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Old 12-20-2004, 08:54 AM   #46
DSMer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What
No, it's not useless horsepower. An 800 hp Supra will beat a 600 hp STi. When you get that high in horses, you don't race on the street, you race on a drag strip, and you use slicks. But I'm not suggesting that Supras should be bought to be made into 800 hp monsters. No, I didnt. Dumb bitch, I was saying that a Supra's engine can handle 800 hp on stock internals if you choose to go that high. In other words, if you decide to mod a Supra, you can be confident that your engine won't blow.

Ya dumbass bitch, strong stock internals are important because that's less money you have to pay upgrading and buying sh*t to strengthen your engine.


Stop trying to be a poet, or a philosopher.

As I am obviously clear that the point went completley over your head. Your point contains one of two flaws. You're going off the basis that it cost more to upgrade a Subaru simply because it can't hold power on its stock internals?

Who said anything about racing on a street? Did those words come out of my post? No they did'nt

You can be confident that a Supra's engine won't burst under 800HP?

Is that so What? I garauntee if I bought 10 about 9 or more would catastrophically fail under that kind of power. Thats not opinion, thats pure fact from years of experience and learning from others with decades.

What evidence do you have to prove that a Supra can handle 800
on "practicly stock" internals. Where is this car? Where is this statement coming from? Or are you just blowing hot air out of your ass? Can you prove a bit of anything you've said using reference to either a factual Supra? Do you know what that person did down to the last bolt tightened on that Supra? Prove this, becasue you're throwing arround big boy words, so wheres you're "big dick" to back it up.

I've come to you with a reasonable challenge. Theres no need to get offenseive and try to slander your way out of a reasonable car disucssion. You say you like to talk about cars, then lets talk. Get your proof them come to the table....

Second main flaw. Supras have stopped production almost 10 years ago. So the odds of you finding one in pristine condition are slim to none. However a brand new STi can be bought tomorrow. So you mean to tell me that you'll have to spend more money not restoring the engine on a brand new Subaru than you will giving the Supra a tune-up and possibly rebuilding engine? You're just supposed to slap 800HP worht of equipment on a Supra and its just going to work? Explain to me how exactly can you get 800HP from a Supra without touching the engine's internals? You're going to jump from 300-800HP with mere bolt-ons? Thats a new one. I'd like to see the proof to back that up..

Quote:
No, it isn't. Unless the driver sucks, there is no reason for an 800 hp Supra with slicks to lose to a 600 hp STi with slicks.

Where do you get slicks from? Why is it that you keep changing the terms of engagement. Again you fail to realize my original theory of useless horsepower. Just because a car has 800HP does not mean its all used. How is it that Jhon Sheppards Talon(rated at 650HP at the run) can beat Titan motorsports Supra(rated at over 800HP) in a quartermile race? The same way its plausible for a STi with 200 less hp to beat a 800HP Supra.

Quote:
Top fuel dragsters don't have traction problems. How many horses do they carry?
Haha, thats probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Top fuel dragsters do have traction problems. If they did'nt so many of them would'nt loose traction and crash.
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Old 12-20-2004, 05:28 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMer
Thats not opinion, thats pure fact from years of experience and learning from others with decades.

Years of experience? Please. You rank as one of the dumbest members here. You thought Acura was domestic. You thought Acuras were built and designed in America. Ha ha! Everyone knows that Acuras are just rebadged Hondas that were already designed, built, and tested in Japan.

If you had "years of experience", you'd know that the Supra engine was Toyota's best turbo engine, and you'd know how well it holds up. Here are a few quotes from a few magazines about what they think about the Supra:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperStreet
"...Before you grimace at the thought of adding nitrous boost on top of turbo boost, be advised the stock Toyota 3.0L motor is a very stout piece right from the factory. In fact, with a proper fuel system, 600 hp with stock internals is not out of the question. When all the mods are completed on my Supra, power will be kept at a modest 550..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by ModernRacer
"...This engine is a favorite of drag racers--with stock internals so strong, it is able to withstand many times above the 320 hp power rating...."


Quote:
Originally Posted by SP Engineering
"...Amazingly, this power generation, which equates to about 805 hp at the flywheel, is realized with stock internals on 100-octane Unocal pump gas. "

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboMag
"...The ultimate in technology, style and performance, the (Supra) can easily make 650 hp at the wheels on stock internals."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Shen, SP Engineering
"...The Supra TT has one of the strongest motors in existence. On our project car, we reached 699.7 hp (at the wheels) on stock internals and no use of NOS--a power figure achieved with only bolt-ons and pump gas."


http://www.superstreetonline.com/techarticles/26638/

http://www.modernracer.com/history/t...bohistory.html

http://www.supercars.net/garages/imprezawrx14/10v2.html

http://www.projectgsx.com/tech/10best.html


The Supra's engine is legendary dude. If you really were experienced, you'd know that.
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Old 12-20-2004, 09:31 PM   #48
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SP Engineering Supra eh... Meh I'll give you partial credit as they have actully created a 805HP Supra on what they claim to be stock internals. However, even they "can't really recommended it for daily use and [they] cannot determine how much more the stock engine will take". So thats not really holding the power now is it? None the less, they have still gotten it although I was expecting a Supra with 800HP on stock that was in some sort of automotive competition, but it i'll do. I'll have to say I suspected that one for I read that article in TurboMag a few years back.

Oh yeah you also left out two other points.
1.) Prove that it cost less to upgrade a Supra than it does an STi.
2.) Keeping in mind that the Supra is almost 10 years old and should require some maintainence before the actual performance begins.
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Old 12-20-2004, 11:38 PM   #49
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The amount of Hp in an engine has no effect on speed. An Abrams tank on the front lines in Iraq has a 1500 Horsepower turbine engine, useing What's logic it could break a 600 hp STi in seconds... so lets look shall we: Oh! The top speed is only 45 mph. Sorry What! Hp that is as high as the 600 hp STi and the 800 hp Supra does not make that much of a difference, dont get me wrong though, 200 hp is a decent amount, but with a stock (body, suspension, drivetrain) Supra with 800 hp vs. a customized 600 hp STi, there are very few chances that the Supra would win. Even if the STi was stock it would have the fact that it would be lighter and have more traction going for it.

Info from http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...d/m1-intro.htm
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Old 12-21-2004, 01:12 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StiMan
The amount of Hp in an engine has no effect on speed. An Abrams tank on the front lines in Iraq has a 1500 Horsepower turbine engine, useing What's logic it could break a 600 hp STi in seconds... so lets look shall we: Oh! The top speed is only 45 mph. Sorry What! Hp that is as high as the 600 hp STi and the 800 hp Supra does not make that much of a difference, dont get me wrong though, 200 hp is a decent amount, but with a stock (body, suspension, drivetrain) Supra with 800 hp vs. a customized 600 hp STi, there are very few chances that the Supra would win. Even if the STi was stock it would have the fact that it would be lighter and have more traction going for it.


You stupid dumb f*ck, a tank weighs tons. The Supra is only 300 lbs. more than an STi. A 300 pound disadvantage can be easily overcame with 200 extra horses. I did not say horsepower was everything. I know that there are other factors. But the advantage that the Sti has in those "other" factors is small. Those "factors" definitely aren't big enough to overcome a 200 hp disadvantage.

I repeat:
A Supra is only 200-300 lbs. heavier than an STi. What would you rather for your car, lose 300 lbs, or gain 200 hp? This conversation is a joke. How could you people be so f*cking stupid.
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Old 12-21-2004, 01:35 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What
This conversation is a joke.

You're damn right this is a joke. You remind me of a cheap ass polotician. Notice how you only choose to respond to questions that can only be answered to benefit your original statments. You have yet to conclude why, if any relevance at all, its important that a Supra can hold 800HP on stock internals. You've also failed to mention any information regarding a Supras expenses towards that of an STi. You still can't seem to come up with an answer of how a 5-10 year old car can cost less to improve than a brand new one.

Is it because you have no answers?

Or becuase you know you're wrong?

You've simply done nothing but run arround questions and answers to make yourself seem correct. You've left over 4 of my questions un answered. A joke, no this is rediculous. You don't know nor do you have the proof to anwswer any of those questions I asked you. Bounce arround if you'd like. You're simply an ignorant piece of shit. You don't know, never knew, and probably never will know at your rate of anything relevant to substancial information regarding these topics. Yet again, you've reduced yourself even further down the chain than you've allready slipped. Your own hipocritic actions are simply your fate. You claim you like to talk about cars, but when the time comes you just can't stand the heat.

You're right this conversation is a joke. I'm through with this as every obvious piece of inteligible information has been voided by the derth of intelligence and the abundance of ignorance...
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Old 12-21-2004, 03:28 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMer
You're damn right this is a joke. You remind me of a cheap ass polotician. Notice how you only choose to respond to questions that can only be answered to benefit your original statments. You have yet to conclude why, if any relevance at all, its important that a Supra can hold 800HP on stock internals. You've also failed to mention any information regarding a Supras expenses towards that of an STi.

It is important that a Supra's stock internals can withstand lots of power because it saves you money, time, and fustration. That's common sense DSMer. All you need to do is buy bolt-ons for the Supra. Most cars will need extensive reinforcement for the engine internals, which is very expensive. Also, if you're paying someone to do it for you, your labor bill will be very high. ALSO, if you don't reinforce everything, and "forget" or skip over a particular part, you'll break something, and be forced to sit your car. There are so many advantages of having a car whose engine is already reinforced for serious modifications.

Unless you buy a golden turbo charger for the Supra, I don't think an Sti would be cheaper to extensively modify than a Supra.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMer
You still can't seem to come up with an answer of how a 5-10 year old car can cost less to improve than a brand new one...
Dude, do you really have experience with cars? Older cars are much easier and cheaper to modify than newer ones. Why do you think you see so many 5.0 Mustangs on the drag strip? Newer cars have pesky computers and also, most high production cars use lighter, less "tough", cost-effective materials....not good for modifications. An STi computer chip will be more than a Supras.
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Old 12-21-2004, 03:43 AM   #53
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I don't think you realise how valueable a Supra engine is. Why do you think the Supra is idolized so much? The Supra and the Nissan Skyline have excellent engines that hardcore racers desire because of their tunability and strength.

Some people buy a whole Supra just to take the engine and swap it to another car. It's practically a pre-prepped engine.
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Old 12-21-2004, 03:53 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What
It is important that a Supra's stock internals can withstand lots of power because it saves you money, time, and fustration. That's common sense DSMer. All you need to do is buy bolt-ons for the Supra. Most cars will need extensive reinforcement for the engine internals, which is very expensive. Also, if you're paying someone to do it for you, your labor bill will be very high. ALSO, if you don't reinforce everything, and "forget" or skip over a particular part, you'll break something, and be forced to sit your car. There are so many advantages of having a car whose engine is already reinforced for serious modifications.

Unless you buy a golden turbo charger for the Supra, I don't think an Sti would be cheaper to extensively modify than a Supra.


Dude, do you really have experience with cars? Older cars are much easier and cheaper to modify than newer ones. Why do you think you see so many 5.0 Mustangs on the drag strip? Newer cars have pesky computers and also, most high production cars use lighter, less "tough", cost-effective materials....not good for modifications. An STi computer chip will be more than a Supras.


Correct it makes sense to have an allready strong engine, but engines wear down overtime. I've seldomly seen a Supra with under 40-80K and I highly doubt the total rigidity of that engine still exist after years of being mistreated by god knows what with god knows who.

Yes older cars are easy to mod, but a Supra is'nt old enough to the point it does'nt have sophisticated electronics and its not exactly young enough to not have bad mileage.

Correct, newer cars do tend to cost more in the upgrade category but what you have left out is that a Supra is one of those cars that seems to maintain value. Bolt-ons for a Supra are indded expensive. However, the STi responds well to mods and while it is a newer car the bolt-ons are just a tad bit less than your average Supra.

The basic point being is that all older cars take time and money to restore to factory-like conditon. Time and money that newer cars should'nt need. A Subaru only has 4 cylinders and when you're in the 600HP range you're no newbie so I'm going to say you're doing these mods yourself or with your own personal team. Its not going to cost nearly as much as you claim it to be to replace pistons and valve train in a STi. Not to mention the money that will be spent on the Supras suspension and drivetrain to keep it planted on the ground. Its going to take more than 800HP of bolt-ons to make a Supra as bad as you say it is..

Yes the Supra is a great car, but if these two were compared in a realistic world the STi should win because it just has more to offer. Not everyone is a boy racer. The STi can jump just as high as the Supra, and still offer the ammenities of a sedan. Its not just about dyno queen numbers and track times. Many other factors go into the situation. The more realistic choice would be the STi. Not only is it able to do many autmotive sports, if you're conservative you can keep it street legal and drive it home at the end of a few runs down the strip.
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Old 12-21-2004, 04:07 AM   #55
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Yeah...
If that's how you feel.

I'd pick the Supra. Theres a reason they hold their value so well.
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Old 12-21-2004, 04:12 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by What
Yeah...
If that's how you feel.

I'd pick the Supra. Theres a reason they hold their value so well.

Oh I know, beleive me. I've dropped at the line on the streets before. Rated at 500+ RWHP.
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Old 12-21-2004, 05:07 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What
You stupid dumb f*ck, a tank weighs tons. The Supra is only 300 lbs. more than an STi. A 300 pound disadvantage can be easily overcame with 200 extra horses. I did not say horsepower was everything. I know that there are other factors. But the advantage that the Sti has in those "other" factors is small. Those "factors" definitely aren't big enough to overcome a 200 hp disadvantage.

I repeat:
A Supra is only 200-300 lbs. heavier than an STi. What would you rather for your car, lose 300 lbs, or gain 200 hp? This conversation is a joke. How could you people be so f*cking stupid.
I was talking about the damn engine not the f*cking tank... I was making a simple point about Hp.
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Old 12-23-2004, 12:25 AM   #58
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Wait, how much would it cost to restore a Supra from like '94?
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Old 12-23-2004, 02:07 AM   #59
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Dsmer and what are both dorks.
This thread sucks.
Supras are way sexier.
End.
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Old 12-23-2004, 02:14 AM   #60
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Just adding my bit. A Supra with stock internals will only go up to just under 500bhp, then you'll need upgrading. I don't really know what you guys do with Supras in the US, but i have a mate who's running i think 1024bhp (That's when it's working). They have near bullitproof engines and can be easily modified. And and don't know where you get your info from DSMer, but the supra is not capped at 155mph. I know that for a fact as i was racing a Porsche Carrera the other day and i backed off at about 163/5.

Unfortunatly on the down side thay are a heavy car as standard. Also the RWD is a pain which doesn't help having standard Slip Control. But again this can be changed to a better performance one which.

The STI as standard has a great engine, coupled with AWD makes it a great car that you can throw into the corners knowing that your not gonna loose grip. I took a rally preped one for a test drive about 6 months ago and loved it. But the thing i just didn't like was the interior. Ok, i know it's a stupid hang up, but it's just so cheap and crap. I gues at the end of the day a company that makes farm equipment don't really have that much interior practise.

If you were to put them head to head im gonna go with the supra. I know it'll upset many peopl, but that's my choice. here's a thread from a UK forum about STI's, Supras and a Porsche that you should all read.
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