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Old 04-15-2005, 05:13 AM   #46
Wally
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Are you patronising me?


The Mira was the first thing that came to mind that would require quite a bit of nous to modify in order to accomodate a V8. I think form the link you can see why.


And you are right 30 years of seeing smallish cars getting a V8 transplant is so ho hum. I much prefer seeing someone take a car and upgrade it to the best it can be, without wholesale changes that make it reminiscent or distant memory of the factory original and should disqualify it from being considered one. Sure whack in new motor or whatever, but it's hardly rocket science and at the end of the day you have a non homologated, unroadworthy car that has buggerall resale value (at least in Oz it's the case)
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Old 04-15-2005, 03:43 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
No you haven't. If you have the experience in doing it, you don't MAKE the kinds of statments you make. I don't think you know one end of a ring spanner to the other. I think you are a google mechanic.


Said it before, And I'll say it again. F*ck you.

Quote:
Look here's a pic of a Grand Am from the net, its sure is a beast. Now I have posted a pic from the web I can call myself an expert and be all knowing.

Here's a picture of an aussie Xy Falcon from the web.



Quite the beast, isn't it? I can sure see why all the kids down under go nuts over such a virile car...

Listen, you POS. The pics posted were to prove your crap about the chassis can't take it, you need engineering, etc, to be the total crock of shit they are. You made a f*cking statment of supposed fact, and all I had to do was post pictures of inexpensive projects that have been completed to prove you f*cking wrong.

Doesn't matter whether *I* built those cars, people I knew built them, or I just found them on the web (which was the case for that Cavalier). ALL of them prove your inane comments wrong. And now you're no less of a whiny bitch than the typical teenage loser that we get here that argues with everyon who as actual experience.
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Old 04-15-2005, 03:46 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
Are you patronising me?


The Mira was the first thing that came to mind that would require quite a bit of nous to modify in order to accomodate a V8. I think form the link you can see why.


And you are right 30 years of seeing smallish cars getting a V8 transplant is so ho hum. I much prefer seeing someone take a car and upgrade it to the best it can be, without wholesale changes that make it reminiscent or distant memory of the factory original and should disqualify it from being considered one. Sure whack in new motor or whatever, but it's hardly rocket science and at the end of the day you have a non homologated, unroadworthy car that has buggerall resale value (at least in Oz it's the case)

No, patronizing was never has and never will be in my agenda.

Have you ever seen a show called "Monster Garage"? The host of the show Is Jesse James, a very well known custom motorcycle builder. What they do is they take 5 or 6 guys that are average mechanics and maybe one specialist in a certain field to build a "Monster Machine". The idea is to take a completely wild idea and just run with it. Not to sound anti-engineer and this is not a flame, but those who come on the show whom are engineers usually do the worst. They over think every situation and use math to conclude that certain things will not work. Jesse James motto is "just build it and see if it works, if it doesn't try another idea, because the time that you spent doing the math could have been used to see if your idea would physically work". I'll give you an example..

They had this one build where they were turning a limousine-like vehicle into a tree stump splitter. Which is basically a hydraulic arm that pushes a tree stump onto a sharp wedge that splits the log. There was a guy on the show who was a race engineer and drew up some diagrams and math to conclude that the hydraulic cylinders power was not enough to move the vehicle. He was yelled at by Jesse James who said "Who cares about the math, just build it". Turns out the cylinders were powerful enough to move the car.

Now I know you may be thinking that these cars can't be safe if they were built by a few maverick mechanics who think they can be engineers. Well I'll let you know that they have built a rocket powered Toyota Celica, an El Camino figure 8 racer(basically a crash derby), a drag racing ambulance vehicle, a NASCAR racer, and a twin V8, super charged tractor puller. Jesse James has driven ALL of the vehicles himself in which he could have been seriously injured. He crashed in both the NASCAR racer and the El Camino, but because these maverick mechanics used common sense in installing roll cages, safety harness`, and making good welds. All Jesse James ever got was a broken ankle in the NASCAR racer, and he was just winded when he t-boned a larger 4-door sedan in the Camino racer.

Maybe its a clash of culture, but a lot of people seem to like to try crazy things like putting jet engines in cars or V8's in imports that weigh next to nothing. Keeping the stock integrity of a car can be fun. Especially when you modify an engine that no one else has ever thought about modifying. Like V6 Camaro and Mustang racers. But it never hurts to keep an open mind that creating a V8 compact car for under $2000 can still be just as fun as modifying an already existing engine. Sure putting a V8 in a car that never had one will lower the resale value, so will driving it off the lot and installing custom modifications. Why should you let something such as the value of a car divert you from having fun. I don't know what you mean by "un-roadworthy" but I tell you I've seen that V8 Grand Am operate flawlessly under normal driving and full load.

No one ever said that makes you a rocket scientist or an engineer because you throw a V8 in a car. Not having a degree and still accomplishing the job only sweetens the fruit of your labor. Many people take pride in fixing things that they were never fully trained to fix or modify. I've performed a few handful of engine swaps to Civic's, 240sx's, and AE86's. I wouldn't consider myself anything more than an automotive enthusiast. I did them all with little assistance, trial and error, and a garage full of tools.

You may not be a rocket scientist or an engineer by civilian standards, but the guy thats started engineering and rocket science started off just like people like ChrisV with an idea. You surely didn't learn everything you know because it was written in a textbook the day man became erect? Someone, somewhere, in some point in time, had to do the same thing these guys are doing in their garages. Not every great invention was created by an engineer. Encouraging small projects like this could be the door to discovering a new design attribute in cars. You never know....
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Old 04-15-2005, 03:49 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
And you are right 30 years of seeing smallish cars getting a V8 transplant is so ho hum. I much prefer seeing someone take a car and upgrade it to the best it can be, without wholesale changes that make it reminiscent or distant memory of the factory original and should disqualify it from being considered one. Sure whack in new motor or whatever, but it's hardly rocket science and at the end of the day you have a non homologated, unroadworthy car that has buggerall resale value (at least in Oz it's the case)

Your last sentece says it all.

It's not necessarily the case here.

And two, if you build a car for resale, it means yo dont' ****ing want it to begin with. Build a car that YOU want, not that someone ELSE wasnts or says is possible. You're too ****ing stupid to think that way.

And that crap about unroadworthy? F*CKING RETARDED, Wally! THTA:"T the kind of ignorant insulting crap that makes you a f*cking POS. And since you're unrepentant, I will insult you in return as loing as you're here.

Oh, and

Quote:
I much prefer seeing someone take a car and upgrade it to the best it can be, without wholesale changes that make it reminiscent or distant memory of the factory original and should disqualify it from being considered one.

WHO F*CKING CARES IF IT'S FACTORY ORIGINAL? I couldn't care LESS if it could be considered factory original. They aren't f*cking religious idols! They aren't built by gods. YOU build cars that way if you want. But if you want someone else to build it YOUR way, PAY FOR IT YOURSELF.

Jesus. People have called me arrogant, but seriously Wally, you take the f*cking cake when it comes to arrogance and elitist bullsh!t.
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Old 04-15-2005, 04:01 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMer
Maybe its a clash of culture, but a lot of people seem to like to try crazy things like putting jet engines in cars or V8's in imports that weigh next to nothing. Keeping the stock integrity of a car can be fun. Especially when you modify an engine that no one else has ever thought about modifying. Like V6 Camaro and Mustang racers. But it never hurts to keep an open mind that creating a V8 compact car for under $2000 can still be just as fun as modifying an already existing engine. Sure putting a V8 in a car that never had one will lower the resale value, so will driving it off the lot and installing custom modifications. Why should you let something such as the value of a car divert you from having fun.

you hurt the value of a STOCK car simply by driving it. it's clled depreciation and it affects all newer cars. And it affects well-engineered luxury and high priced sports cars the most. Funny how that works.

As for ruining the value of a CHEAP car with an engine swap? My V8 RX7 was worth more AFTER the swap than before. In stock form, a 100k mile '86 RX7 was worth about $2500 on the open market. by spending a couple grand on the V8 and the conversion, it was actually worth $6-7k on the open market (which is what I got for it 5 years after building it...). Yes, often the cars aren't worth as much as you have into them, but they are almost ALWAYS worth more than a stocker of the same year and condition.


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No one ever said that makes you a rocket scientist or an engineer because you throw a V8 in a car. Not having a degree and still accomplishing the job only sweetens the fruit of your labor. Many people take pride in fixing things that they were never fully trained to fix or modify.

Ding! And it's even MORE sweet when people say it can't be doine, or that it'll cost you tens of thousands of dollars and a degree to build it. My actual paying jobs for years involved fixing things that people with degrees screwed up or couldn't complete.

Quote:
You may not be a rocket scientist or an engineer by civilian standards, but the guy thats started engineering and rocket science started off just like people like ChrisV with an idea. You surely didn't learn everything you know because it was written in a textbook the day man became erect? Someone, somewhere, in some point in time, had to do the same thing these guys are doing in their garages. Not every great invention was created by an engineer. Encouraging small projects like this could be the door to discovering a new design attribute in cars. You never know....

Ding, again! Though most of us don't do it to invent anything, we do it for the fun of doing something ourselves and building something different. Sometimes by combining the things we like from a number of different sources, sometimes by making something completely new added to something that already exists.

And I would certainly never say, "well I don't like those cars so YOU shouldn't build one." That would make my confidence/arrogance in knowledge look exceedingly tame. Apparently, however, it's easy for Wally.
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Old 04-15-2005, 04:25 PM   #51
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Now, Now ChrisV...simmer down. Getting into the boxing ring with a man whose choosing to tie his hands behind his back won't solve the situation, nor will it make you any bigger of a man. Words were exchanged, and opinions differed. Due to a conflict of interest I'd rather not see this powder keg roll any closer to an open flame, but I feel that I'm inept with ability to stop such an occurrence. In all efforts to not incite blame upon anyone, this is really childish. You two are obviously good at what you do, just because you disagree with each other should be no reason that an armed battle shall ensue.

Anywhos, I have a long road trip down to U of I. I'd like to have seen this settle down by the time I return..
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Old 04-15-2005, 10:29 PM   #52
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You're passionate ChrisV, I'll give you that.

Yes DSMer we get Monster Garage here and I marvel at their initiative.

Now Chrisv, my boy:

Why all the degree snobbery stuff? I inhabit quite a few boards where there are kids through to fossilised 40+ yearolds. No one carries on about their qualifications and whether they have more expertise or experience than others. They just argue out differences of opinions, flame each other now and again and get on with things. Hell on one board even the head engineer for a well known performance firm gets the rounds now and again, but he doesn't revert to name calling, even if he is wrong.

Surely if someone doesn't want to carry on about his achievements, it is a bit impudent to assume he is incompetent, let alone a (sic) "POS , F*CKING RETARDED, arrogant, elitist bullsh!t, whiny bitch , typical teenage loser, blah, blah, blah... ".

Quote:
And since you're unrepentant, I will insult you in return as loing as you're here
.

So I am to lower myself to a lowest common denominator and emulate you or better still prostrate myself to gain your approval and avoid you flaming me? I may as well start speaking ebonics, grab a spray can and deface walls if I have to sink to gutter level.

To quote your own favourite cliche "sigh". How old are you again? Do you put up with that sought of language/behaviour from your kids? Do you still beat your wife?

How does one spell tourette's ?

Here's an idea... how about you actually learn the proper automotive terms and fundamentals (instead of cliches) so you can speak universally with the world and feel less intimidated by people who value an education and common decency. I reckon I could take one of the veteran 15 yearolds from one of the other boards and put him up against you and he would nail you everytime in generic automotive knowledge (i.e. sans brands)
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Old 04-15-2005, 10:52 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by DSMer
Now I know you may be thinking that these cars can't be safe if they were built by a few maverick mechanics who think they can be engineers

Now this, in particular, is where you are misinterpreting my thoughts. Maybe mavericks is the wrong word, but of course people can make wholesale changes to a car and meet with success. But, and it's a big but, do you really think someone who has the ability to do this would be coming to a board, that discourages indepth discussions, asking about the plausability of of completely changing a drivetrain setup, engine type and all the latent things that go with it, would have that expertise?

There is a big difference between an engineered chassis, engineered stuff bolted to it and a fibreglass canopied body ressembling a production car and an actual street car that has been extensively modified and possibly weakened. And when I say engineered I mean using sound engineering principles.
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Old 04-17-2005, 06:17 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
No you haven't. If you have the experience in doing it, you don't MAKE the kinds of statments you make. I don't think you know one end of a ring spanner to the other. I think you are a google mechanic.

Look here's a pic of a Grand Am from the net, its sure is a beast. Now I have posted a pic from the web I can call myself an expert and be all knowing. My next staggering achievemnet will be to advise memebers to "pull codes" from their ECU's.


Let me say this. ChrisV does google alot... and I'm damn glad he does. He does research and gives the best possible answer to a situation as he possibly can instead of giving a bias opinion based souly on his own thoughts. I think ChrisV has the most experience of anyone here and he really knows his way around vehicles. Put that experience and expertise togethor with research and BAM you can go miles with that. To basically say he is limited to google is a pretty out there statement. Like I just said, his expertise and taking time to do research and think it over, then post his thoughts make for well rounded posts.
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Old 04-17-2005, 11:12 PM   #55
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heh I was just giving ChrisV back some of his own. If you look at the first sentence of the quote you used, you will see it's strikingly familiar with one he penned to flame me in the first instance. I just thought what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

If you also looked at earlier posts in the thread you will also note that I do not have a problem with him being top dog.....a reason I have refrained from burying him, if only for his disappointing vulgar language on this occasion. And you are right he is very good at sourcing information.

Flame away ChrisV if you dare.
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Old 10-18-2005, 06:02 AM   #56
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I myself am going to put a 350 Rocket in a 96 Grand AM GT, i am using a Ford 9" out of a Lincoln Versailles. This is actually narrower than the factory rear end of the car. One thing you might want to check out is go to a local body shop that does frame straightening, and ask if you could get a copy of the blueprint of the frame. They should have a Mitchell or some other brand of information that has all the measurements of the vehicle, for frame straightening purposes. Our local body shop frame guy just gave me a page out of his book. Also when you add some beef to the vehicle, start at the rocker panels, this is the strength of the uni body frame style. Add super structure to it, then add necessities accordingly. Competition Engineering has a nice kit that is a 4 link, or ladder bars, wheel tub kits, and other nice pieces to consider for this project. Also check out some cirlce burner companies for ideas, and parts availability. I hope this helps. PS It is nice to know that other people are not satisfied either with what is being produced. I myself had no desire to buy a car produced after 1988 until the new Pontiac GTO came out.
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Old 10-18-2005, 06:04 AM   #57
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I myself am going to put a 350 Rocket in a 96 Grand AM GT, i am using a Ford 9" out of a Lincoln Versailles. This is actually narrower than the factory rear end of the car. One thing you might want to check out is go to a local body shop that does frame straightening, and ask if you could get a copy of the blueprint of the frame. They should have a Mitchell or some other brand of information that has all the measurements of the vehicle, for frame straightening purposes. Our local body shop frame guy just gave me a page out of his book. Also when you add some beef to the vehicle, start at the rocker panels, this is the strength of the uni body frame style. Add super structure to it, then add necessities accordingly. Competition Engineering has a nice kit that is a 4 link, or ladder bars, wheel tub kits, and other nice pieces to consider for this project. Also check out some cirlce burner companies for ideas, and parts availability. I hope this helps. PS It is nice to know that other people are not satisfied either with what is being produced. I myself had no desire to buy a car produced after 1988 until the new Pontiac GTO came out.
Dont ya just looove the thread revival we have going here?...to be honest mate, you'd have been better starting a nice new thread

Still, look on the bright side, ya could have revived one from 2002
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Old 10-18-2005, 06:08 AM   #58
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How do I go about swapping a Skyline engine into my car and make it rear wheel drive?

It would be a lot cheaper just to do a Chevy small block/ th-350 and 12-bolt rear swap. Though it would still be a pain in the ass.
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Old 10-18-2005, 07:15 AM   #59
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Wow, it's a good thing I didn't stumble across this thread in the thick of things. ChrisV had to blow off some steam...I understand, it's hard to deal with morons. Guys are posting pics of some of the most hideous cars I've ever seen. People are posting pics of anemic TPS 350's...if it's even that...it's probably a junkyard TPS 305...oh yeah, and I love the way the blower was bolted on just for looks...no need to hook that up. All in all, this was a pretty funny thread for me....

Oh yeah, I love the references to people talking about Grand Am chassis' being strong enough to run 6's...lol, I guess he's never heard of a tube chassis car.
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Old 10-18-2005, 07:13 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Sick88Tbird
Wow, it's a good thing I didn't stumble across this thread in the thick of things. ChrisV had to blow off some steam...I understand, it's hard to deal with morons. Guys are posting pics of some of the most hideous cars I've ever seen. People are posting pics of anemic TPS 350's...if it's even that...it's probably a junkyard TPS 305...oh yeah, and I love the way the blower was bolted on just for looks...no need to hook that up. All in all, this was a pretty funny thread for me....

?

The point was bolting 350s into a FWD chassis by converting it to RWD, being successful, and not having to have an engineering degree to do it. the Cavalier that I posted converted to RWD was using a ZZ4 crate engine (you know what that is, right?). the RWD CRX I posted was built by a frind of mine for cheap, and yes, ti was a carbed 350, but it IS a 350, and farily stout. IN a CRX. I'm not sure about the Grand Am that DSM'r posted, but the mounts and fabrication necessary to do the job proves his point. Being insulting about the cars posted don't invalidate the information or sentiments of the posts they were in.
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