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Old 05-20-2005, 01:32 AM   #1
Pinstriper38
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Engine rebuild

I'm rebuilding a small block Chrysler V8, and I have a question, how hard should it be to turn the motor over without the heads on? It's been rebuilt from the ground up(all new bearings, piston rings etc...) I torqued all the mains and the rod caps and I think something went VERY wrong with it because I need a 3 ft long breaker-bar for leverage to turn it over. This is only the second time I've done a rebuild so i'm not sure what to expect but I dont think it should be so hard to turn over. please help.
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Old 05-20-2005, 01:41 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinstriper38
I'm rebuilding a small block Chrysler V8, and I have a question, how hard should it be to turn the motor over without the heads on? It's been rebuilt from the ground up(all new bearings, piston rings etc...) I torqued all the mains and the rod caps and I think something went VERY wrong with it because I need a 3 ft long breaker-bar for leverage to turn it over. This is only the second time I've done a rebuild so i'm not sure what to expect but I dont think it should be so hard to turn over. please help.

yeah, that sounds bad... did you oil the pistons/rings before installing? (i have to ask) did you try to turn it over before installing the pistons? what i'm wondering is at what point did it get hard to turn? i have a spec for it at home, but i'm not home right now...
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Old 05-20-2005, 05:02 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinstriper38
I'm rebuilding a small block Chrysler V8, and I have a question, how hard should it be to turn the motor over without the heads on? It's been rebuilt from the ground up(all new bearings, piston rings etc...) I torqued all the mains and the rod caps and I think something went VERY wrong with it because I need a 3 ft long breaker-bar for leverage to turn it over. This is only the second time I've done a rebuild so i'm not sure what to expect but I dont think it should be so hard to turn over. please help.
Oh joy, someone ruining something that I'd love to get my hands on. Just kidding.

I assume you gapped the rings properly (if this was the problem I doubt you'd have gotten the pistons in the bores to start with) and I assume you plastigauged ATLEAST all the main crank journals and had suffient clearance.

Well, wait. You know what? I've seen this happen so much and it can be avoided. Let me tell you a tip that will allow this to never happen again. Torque all your mains, spin the crank a few revolutions to check for binding. Do the same EACH time you install a rod on the crank. I don't care how many books you come across that say hold up on torquing the rod bolts until you have all the rods in - do it one at a time, as you go, and spin the crank a few turns to make sure you have no binding. Do this and it will NEVER happen to you again because if something is wrong you'll see what it is.

Now... I'm going to go ahead and say your problem is the rods are in backwards. You have a big chamfer on one side of the big end of the rod on one side, and the other side has a smaller chamfer. The big chamfer faces the crank cheek (to clear the radii ground in the crank) and the small chamfer faces the other rod. Now, to make sure this happens this is what you need to check for. All of the rods on the left side (driver's side) should have there "mark" (little raised "-" basically, on the rod right above the big end of the rod) facing to the FRONT of the engine. On the right side of the engine (passanger's side) all of those marks should face the BACK of the engine. I'm going to say this is the cause for you're trouble - this isnt done the way I said. So check this and let me know what you come up with.

Last edited by DodgeRida67 : 05-21-2005 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 05-20-2005, 10:08 PM   #4
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Umm, DodgeRida i think you got mixed up there, you said the the left side (drivers side) and then you said the right side (drivers side) so one is really the passenger side and the other is the drivers side, which way are you looking at it to detemine this, the front or from inside? Thought i'd point that out and ask.
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Old 05-20-2005, 11:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car_crazy89
Umm, DodgeRida i think you got mixed up there, you said the the left side (drivers side) and then you said the right side (drivers side) so one is really the passenger side and the other is the drivers side, which way are you looking at it to detemine this, the front or from inside? Thought i'd point that out and ask.

well, half of the engine is from england...
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Old 05-20-2005, 11:47 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by dodger65
well, half of the engine is from england...
Haha well then that makes sense. Thanx Dodger for clearing that up, now he can work on both the drivers side AND the drivers side.
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Old 05-21-2005, 12:01 AM   #7
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Sorry, brain fart. I edited it now.
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Old 05-21-2005, 05:00 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeRida67
Sorry, brain fart. I edited it now.
I did plastigage it, and im ALMOST 100% sure i put the pistons in the right way, I also checked the ring gaps, they were ok. The pistons had a notch cut in the top that was supposed to face the front of the engine, which I did. however, say i mixed up the pistons out of their order they were in the engine, could that be my problem?? also, at the bottom of the rods there were these marks, instead of something simple like 1,2,3,4,5,6...etc., they had the wierd things like half moons, clovers, boxes and the haynes manual mentioned nothing of this, so i had no idea what the exact order to put the pistons in.(i assumed it didnt matter) by the way, i did oil it up before and after i put them in, and it had always been hard to turn over since i torqued it and put it together. Since it was so hard I loosened the main & rod caps and oiled them well which did help a little bit. i'll be takoing the rod caps off to make sure theyre on right although i did not separate the rods from the pistons, but if i mixed them up DodgeRida is probably right.
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Old 05-21-2005, 05:29 AM   #9
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$h*t!

The rods are in as DodgeRida described.... the bearings are a little shiny (by shiny i mean when i got them they had a dull look to them) by the oiling holes except for one, cylinders 7/8, where it was shiny all over but by the oil holes. I suppose now need new bearings because these had fine dirt in them??
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Old 05-21-2005, 07:56 AM   #10
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Check the bore size as well, and the piston size. You may be putting the pistons into bores that are too small.
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Old 05-21-2005, 03:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinstriper38
I did plastigage it, and im ALMOST 100% sure i put the pistons in the right way, I also checked the ring gaps, they were ok. The pistons had a notch cut in the top that was supposed to face the front of the engine, which I did. however, say i mixed up the pistons out of their order they were in the engine, could that be my problem?? also, at the bottom of the rods there were these marks, instead of something simple like 1,2,3,4,5,6...etc., they had the wierd things like half moons, clovers, boxes and the haynes manual mentioned nothing of this, so i had no idea what the exact order to put the pistons in.(i assumed it didnt matter) by the way, i did oil it up before and after i put them in, and it had always been hard to turn over since i torqued it and put it together. Since it was so hard I loosened the main & rod caps and oiled them well which did help a little bit. i'll be takoing the rod caps off to make sure theyre on right although i did not separate the rods from the pistons, but if i mixed them up DodgeRida is probably right.
If you didnt seperate the rods and pistons then the pistons have to go in the exact same hole that they came out of or else you're going to have major trouble. One trouble is the trouble you are having now.

About these numbers... You can find them at the parting line of the big end of the rod. The parting line being where the cap and rod meet on one end. Also, where that number is, the number should be facing the closest engine block skirt, or else it's in wrong.

I say if you put them in the right hole, facing the right direction (which would be the notch on the pistons facing foward since you didnt seperate the rods and pistons) it will work out. By the way, 1-3-5-7 on the left side (driver's side) 2-4-6-8 on the right side (passanger's side).

It just so happens that I'm building a big block chrysler and I have the piston and rod assembles out on my assembly table in order as we speak. If the batteries in my camera will allow, I'm going to take a picture for you.

Last edited by DodgeRida67 : 05-21-2005 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 05-21-2005, 03:46 PM   #12
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This should explain it. Print this out and keep it handy when you put it back togethor. Keep in mind they are upside-down so the ones on the left go on the right and the ones on the right go on the left...





About the bearings. If they aren't scratched but just brighter than before then you're in OK shape to use them.
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Old 05-21-2005, 03:54 PM   #13
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These are where the numbers are. They should be on the same side (theres a number in this location on the rod and on the cap. They should be stacked over each other.) and they should also face to the closest skirt. For example, the numbers on the left side piston/rod assemblies should face the left side of the motor. The ones on the right should face the side side of the motor.





So orientation is way more than putting the notches on the pistons to the front. The notches in the pistons face the front, the notches on the rods on the left side of the motor face the front, the notches on the rods on the right side of the motor face the back, and they have to be in the right hole, and the numbers on the rods & caps facing the closest skirt.



I'd like to throw in that possibly within a week's time I'll be assembling my engine and if you will hold off until I assemble mine I'll take a picture for you while it's assembled and then you cant go wrong.

Last edited by DodgeRida67 : 05-21-2005 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 05-21-2005, 06:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeRida67
These are where the numbers are. They should be on the same side (theres a number in this location on the rod and on the cap. They should be stacked over each other.) and they should also face to the closest skirt. For example, the numbers on the left side piston/rod assemblies should face the left side of the motor. The ones on the right should face the side side of the motor.





So orientation is way more than putting the notches on the pistons to the front. The notches in the pistons face the front, the notches on the rods on the left side of the motor face the front, the notches on the rods on the right side of the motor face the back, and they have to be in the right hole, and the numbers on the rods & caps facing the closest skirt.



I'd like to throw in that possibly within a week's time I'll be assembling my engine and if you will hold off until I assemble mine I'll take a picture for you while it's assembled and then you cant go wrong.
no, you see, THERE ARE NO NUMBERS, just wierd shapes and im not sure what order the "shapes are supposed to be
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Old 05-21-2005, 06:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinstriper38
no, you see, THERE ARE NO NUMBERS, just wierd shapes and im not sure what order the "shapes are supposed to be
Well I don't know what to tell you then.
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