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Old 06-01-2005, 06:19 AM   #1
97Talonchik
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Question Fuel Pump Problem?

Hello. I have a 1997 Eagle Talon ESI, and a while back had to get a new fuel pump put in it. Today I took it to get the Emissions Tested on it and it failed the test stating EVAP System Small Leak Detected (which albeit could be about a million things). Right now, it is sitting at the repair shop waiting to get looked at. My question is, could the fuel pump be causing this problem? I know in the Turbos of the same year it is located under the back seat behind the driver, is this also true for non-turbos? Something has been leaking there and I don't want to assume it is the fuel pump if perhaps it is not. I appreciate any help on this...

Eagle Talon ESI 2.0 L DOHC, 4 cylinder automatic transmission

Recent repairs include:
New fuel pump- 2003
Engine replaced (used)- 2004
Starter replaced- 2004

Last edited by 97Talonchik : 06-01-2005 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 06-02-2005, 12:43 AM   #2
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Most late model cars have the fuel pump in the gas tank. If you have seen a leak in the fuel system then that is probably the cause of the fault. It might be the rubber type line going from the frame to the tank or it might be the metal line rusting away. Or not.
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Old 06-02-2005, 01:42 AM   #3
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or some genius friend thought he'd do you a favour and make sure those huge subwoofers dont fall out of your car so he whips out his trusty self tapping screws and screws them right into your gas tank and because it's a VW corrado it's 700$ from the dealer, or when they put your new fuel pump in, they left a line off, evap codes can be caused by a leak in the fuel system, most off the times it's from the people who go to gas up at the pumps and take the cap off only to realize the tank is on the wrong side so they get in car fire it up and go to the other pump with the gass cap off, that will throw a check engine light and give you an evap emmissions code. i would check with the shop that did the fuel pump job, but if you noticed the leak after the job was done and didn't go back to get it taken care, they might not warrenty there work so....good luck oh and by reading your post farther, the used engine job you had put in was most recent and they could have left something off.the options here are to much to type out so hope any of it helps
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Old 06-02-2005, 05:35 PM   #4
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Ok, I took it back to the repair shop that put in the pump and they said they would look into it. I picked it back up yesterday and they said the EVAP code was cause by the gas cap, so they replaced that. I know I have to wait for a few days for the drive cycles to reset, but the stupid check engine light came back on and has yet to turn back off. When I asked them if they checked out the pump, they didn't answer me, but stated the leak on my backseat was probably from water (umm....right) that settled in the seat and evaporated. Funny, I've never seen water turn a sheet to dust before. I think I'll just run my car off the cliff, it'd probably be cheaper, lol.
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Old 06-02-2005, 09:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97Talonchik
I think I'll just run my car off the cliff, it'd probably be cheaper, lol.
Sorry to hear about your problem. Well it depends on the kind of insurance you got on your car whether or not its worth running off a cliff, and if you plan on doing it then try not to spread the word lol. You could always hide it somewhere and report it stolen then collect insurance and part out the car afterwards. I know, i'mno help, just trying to lighten the mood.
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Old 06-02-2005, 11:06 PM   #6
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LOL....all I can do is laugh about. Hey I have acts of God on my insurance...say hmmm if I was to happen to accidentally be chopping down a tree and ooops it fell on my car....
Seriously, I tried to talk to repair shop into "driving it away" for me....they didn't take me serious though.
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Old 06-02-2005, 11:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97Talonchik
LOL....all I can do is laugh about. Hey I have acts of God on my insurance...say hmmm if I was to happen to accidentally be chopping down a tree and ooops it fell on my car....
Seriously, I tried to talk to repair shop into "driving it away" for me....they didn't take me serious though.
Well i'd do it for you, as long as you gave me enough time to get far enough away . Its good you can laugh about it though, good luck with the tree idea lol.
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Old 06-02-2005, 11:26 PM   #8
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I wonder what would happen if I accidentally ripped out the OBD-II system, lol. I'm kidding.
Ok but for real, the check engine light is back on again, so apparently the "diagnostic" that was run on it was wrong. Question though, how long is a typical drive cycle reset? I suppose it depends on the car but if the problem was fixed the light should have come on and gone back off right?
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Old 06-03-2005, 10:11 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97Talonchik
I wonder what would happen if I accidentally ripped out the OBD-II system, lol. I'm kidding.
Ok but for real, the check engine light is back on again, so apparently the "diagnostic" that was run on it was wrong. Question though, how long is a typical drive cycle reset? I suppose it depends on the car but if the problem was fixed the light should have come on and gone back off right?
I would disconenct the battery for about 20 mins that will kill the power to the computer an it would purge the codes Thing is if the light comes back on They didnt fix your problem. An if your luck is like mine then the tree idea.. I wouldnt go with it would end up landing on your house or your neighbors car. I am in the middle of a war with my olds an I am to the point of driving it into Lake Mead (Yes I am in Lost Wages NV) lol
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Old 06-03-2005, 11:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97Talonchik
I wonder what would happen if I accidentally ripped out the OBD-II system, lol. I'm kidding.
Ok but for real, the check engine light is back on again, so apparently the "diagnostic" that was run on it was wrong. Question though, how long is a typical drive cycle reset? I suppose it depends on the car but if the problem was fixed the light should have come on and gone back off right?

as far as i know, if the problem was fixed, the light shouldn't have come on in the first place. diconnecting the battery won't clear codes in an obdII car, either. "small leak detected" doesn't necessarily mean fuel leak. it could have a vapor leak in one of the hoses or a hose disconnected or a bad fuel tank pressure sensor or even a bad wire. the shop just needs to look harder. (it could even be a bad seal betw/ the fuel pump and the tank)
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Old 06-04-2005, 06:13 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodger65
as far as i know, if the problem was fixed, the light shouldn't have come on in the first place. diconnecting the battery won't clear codes in an obdII car, either. "small leak detected" doesn't necessarily mean fuel leak. it could have a vapor leak in one of the hoses or a hose disconnected or a bad fuel tank pressure sensor or even a bad wire. the shop just needs to look harder. (it could even be a bad seal betw/ the fuel pump and the tank)

I told the you know whats to friggen check the pump but they didn't. "SUPPOSEDLY" they ran a diagnostic on it (which I paid for so they better have) and it returned the code for the gas cap...however...I didn't think gas caps friggen gave codes to computers....but what do I know, I'm not ASE certified . Yeah, he's right, all disconnecting the battery will do is irritate me with a loud alarm like noise (yeah what's up with that, lol). I'm sure the car has been sufficiently driven long enough to have the drive cycle reset and it was also driven at highway speeds, so that is not an issue. They just need to friggen do their job and fix it right the first time.
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Old 06-04-2005, 01:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97Talonchik
...and it returned the code for the gas cap...however...I didn't think gas caps friggen gave codes to computers....

gas caps don't give codes, that's the pressure sensor i was referring to. if the gas cap is loose or off, or if there is some other way that the proper pressure isn't being maintained (cracked hose, etc), then the pressure sensor will tell the 'puter to set a code. have them check the tank vent hoses. if one was loose or off, that would cause that code, too.
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Old 06-04-2005, 08:43 PM   #13
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Yeah, I just found this when looking for service bulletins, maybe print and hand to them.
EVAP System - Leak Detection Pump Misdiagnosis
NUMBER: 18-01-00
GROUP: Vehicle Performance
DATE: Feb. 4, 2000
SUBJECT:
Misdiagnosed Leak Detection Pump Systems With DTC P1494, P0442, P0455, OR P0456
MODELS:
1997 - 2000 (AB) Ram Van
1997 - 2000 (AN) Dakota
1997 - 2000 (BR/BE) Ram truck
1998 - 2000 (DN) Durango
1997 - 2000 (FJ) Avenger/Sebring/Talon
1997 - 2000 (JA) Cirrus/Stratus/Breeze
1997 - 2000 (JX) Sebring Convertible
1997 - 2000 (LH) Concorde/Intrepid/LHS/3OOMNision
1997 - 2000 (NS) Town & Country/CaravanNoyager
1997 - 2000 (PL) Neon
1997 - 2000 (PR) Prowler
1997 - 2000 (SR) ViperNiper GIS
1997 - 2000 (TJ) Wrangler
1999 - 2000 (WJ) Grand Cherokee
1997 - 2000 (XJ) Cherokee
1997 - 1998 (ZJ) GrandCherokee
DISCUSSION:
During evaporative system diagnosis, Leak Detection Pumps have mistakenly been replaced. A thorough inspection for pinched, kinked, or disconnected supply vacuum lines (as currently listed in the Powertrain Diagnostic Procedures) is a critical step in diagnosing DTC P1494 (LDP SW OR MECHANICAL FAULT). Additionally, the other evaporative leak faults (DTC P0442 - SMALL LEAK, P0455 - LARGE LEAK, and P0456 - VERY SMALL LEAK) should have the supply vacuum lines examined for pinches or kinks prior to any LDP component replacement.
The supply vacuum lines should be checked from the engine compartment all the way to the fuel tank, including the LDP and purge system.
NOTE: VERIFY ALL RELATED SUPPLY VACUUM LINE ROUTINGS FOR PINCHES, KINKS, OR DISCONNECTION'S BEFORE REPLACING LDP SYSTEM COMPONENTS.
POLICY: Information Only
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Old 06-04-2005, 10:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97Talonchik
Yeah, I just found this when looking for service bulletins, maybe print and hand to them.

i'd DEFINITELY print it and hand to them...
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Old 06-04-2005, 11:21 PM   #15
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if i were you i would go back a nicely( i say nicely for a reason cuz if you come off as a real bitch and frustrate them it will only make it worse) just go back and say well my light came on again so there is another problem, so the diagnostic charge you paid should cover this trip back to them and just be honest and tell them they misdiagnosed it and would appreciate it, if it was checked again, if it were my shop youd be in the door in seconds and i would take as long as it took to fix the problem because simply put they ****ed up and suck and diagnostics, if they make you pay again then screw it, the just wanna take your money and don't care about your buisness, and if i was in that situation they would be getting a couple rocks through the windows if you came here id do it for free just to show you that there are good mechanics still out here and some of us do care,(and know how to properly fix vehicles) Karma will eventually claim them all!
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