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Old 10-26-2005, 03:04 PM   #61
ChrisV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondaman
Honestly I don't know why everyone has such a problem with four door sports cars, Mercedes Benz and BMW have been doing it for years...

yup. From the '80s, with the BMW M5:





And the AMG Hammer and 500e





Modern American muscle like the Maurader and Impala SS (the V8, RWD versions that are collectors items already) and sport sedans (like my SVT Contour) also seem to be just fine as 4 door cars. And of course, the WRX and Evo...

Still, I see no one has taken me up on my offer to come point out how MY Chrysler product is "crap."
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Old 10-26-2005, 03:56 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by ChrisV
yup. From the '80s, with the BMW M5:





And the AMG Hammer and 500e





Modern American muscle like the Maurader and Impala SS (the V8, RWD versions that are collectors items already) and sport sedans (like my SVT Contour) also seem to be just fine as 4 door cars. And of course, the WRX and Evo...

Still, I see no one has taken me up on my offer to come point out how MY Chrysler product is "crap."


Everyone has different experiences with cars. My family's 2000 Town and Country Limited 3.8 was/is an utter heap. Even with the warrenty I dont want even tally up the days it has been out of commission or money spent on fixing it. Has about 90,000 on it now if I remember correctly (Thankfully we spent the extra $2k and got the EXTENDED 100k mile warrenty). My dad's 2002 RL has 65,000 on it and has had no problems other than needing to get the front under body rubber spoiler replaced (but it was actually his fault). MY 1990 Accord still has yet to ever have a problem, only the main relay was replaced in the past 30k miles because it would do a long start up in extreme 100+ degree heat. It didnt even NEED it, but for a quicker startup I decided to go ahead an do it for under $100. But it seems I'm not the only one on this board thast has had horrible luck with the T & C... My cousin (who is about 32 now) got a 2001 Town and Country used about a year ago and has had an equal share of problems with his (replacing the tranny, interior parts falling off, etc...). I guess Chrysler decided to just wing it on the Town and Country's build quality inside and out from what I've gathered. The most recent problem from what i heard on our 2000 T & C is the sliding door chrome handle just "fell off" when the car was getting detailed.
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Old 10-26-2005, 04:29 PM   #63
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And from what I've seen on the PT club sites, as well as from 67k miles of personal experience and a couple friends I recommended the vehicle to, the car is solid, reliable, and does everything it's supposed to. And that seems to hold true for the vast majority of teh 800k PTs built.

One issue I do know of is in the Mitsu sourced automatic transmissions that were originally for the Minivans... It's a common thing for them to go bad, and the reason is people using the wrong fluid in them. Even the dealerships sometimes use the wrong fluid in them, causing all sorts of problems. I haven't heard anything bad about the newer autostick versions, however.

And both my Honda and a few of my sister's Hondas have had their share of problems. I have a co-worker here with a '95 Accord coupe that the head gasket went bad on at under 50k miles, and already has the typical rust behind both rear wheelwells. But I would be wrong to call Honda's Crap for those issues, wouldn't I? Same with calling Honda's crap for having CRVs burn down or recalling close to a million cars for automatic transmission failures. And the fact that Accord rear brakes have been known to wear out at an alarming rate.
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Old 10-26-2005, 04:32 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
and already has the typical rust behind both rear wheelwells.
That's typical?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
And the fact that Accord rear brakes have been known to wear out at an alarming rate.
They have?

Great, looks like I have some checking to do once classes are over.
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Old 10-26-2005, 04:57 PM   #65
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Yours most likely won't have it, being so much further south. Up here, Hondas and rust are synonymous...

Here's a couple '91s, which are typical...





Here's a '94:



Here's a '93 Civic...



And another:




And of course, going back to the '80s, it's excessively common. OTOH, none of the ones I knew about back in the Seattle area were like this, and my sister's '70s Civics are rust free for the most part, as well.
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Old 10-26-2005, 05:01 PM   #66
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BTW, that Prelude I posted has just about 1 day left on it, and is bid under $700 right now. Other than the rust it's in NICE shape.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1
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Old 10-26-2005, 05:02 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
Yours most likely won't have it, being so much further south. Up here, Hondas and rust are synonymous...

Here's a couple '91s, which are typical...





Here's a '94:



Here's a '93 Civic...



And another:




And of course, going back to the '80s, it's excessively common. OTOH, none of the ones I knew about back in the Seattle area were like this, and my sister's '70s Civics are rust free for the most part, as well.
Ah I see. Yeah, I don't have any visible rust...but I'll check under the wheel wells for the hell of it later today, just to ease my mind.
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Old 10-26-2005, 05:11 PM   #68
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Would the brake issue be present on my generation Accord? I haven't noticed any problems or excessive amounts of brake dust....
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Old 10-26-2005, 06:01 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by ChrisV
How the f8ck do you get that? It's not even a station wagon OR a pickup.

Apparently you missed out on the design of cars for the decades of oh, 1920-1990.

It, like the 300C, is a design that hearkens back to the days of American sedans having American design, not some watered down, generic jellybean. And it shares ZERO lines with a truck.

Hey, no need to get hostile with me asshole. I'm stating an opinion. I think the body lines and grill make it look like an a truck/SUV squished into a car. I dont care for that body style. Enough for you? Or do I have to explain why or why I dont like that it looks like a truck to me?
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Old 10-26-2005, 06:08 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by ChrisV
And from what I've seen on the PT club sites, as well as from 67k miles of personal experience and a couple friends I recommended the vehicle to, the car is solid, reliable, and does everything it's supposed to. And that seems to hold true for the vast majority of teh 800k PTs built.

One issue I do know of is in the Mitsu sourced automatic transmissions that were originally for the Minivans... It's a common thing for them to go bad, and the reason is people using the wrong fluid in them. Even the dealerships sometimes use the wrong fluid in them, causing all sorts of problems. I haven't heard anything bad about the newer autostick versions, however.

And both my Honda and a few of my sister's Hondas have had their share of problems. I have a co-worker here with a '95 Accord coupe that the head gasket went bad on at under 50k miles, and already has the typical rust behind both rear wheelwells. But I would be wrong to call Honda's Crap for those issues, wouldn't I? Same with calling Honda's crap for having CRVs burn down or recalling close to a million cars for automatic transmission failures. And the fact that Accord rear brakes have been known to wear out at an alarming rate.


I know all cars have their fair shar of problems. I think the rust problem is definatley a NORTHERN issue. Because here in the south (where we get maybe a heavy snow once every decade) you dont see that problem on aNY vehicle. Definatley probably due to the salt on the roads, but then almost any vehicle is subject to rust from salt on the roads. I have heard of this problem with specifically to Hondas though.

I know the Accord (newer versions) was recalled for automatic tranny problems. The rear brakes thing I have never heard about, nor ever encountered this problem (working closely with a honda/acura specialist place for 3 years, was it just a recall?). My rear drums on my Accord have always worked 100% and just gotten the shoes changed when they needed to be. Is it a disc or drum problem? The only problem we had when my family had a 92 Accord Wagon was the master cylinder went bad after 6 years.

And while you say the PT seems to be 100% working from what you gather the mass population as a whole has found a few problems with them as reflected in the jd power survey of 2001.

2001
Initial ratings - 90 days
Mechanical Quality - 3 out of 5
Feature/ Accessory Dependability - 4 out of 5
Body/Interior Quality - 3 out of 5

Long Term ratings - 3+ years
Mechanical Dependability - 2 out of 5 stars
Feature/ Accessory Dependability - 4 out of 5
Body/Interior Quality - 4 out of 5
Overall Dependability - 3 out of 5

4 means "Better than most"
3 means "About average"
2 means "the rest" - which isn't good

So obviously some people are having problems with powertrain/drivetrain.
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Old 10-26-2005, 07:12 PM   #71
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yeah, like I said, teh automatics, sourced throught the minivan parts bin from Mitsubishi, are full of the same issues they had in the minivans. And from what I've found out, it'sa case of recommending the wrong fluids, causing seal and pressure valve problems that literally destroy the transmissions. of course, I have the 5 speed manual, so I don't have those issues.

As far as ither things, no serious recalls after teh first year, and I havne't seen anyone on teh PT forums complaining about trim falling off or any other little problems that "crap" cars would have.

Again, 800k of them sold, and many, MANY recommendations by owners to others to buy them (how much of that do you see happening with, say, Sebrings, or even GM vehciles liek Azteks?), and owners clubs worldwide with growing membership.

As for "quality>" ratings of say, 3 out of 5, the cars are dirt cheap (the base level is $14k...) and most parts are unique to the PT, meaning something ahs to give somewhere. A few casting lines here and there, as well as some parets that teh aveage buyer can't understand, like teh hard plastic dash bits that are painted body color. THat's part of the style and I think they are cool, but some people coming from a, say, VW, will wonder why so hard? thats' not crap, just a difference in customer expectations.

Seriously, other than the automatic transmissions (which teh vast majority were sold with), there simply aren't things that regualrly go wrong with them. And I again dare anyoen to come over and point out where mine is "crap." i dint' go looking for a long time to find teh one that I thoguht woudl last a long time. I simply bought the first 5 speed one I drove. I've hauled large amounts of lumber (everything I built my deck with, from 12-16 ft 2x6s to the concrete pilings), to 1200 lbs of bagged crused rock (that's over a half ton), I've autocrossed, driven from Baltimore to Maine and down to Orlando.
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Old 10-26-2005, 07:29 PM   #72
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ChrisV, again, your knowledge, wow. And that part about the rust is very truthful, moreso in the northern states/canada, where the roads pratically get covered in salt all winter long. Salt + Car = Rust
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Old 10-26-2005, 09:50 PM   #73
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ChrisV, again, your knowledge, wow. And that part about the rust is very truthful, moreso in the northern states/canada, where the roads pratically get covered in salt all winter long. Salt + Car = Rust

yeah, exactly. my dad and I can always tell where an older car is from based on how much rust there is on it.
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Old 10-26-2005, 09:53 PM   #74
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yeah, exactly. my dad and I can always tell where an older car is from based on how much rust there is on it.


we have one dealer in town - AutoGallery - the common word is that they bring in "Easter Babies" - meaning vehicles from down east, ontario and quebec, where the absolutely pour the salt down on the roads all winter...the undercarriage and wheelwells are always severly rusted.


i love undercarriage coating - definitely paid the 250$ for that
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Old 10-26-2005, 11:50 PM   #75
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yeah, like I said, teh automatics, sourced throught the minivan parts bin from Mitsubishi, are full of the same issues they had in the minivans. And from what I've found out, it'sa case of recommending the wrong fluids, causing seal and pressure valve problems that literally destroy the transmissions. of course, I have the 5 speed manual, so I don't have those issues.

As far as ither things, no serious recalls after teh first year, and I havne't seen anyone on teh PT forums complaining about trim falling off or any other little problems that "crap" cars would have.

Again, 800k of them sold, and many, MANY recommendations by owners to others to buy them (how much of that do you see happening with, say, Sebrings, or even GM vehciles liek Azteks?), and owners clubs worldwide with growing membership.

As for "quality>" ratings of say, 3 out of 5, the cars are dirt cheap (the base level is $14k...) and most parts are unique to the PT, meaning something ahs to give somewhere. A few casting lines here and there, as well as some parets that teh aveage buyer can't understand, like teh hard plastic dash bits that are painted body color. THat's part of the style and I think they are cool, but some people coming from a, say, VW, will wonder why so hard? thats' not crap, just a difference in customer expectations.

Seriously, other than the automatic transmissions (which teh vast majority were sold with), there simply aren't things that regualrly go wrong with them. And I again dare anyoen to come over and point out where mine is "crap." i dint' go looking for a long time to find teh one that I thoguht woudl last a long time. I simply bought the first 5 speed one I drove. I've hauled large amounts of lumber (everything I built my deck with, from 12-16 ft 2x6s to the concrete pilings), to 1200 lbs of bagged crused rock (that's over a half ton), I've autocrossed, driven from Baltimore to Maine and down to Orlando.


I hear you there. I never once said the whole brand is crap. Just our experience with that one vehicle was horrible and still is (the T & C). I heard about the wrong fluid thing but that didnt fix the problem in our 2nd tranny we had in the T & C (on its third right now, the 2nd and 3rd were/are using the "Correct" fluid too). So I call mostly BS on that generalization by people. There's just shome shoddy craftsmanship on hardware somewhere in that tranny.
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