Car Forums  

Go Back   Car Forums > Vehicle Specific > Domestic Cars
FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-12-2005, 04:35 AM   #16
thunderbird1100
CF dB-o-holic
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LSU Campus
Posts: 3,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by windsonian
I never said that you were wrong, I just said you assumed. Like I said, it was a good (and safe) assumption, but I just found it funny that you made a comment about someone else assuming.

Who cares that it's called POWER WIRE (or was that just a caps lock slip? ) Like I said, it's all just a pathway for electrons. You could power your amp off telephone cable as long as you used enough cores. Of course, termination would be a real bitch!

I actually thought the CAT6 idea was quite nifty. It meant he could play the tunes off his computer without having to move the computer, or run new speaker cable.

I really dont want to get into a wire debate...but put it this way, power wire is different than speaker wire (strand for strand).

I didn't assume anything, I know what it was. He ASSUMED those were stock speakers sitting behind the grills, and no one can tell unless the grills are removed, that's not a good assumption.

He assumed, I in fact, did not.
__________________
1990 Honda Accord LX Sedan
Mileage Ticker: 232,400 Miles
Stereo Mods: Coming soon...

~Blow your mind~

thunderbird1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2005, 05:14 AM   #17
windsonian
Dodger65's weirdo
 
windsonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Down Below
Posts: 2,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
I really dont want to get into a wire debate...but put it this way, power wire is different than speaker wire (strand for strand).
What, difference in capacitance, shielding etc? So what? It's running DC power, so it doesn't mean crap. The only thing that you need to worry about is resistance - and we all know that 1/R(total) = 1/R(1) + 1/R(2) etc... Therefore, more cores reduces the resistance, therefore reducing the voltage drop, therefore speaker cable would be just as good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
I didn't assume anything, I know what it was.
You don't KNOW what it was. If I showed you a picture with the same cables in it, then told you that I'd hooked up the other end to an electric bilge pump, who'd be right, me or you? We couldn't both be right, because I know that the cables are used to power a pump, and you know that the cables are used for an amp. So someone has made an assumption. I built the thing, therefore the only assumption I could have made is that I assume the thing I hooked up was in fact a bilge pump. You on the other hand have assumed that because I'm using cable USUALLY used for amps, that I'm powering an amp. Like I said before, a good assumption, but an assumption nonetheless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
He ASSUMED those were stock speakers sitting behind the grills, and no one can tell unless the grills are removed, that's not a good assumption.

He assumed, I in fact, did not.
You ASSUMED those wires were connected for an amp, and no one can tell unless they used the amp, or traced the wires (which may not help in the case of the power cable anyway). This was a good assumption, better than the speaker one ... but you can't tell me that it isn't an assumption, because it is.

Confidence in an assumption based on knowledge or past experience generally improves the chances of the assumption being correct, but never stops it being an assumption.

I know I'm being pedantic and petty, but I just don't like people trying to cling on to ideas to prevent themselves being proven even slightly wrong.
__________________
You can only be young once. But you can always be immature.
windsonian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2005, 05:21 AM   #18
thunderbird1100
CF dB-o-holic
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LSU Campus
Posts: 3,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by windsonian
What, difference in capacitance, shielding etc? So what? It's running DC power, so it doesn't mean crap. The only thing that you need to worry about is resistance - and we all know that 1/R(total) = 1/R(1) + 1/R(2) etc... Therefore, more cores reduces the resistance, therefore reducing the voltage drop, therefore speaker cable would be just as good.


You don't KNOW what it was. If I showed you a picture with the same cables in it, then told you that I'd hooked up the other end to an electric bilge pump, who'd be right, me or you? We couldn't both be right, because I know that the cables are used to power a pump, and you know that the cables are used for an amp. So someone has made an assumption. I built the thing, therefore the only assumption I could have made is that I assume the thing I hooked up was in fact a bilge pump. You on the other hand have assumed that because I'm using cable USUALLY used for amps, that I'm powering an amp. Like I said before, a good assumption, but an assumption nonetheless.


You ASSUMED those wires were connected for an amp, and no one can tell unless they used the amp, or traced the wires (which may not help in the case of the power cable anyway). This was a good assumption, better than the speaker one ... but you can't tell me that it isn't an assumption, because it is.

Confidence in an assumption based on knowledge or past experience generally improves the chances of the assumption being correct, but never stops it being an assumption.

I know I'm being pedantic and petty, but I just don't like people trying to cling on to ideas to prevent themselves being proven even slightly wrong.

Wow I see you're just TRYING to gouge here...

/rant on

Yes, because we all know 4ga POWER and GROUND wires running to a car's trunk with a very possible remote turn on lead besides them are used to power an extremely high intensity camera to take pictures of Mars... You're right, my "ASSUMPTION" that they 99.99999999999999% went to a car's amplifier was retarded.

/rant off
__________________
1990 Honda Accord LX Sedan
Mileage Ticker: 232,400 Miles
Stereo Mods: Coming soon...

~Blow your mind~

thunderbird1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2005, 05:26 AM   #19
windsonian
Dodger65's weirdo
 
windsonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Down Below
Posts: 2,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
Wow I see you're just TRYING to gouge here...

Yes, because we all know 4ga POWER and GROUND wires running to a car's trunk with a very possible remote turn on lead besides them are used to power an extremely high intensity camera to take pictures of Mars... You're right, my "ASSUMPTION" that they 99.99999999999999% went to a car's amplifier was retarded.
Of course I am ... I simply made the observation which I found slightly amusing, but then I got a defensive response, which sparked me off. Sorry, it must just be an Australian thing to wind people up when they get defensive about something

I never said your assumption was retarded .... in fact I mentioned several times that it was a good assumption and most likely correct. I was merely pointing out that it was an assumption. You'll probably find that 90% of people with stock speaker grilles have stock speakers too (btw I just assumed 90% ).

Also, what's the difference between a 4ga power wire and a 4ga ground wire? There may be a difference, I don't know, but I'd be interested to find out.
__________________
You can only be young once. But you can always be immature.
windsonian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2005, 05:11 PM   #20
thunderbird1100
CF dB-o-holic
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LSU Campus
Posts: 3,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by windsonian
Of course I am ... I simply made the observation which I found slightly amusing, but then I got a defensive response, which sparked me off. Sorry, it must just be an Australian thing to wind people up when they get defensive about something

I never said your assumption was retarded .... in fact I mentioned several times that it was a good assumption and most likely correct. I was merely pointing out that it was an assumption. You'll probably find that 90% of people with stock speaker grilles have stock speakers too (btw I just assumed 90% ).

Also, what's the difference between a 4ga power wire and a 4ga ground wire? There may be a difference, I don't know, but I'd be interested to find out.

There is no difference between 4ga power/ground wire. Same wire exact wire strands in each. Only the Power wire is much longer than the ground for obvious reasons (the power wire goes from the car's positive battery terminal to the amp while the ground wire goes from the amp to a chassis ground location). Usually a power wire is anywhere from 15-20feet long while a ground wire usually 3-4 feet long. The power wire is always FUSED (usually with an AGU or ANL fuse) within 12-18 inches from the battery). The remote turn-on lead wire goes from a a wire attached to the HU (usually blue with a white stripe) that sends a "12v" signal to the amp to turn it on when the HU is turned on. The RCA cables are simply 2 (usually) cables that go from the HU to the amp that carry the audio signal. Then speaker wire carrys that from the amp to the speaker(S). Power/Ground wire can get more complicated especially when you add in the factor of several amps (with different gauge requirements), distrobution blocks and different fuse requirements.

For instance in my setup right now it's like this...
Orion 2500D - Two 4ga power terminals
Alpine MRV-F550 - One 4ga power terminal
Alpine MRV-T320 - One 8ga power terminal

Instead of running 4 separate power wires I run just two 0ga wires to my battery (the 8ga goes to my under hood fuse block). Then when it gets to the back I have a 2 0ga input 3 4ga output distro block then run the 4ga power wires to the appropriate locations (but in this case I only need a few feet of 4ga wire). Each 0ga power wire is fused at 250amps if I remember correctly (with an ANL fuse).
__________________
1990 Honda Accord LX Sedan
Mileage Ticker: 232,400 Miles
Stereo Mods: Coming soon...

~Blow your mind~

thunderbird1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2005, 10:40 PM   #21
windsonian
Dodger65's weirdo
 
windsonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Down Below
Posts: 2,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
There is no difference between 4ga power/ground wire. Same wire exact wire strands in each. Only the Power wire is much longer than the ground for obvious reasons (the power wire goes from the car's positive battery terminal to the amp while the ground wire goes from the amp to a chassis ground location).
So the only way you can tell the difference is by checking the length of the cable? I can't see both ends of either cable in that photo, so once again, you're assuming that you see a power and ground wire. Like I've said before, a very good assumption, but still an assumption. There is no way you can know from looking at the picture whether they are 2 power wires, 2 ground, 1 power and 1 ground ... or for that matter a single cable looped around showing both ends.

.... and yet you based your argument on the fact that you saw a POWER and a GROUND cable. If there's no difference in the cable, you can't tell me what they are.

[EDIT]: Question: Which cable in the picture is the Positive cable, and which one is the Ground?
__________________
You can only be young once. But you can always be immature.

Last edited by windsonian : 10-12-2005 at 11:13 PM.
windsonian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2005, 11:00 PM   #22
Pythias
CF Extraordinaire
 
Pythias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ohio, U.S.
Posts: 1,831
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
Wow I see you're just TRYING to gouge here...

/rant on

Yes, because we all know 4ga POWER and GROUND wires running to a car's trunk with a very possible remote turn on lead besides them are used to power an extremely high intensity camera to take pictures of Mars... You're right, my "ASSUMPTION" that they 99.99999999999999% went to a car's amplifier was retarded.

/rant off

Just like how you correct everyone that says ford 5.0 with ford 4.9 now he is correcting you yet you don't like it mhmmmm I see a hypocrite here. YES the ford 5.0 is actualyl a 4.9 just like EVENTHOUGH they are used for that 99.9 percent of the time they are not ALWAYS used for that. Interesting comparison we have here mhmmm....
__________________
"Though I drive through the valley of rice,I shall fear no turbo for torque art with me. Thy rod and piston, they comfort me."

"It is not the strong who will win, but the winner who is strong." -ROTK7
"You wrote "The World Doesn't Need A Savior" but everyday I hear people crying for one."
Pythias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2005, 01:35 AM   #23
thunderbird1100
CF dB-o-holic
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LSU Campus
Posts: 3,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pythias


Just like how you correct everyone that says ford 5.0 with ford 4.9 now he is correcting you yet you don't like it mhmmmm I see a hypocrite here. YES the ford 5.0 is actualyl a 4.9 just like EVENTHOUGH they are used for that 99.9 percent of the time they are not ALWAYS used for that. Interesting comparison we have here mhmmm....

This is not a hypocratic means whatsoever and I dont know how you tried to just relate that. Was it you or someone else told me "I" was the ignorant one when i said it's a 4.9 instead of what Ford tells everyone?hmmm...

How long have you been in the car audio business? That's right
__________________
1990 Honda Accord LX Sedan
Mileage Ticker: 232,400 Miles
Stereo Mods: Coming soon...

~Blow your mind~

thunderbird1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2005, 01:39 AM   #24
thunderbird1100
CF dB-o-holic
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LSU Campus
Posts: 3,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by windsonian
So the only way you can tell the difference is by checking the length of the cable? I can't see both ends of either cable in that photo, so once again, you're assuming that you see a power and ground wire. Like I've said before, a very good assumption, but still an assumption. There is no way you can know from looking at the picture whether they are 2 power wires, 2 ground, 1 power and 1 ground ... or for that matter a single cable looped around showing both ends.

.... and yet you based your argument on the fact that you saw a POWER and a GROUND cable. If there's no difference in the cable, you can't tell me what they are.

[EDIT]: Question: Which cable in the picture is the Positive cable, and which one is the Ground?

It's SET of cables. One power, one ground, one turn on. Dont drag this on any farther than it has to, it ended in fact i nthe first dumbass post you made against this... You're arguing with someone who knows A LOT about this type of stuff. Stop trying to point-out dumb things, it's not what makes this forum worthwhile. Nobody is going to magically leave two power and one turn on lead. It's SET of cables for ONE amplifier. IF it's not then I'll personally pay the plane ticket for you to fly over here and shoot me. But since we're at it, if I am in fact correct, how about you do the same? Willing to lay that down? If not, just STFU. Simple as that
__________________
1990 Honda Accord LX Sedan
Mileage Ticker: 232,400 Miles
Stereo Mods: Coming soon...

~Blow your mind~

thunderbird1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2005, 01:53 AM   #25
Pythias
CF Extraordinaire
 
Pythias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ohio, U.S.
Posts: 1,831
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
This is not a hypocratic means whatsoever and I dont know how you tried to just relate that. Was it you or someone else told me "I" was the ignorant one when i said it's a 4.9 instead of what Ford tells everyone?hmmm...

How long have you been in the car audio business? That's right

It was someone else for one. And wow you put up such an argument there how that is not hypocritical because it is. None even needs to know jacksh*t about car audio, based off the posts I just read anyone can see what I see as long as they aren't too close-minded.
__________________
"Though I drive through the valley of rice,I shall fear no turbo for torque art with me. Thy rod and piston, they comfort me."

"It is not the strong who will win, but the winner who is strong." -ROTK7
"You wrote "The World Doesn't Need A Savior" but everyday I hear people crying for one."
Pythias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2005, 04:23 AM   #26
thunderbird1100
CF dB-o-holic
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LSU Campus
Posts: 3,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pythias
It was someone else for one. And wow you put up such an argument there how that is not hypocritical because it is. None even needs to know jacksh*t about car audio, based off the posts I just read anyone can see what I see as long as they aren't too close-minded.

If you dont know anything about car audio and try and get a knock in at someone who does when (According to windsonian) they have a "99.9% chance" of being right. I call THAT hypocritical. Trying to relate the fact Ford fooled everyone into calling their 4.9L engine a 5.0L and I dont go along with what everyone else calls to THIS is just inane...
__________________
1990 Honda Accord LX Sedan
Mileage Ticker: 232,400 Miles
Stereo Mods: Coming soon...

~Blow your mind~

thunderbird1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2005, 07:12 AM   #27
windsonian
Dodger65's weirdo
 
windsonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Down Below
Posts: 2,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
It's SET of cables. One power, one ground, one turn on. Dont drag this on any farther than it has to, it ended in fact i nthe first dumbass post you made against this... You're arguing with someone who knows A LOT about this type of stuff. Stop trying to point-out dumb things, it's not what makes this forum worthwhile. Nobody is going to magically leave two power and one turn on lead. It's SET of cables for ONE amplifier. IF it's not then I'll personally pay the plane ticket for you to fly over here and shoot me. But since we're at it, if I am in fact correct, how about you do the same? Willing to lay that down? If not, just STFU. Simple as that
I NEVER SAID YOU WERE WRONG! Show me where I said that, then I'll "lay it down".

Don't tell me you know a lot about this type of stuff, because that is beside the point. Do you try to win arguments by scaring other people into not arguing by telling them you know too much about it?

I don't argue outside my own abilities (well not usually anyway ), so you telling me how much you know doesn't worry me. Because you know a lot about audio doesn't really mean much when we're just talking about a DC power circuit. One cable is a bit of metal at 1 potential, the other wire is a bit of metal at another potential, and there's a load in the middle that drops the difference with a resistance. The size, manufacture and composition of the cable just allows more or less current flow by changing the resistance.

The problem is not that I think you're wrong about what the cables are. The problem is that you can't admit that you do not know for certain. Are you going to fork out plane tickets if the speakers are stock? Same argument.
__________________
You can only be young once. But you can always be immature.
windsonian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2005, 07:19 AM   #28
thunderbird1100
CF dB-o-holic
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LSU Campus
Posts: 3,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by windsonian
I NEVER SAID YOU WERE WRONG! Show me where I said that, then I'll "lay it down".

Don't tell me you know a lot about this type of stuff, because that is beside the point. Do you try to win arguments by scaring other people into not arguing by telling them you know too much about it?

I don't argue outside my own abilities (well not usually anyway ), so you telling me how much you know doesn't worry me. Because you know a lot about audio doesn't really mean much when we're just talking about a DC power circuit. One cable is a bit of metal at 1 potential, the other wire is a bit of metal at another potential, and there's a load in the middle that drops the difference with a resistance. The size, manufacture and composition of the cable just allows more or less current flow by changing the resistance.

The problem is not that I think you're wrong about what the cables are. The problem is that you can't admit that you do not know for certain. Are you going to fork out plane tickets if the speakers are stock? Same argument.


I'm done arguing about something moot.
__________________
1990 Honda Accord LX Sedan
Mileage Ticker: 232,400 Miles
Stereo Mods: Coming soon...

~Blow your mind~

thunderbird1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2005, 07:22 AM   #29
windsonian
Dodger65's weirdo
 
windsonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Down Below
Posts: 2,081
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
I'm done arguing about something moot.
You're right ... it was only ever a silly argument about a minor technicality.

Couldn't let it go though, could you? Didn't want to admit any potential that I might have been right, no matter how trivial the matter.

That's cool, just human nature. I can be the same.

Sorry. Maybe I'm a sick person, but I quite enjoy exchanges like the one we've had here.

Peace?
__________________
You can only be young once. But you can always be immature.
windsonian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2005, 05:13 PM   #30
thunderbird1100
CF dB-o-holic
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LSU Campus
Posts: 3,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by windsonian
You're right ... it was only ever a silly argument about a minor technicality.

Couldn't let it go though, could you? Didn't want to admit any potential that I might have been right, no matter how trivial the matter.

That's cool, just human nature. I can be the same.

Sorry. Maybe I'm a sick person, but I quite enjoy exchanges like the one we've had here.

Peace?
mOOOOOOOOOt

Sure why not?
__________________
1990 Honda Accord LX Sedan
Mileage Ticker: 232,400 Miles
Stereo Mods: Coming soon...

~Blow your mind~

thunderbird1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:58 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2002 - 2011 Car Forums. All rights reserved.