what "debt" means? if so, do you know that our country is currently in debt for 6+ TRILLION dollars? exactly how do you intend the US government to pay us back? hopes and dreams? no. the fact of the matter is that your little idealistic hope of no taxes and rich controlling the country is cute and fluffy, but it is NOT how things work. the fact of the matter is that our country is doing nothing but getting deeper and deeper into debt with a currency that is doing nothing but going down in value. the ONLY WAY TO LOWER IT is to raise taxes. a country doesn't run on idealisitc morals and sayings, it runs on money which is one thing we don't have alot of right now.

Bush is having fun with his little war, but he doesn't seem to realize that we are the ones paying for it and we are getting NOTHING in return. it's like us renting panda bears from china. we pay 3 million+ dollars to raise and breed the damn things, and then we end up with a little panda that doesn't even belong to us. not to mention that every major corporation in america out-sources more jobs than it keeps in-house, which plunges our country (especially the middle-lower class) into nothing but further debt and despair, although i think it might be a conspiracy with the drug companies because after an hour on the phone with HP "tech support" (don't even get me started on that...), i need a few nyquil to keep myself from climbing a clock-tower.

basically, as it stands, bush is an idiot who has done nothing but harm america. you can feel cool and part of the little "W" clique, but don't force your idiocy onto america. the mob is already ignorant enough without your help.
Amen brother
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Old 10-31-2005, 10:06 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by thunderbird1100

Social Security shouldn't be as socialistic as it is right now and people SHOULD be allowed to have their separate PRIVATE Social Security accounts.

Wasn't going to get involved in this thread, but I had to make a little aside comment on this point...

Social Security was originally known as Old Age and Survivors Disability Insurance. it was, and still is, an insurance policy, not a retirement fund. You can indeed have your own private retirement fund AND private insurance fund. BUT, as a nationwide insurance policy, it ALWAYS has been that the people working and paying into it are the ones paying the beneficiaries. You are not putting SS money away for YOUR future use. Just like when you pay those $10 a month life insurance policies, you don't think you get a $100,000 benefit from something you only pay $120 a year for, right?

Social Security puts its income in a Trust Fund, as well as in paying out benefits. That trust fund has risen from $50 million or so in the '70s to $1.7 trillion as of last year. It can't be used by any other government agency. And unlike private accounts, has never been embezzled or lost money (like 401ks have done recently).
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Old 10-31-2005, 10:12 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
In about 2-3 years we should be starting to get oil out of the ANWAR too... If the damn liberal democrats would allow us to SAFELY DRILL (like we always have before) in the region, it was found to be pretty oil rich. Even environmentalists can't protect the wasteland part we're trying to get oil drilled at.

I knew we never went to war because of oil, that's another liberal media hijack... As is the reason we went JUST because of "Weapons of mass destruction", but more so there by house democrats and senate democrats than the media. They will use that one for political gains for decades to come...Even knowing he used chemical weapons against the kurds and Iranians repeatedly, they will not acknowledge it. They just say "we didnt find any". Doesn't mean A. They aren't somewhere still hidden or B. They were moved OUT of the country before the war started.


Agreed.

We went there because we were still in an ongoing military campaing from the Gulf war, and only in a cease fire. Saddam violated that cease fire. he violated 14 UN resolutions. He harbored terrorists and paid rewards to people killing Americans worldwide. He killed hundreds of thousands of his own citizens. EVERYONE in the world knew he had chemical weapons and was negotiating for more nuclear weapons. That's why Clinton passed the Iraqi Liberation Act in 1998.

And yet when Bush went there after stabilizing Afghanistan, it was treated like an out of the blue invasion for no actual reason.
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Old 10-31-2005, 10:20 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
Actually Evolution has been debunked, more than several times now. I could go into GREAT detail but I'd posting on here all day long. If you wish to investigate the science behind it just do a search on Evolution being a fallacy. One basic thing Evolution cannot explain is why we feel the need to go about every day and not kill ourselves. That's one of the many SIMPLE things evolution CANNOT explain. If you truely believed in Evolution you have no point whatsoever in living, therefore you WOULD just kill yourself, as it would not matter. Evolution isn't a theory anymore, they dont even try and teach it in schools anymore

You can still feel that life in geenral has a point wihtout disbeliveing in evolution. Maybe life's point is to evolve to the point that it can leva the confines of this planet...

Besides the issues in the bible with Cain killing Abel, then being afraid of all teh people finding out and killing him in return (and God having to put a mark on him so all teh people in the lands he was banished to would leave him alone), where were the cities and countries that he was going to, and where did he get HIS wife?

Of course, we have oil, and you have no problem believing it came from dinosaurs, but how did that oil get there if there were no dinosaurs and no time for evolution to take place? Did God put it there knowing we would need it to power our not-yet-invented cars? If so, why wasn't it mentioned in the bible?

No, the theories of science aren't perfect. But the beauty of them is that, unlike religion, they REQUIRE being questioned and changed as we learn more. The fact that we are typing to each other, using not only the products of scientific research into plastics and polymers, but also using completely invisible atomic particles (electrons) to form words on a light receptive screen elswhere in the world in real time, proves the validity of the scientific method.
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Old 10-31-2005, 10:22 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Wally
All these negative vibes.

The world will continue to get better. I have been around long enough to remember several decades and there's always the doomsayers who pronounce bad times ahead. Hell I remember when some load mouth told us all in the seventies how technology had peaked.

lol! I agree.
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Old 10-31-2005, 10:28 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
Obviously YOU DO believe the media. Bush didn't give tax cuts "for the rich" he cut taxes ACROSS THE BOARD.

snip...

The top bracket already pays TWICE what the bottom bracket percentage wise (36% compared to 15%). So who are YOU to complain? I'm complaining that he still hasnt cut the top 2-3 brackets down MORE.

Actually, thats not exactly correct (mostly, but not entirely). The bottom tax BRACKET is about 15%. But, if you make under approx. $15k a year or so, you don't PAY income tax. The top quartile of taxpayers in the US pay 75% of the nation's taxes. The bottom quartile pays no taxes at all! The next quartile up from the bottom pays maybe 5% of the nations tax burden, with the remaining quartile (the "middle class) paying about 20% of the total. The "rich" get more of the tax break becae they pay more of the tax to start with.
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Old 10-31-2005, 11:31 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
Actually Evolution has been debunked, more than several times now. I could go into GREAT detail but I'd posting on here all day long. If you wish to investigate the science behind it just do a search on Evolution being a fallacy. One basic thing Evolution cannot explain is why we feel the need to go about every day and not kill ourselves. That's one of the many SIMPLE things evolution CANNOT explain. If you truely believed in Evolution you have no point whatsoever in living, therefore you WOULD just kill yourself, as it would not matter. Evolution isn't a theory anymore, they dont even try and teach it in schools anymore


That makes no sense. Evolution teaches that life started as something small and useless and has evolved throughout the years into newer, better suited things to the world. What does that have to do with the will to live? It takes extra effort to kill yourself, wasted effort. Thats one reason. Heres another, evolution couldn't take place if we all just killed ourselves, there would be nothing left. We live because we were born, and we dont kill ourselves because it makes no sense to do so.
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Old 11-01-2005, 06:43 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by ChrisV
Actually, thats not exactly correct (mostly, but not entirely). The bottom tax BRACKET is about 15%. But, if you make under approx. $15k a year or so, you don't PAY income tax. The top quartile of taxpayers in the US pay 75% of the nation's taxes. The bottom quartile pays no taxes at all! The next quartile up from the bottom pays maybe 5% of the nations tax burden, with the remaining quartile (the "middle class) paying about 20% of the total. The "rich" get more of the tax break becae they pay more of the tax to start with.

Have you ever read fairtax? Good book. The top 50% of income earning americans pay 98% of our nations income taxes. Yeah, i know under ~$15k a year earners pay squat, I just didnt address it.

It's sad to see we have such a socialistic tax system.
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Old 11-01-2005, 06:44 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by PontiacFan27
That makes no sense. Evolution teaches that life started as something small and useless and has evolved throughout the years into newer, better suited things to the world. What does that have to do with the will to live? It takes extra effort to kill yourself, wasted effort. Thats one reason. Heres another, evolution couldn't take place if we all just killed ourselves, there would be nothing left. We live because we were born, and we dont kill ourselves because it makes no sense to do so.

Okay im through with the Evolution talk, it's hard to explain it in a way anyone can understand.
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Old 11-01-2005, 08:07 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
Okay im through with the Evolution talk, it's hard to explain it in a way anyone can understand.
especially when you don't understand it yourself
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Old 11-03-2005, 12:15 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by enron fever
the only reason school exists is to give kids a basic understanding of general principles. it's up to the individual kids to seek out and learn specifics for themselves. self-teaching is a much more powerful learning tool than being taught by someone else.

But how would they see the joy of Education and be inspired to learn if all they hear from their teachers is sheep talk? Gotta say, I agree with thunderbird on this point.
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