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Old 06-08-2005, 05:06 PM   #16
StiMan
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Definately the SRT-10. I also do like the GTS, beautiful car in my opinion. I dont really like Corvettes, they just dont really appeal to me. Niether are supercars, and I would say that the Viper is more of one than the Corvette. Both are good cars, but I like the Viper more.
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Old 06-08-2005, 07:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgerforlife
i was putting that out as a comparison according to similar street popularity...
ah, maybe then. in that case the vette obviously wins...

maybe it should be cost then. $10k difference between the gt and the vette.
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Old 06-08-2005, 07:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FordFromHell351
The Dodge Viper GTS should not even be being compared to the Corvette Z06...If you put the 2 against each other the Viper would win by a long shot in the quarter mile...Now in road racing it could possibly be a different story because the Dodge Viper is heavier and cant corner as well.
You must not be talking about the "new" Z06. The 2006 Z06 will have a better power to weight ratio than the Dodge Viper...so there is a good chance that the Z06 will win in a drag race between the two. Also, the Viper has excellent cornering ability. It exceeds 1.00 g on the skidpad and does over 70 mph through the slaloms.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FordFromHell351
As for reliability, the Viper has it hands down. The Corvette feels loose and rattley, it basically feels like your driving a tin can on wheels with alot of horsepower compared to the Viper. Also, the new Z06 even with its 100hp increase, will still be far from a supercar.
From my personal experiences, I believe the Vette to have the less "rattley" ride of the two. The Viper feels like a loud, hot, tin can on wheels. The Vette's ride, especially the new one, is way more civilized than the Viper.

Where are you getting your opinions from son...


I'd prefer to own a post-2003 Viper GTS over any Vette though. But I'd take the new Z06's over a new Viper.
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Old 06-08-2005, 08:18 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bino
Someone who shelled out that much money for a car shouldn't have to be concerned about it breaking...

Sorry, that attitude is simply silly.

All cars can break, even McLaren F1s. How much you spend on it doesn't matter, ever. Even real expensive, highly engineered items can break. From helicopters to top race cars, to the space shuttle.

That's why there are authorized Porsche and Ferrari service centers...
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Old 06-08-2005, 10:24 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
Sorry, that attitude is simply silly.

All cars can break, even McLaren F1s. How much you spend on it doesn't matter, ever. Even real expensive, highly engineered items can break. From helicopters to top race cars, to the space shuttle.

That's why there are authorized Porsche and Ferrari service centers...
I think he meant that the person would be able to pay for the expenses of it breaking. I think he knew that everything breaks.
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Old 06-08-2005, 10:58 PM   #21
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Obviously things break, that wasn't my point, sometimes the people on this board take things too literally. If I purchased a Viper, and had to take it in more than once a year for anything actually broken (not general maintenance), I'd be very angry. If you're going to charge that much for a product, it'd better perform. My pickup has never required anything but general maintenance and common wear items. If something actually fritzed out and stopped working... I'd be pissed about that too... vehicles aren't cheap.
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Old 06-09-2005, 04:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bino
Obviously things break, that wasn't my point, sometimes the people on this board take things too literally. If I purchased a Viper, and had to take it in more than once a year for anything actually broken (not general maintenance), I'd be very angry.

Why do you thik 4-5 year old Ferraris still only have like 10k miles on them or less? No one wants to drive them very far because they break easily. NONE of these cars should be used as daily drivers as they are far more delicate than your basic beater. Vipers tend, like Corvettes, to be driven a LOT more than Ferraris or exotics, as they ARE more durable. But, like any performance car, they tend to be driven harder which can break things easier.

If you tried to drive a $200k race car on teh street like a daily driver, you'd break things on it within the first year, if not sooner. You aren't buying daily driver reliability for that money.

Do you understand this concept yet?


Quote:
If you're going to charge that much for a product, it'd better perform.

They DO perform. But there is more to high cost than performance. A lot of it has to do with limited production numbers. You think a one off streed rod costs $100k+ because it's as fast or handles as good as a Ferrari? the Viper has very little amortization ability and it's costs are spread over a much smaller number of vehicles, so the cost is higher just for that reason!

Do you think a prototype cost so much more than a production car because it performs that much better than a production example? Or because it's the only one?



Quote:
My pickup has never required anything but general maintenance and common wear items. If something actually fritzed out and stopped working... I'd be pissed about that too... vehicles aren't cheap.

I really don't think you have a grasp on production tolerances, useage, and amortization costs. YOu pickup was one of a few hundred thousand of that model. the PROTOTPE for that truck, with all the tooling costs, would ahve run a few million dollars. By the time the hundred thousandth example rolls off the line, the costs have been amortized out for the tooling and the facilities, and each example bears a MUCH smaller portion of the costs of building ALL of them.
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Old 06-09-2005, 05:11 PM   #23
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WOW ChrisV, thanks for the lesson. Congratulations on precisely missing the point of my post, not many people could have side stepped it so well. I will agree with the Supercar example, but everything else you were just listening to yourself talk.
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Old 06-10-2005, 12:25 AM   #24
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Both are nice cars...and both cars are fast...
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Old 06-10-2005, 01:00 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bino
WOW ChrisV, thanks for the lesson. Congratulations on precisely missing the point of my post, not many people could have side stepped it so well. I will agree with the Supercar example, but everything else you were just listening to yourself talk.

So if your point was so easily missed, maybe it wasn't stated very well.

Grow up.
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Old 06-11-2005, 11:40 PM   #26
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again, im surprised chrisv didnt just swear at a whole lot of people in this thread.......


im impressed how people actually dare insult the viper in some areas without even taking into consideration its specs.


the viper might not be the best fuel economical car out there in the world, but for a freaking 8.3 liter V10, it does more than good enough.

viper weighs too much? the new SRT-10 has a base curb weight of just above 3,300lbs.

20mpg on open roads = big success, even if it gets 12mpg otherwise (but other fast cars dont do that much better).

a skidpad of 1.05g's? thats damn good for a "heavy car". PS: FD3S's did a skidpad of around 0.95 (or 0.98, i cant remember atm).

corvette handling better than the viper? even the new Z06 still has its joke of a leaf spring suspension. when will chevy finally decide to get rid of that suspension on their #1 sports car?

this is just to get things going a bit. i hope some people educate themselves before posting next time.
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Old 06-13-2005, 02:33 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inygknok
again, im surprised chrisv didnt just swear at a whole lot of people in this thread.......

corvette handling better than the viper? even the new Z06 still has its joke of a leaf spring suspension. when will chevy finally decide to get rid of that suspension on their #1 sports car?

this is just to get things going a bit. i hope some people educate themselves before posting next time.

Speaking of educating yourself...

1st... the Corvette uses an extremely lightweight composite monoleaf that is about as high tech as suspension components get. By mounting it on the car in the center of the "leaf," the spring actually carries it's own weight, which is better for suspension response. It weights A LOT LESS than coil springs. One leaf replaces two coils. The two coil springs weigh 3 times as much as the one leaf. Additionally the leaf is placed at the bottom of the car so that in addition to removing weight you lower the CG.

2nd...traditional buggy leave springs were multi leaves and were used as suspension arms as well as springs, which was bad due to being inherently flexible. Plus they had friction as the leaves rubbed against each other. The Corvette's monoleaf only has olne job to do: be a spring. That's what makes it unlike any other leaf spring suspension of old cars.

3rd... you really think coil springs are some sort of new development?

Why doesn't everyone use it?

-Engineers like to stick with what they know. Lots of suspension engineers are familiar with using coil springs. They could experiment with leaves if they wanted or they could stick with coils and get the job done.

-Perception. Just like pushrods, the leaf spring as a stigma attached to it. The reasons for the stigma are legit (key component to heavy and typically poor handling suspension). However the reality is the sum of the older parts was the problem, not a specific part of it. In the older buggy spring type setups (liek the rears of older cars) the leafe spring was not just the spring, but all of the suspension. the Corvette is actually a doal A arm suspension that has one half of a high tech composite leaf as the spring, and that's all teh leaf does.

Coil race springs are not car specific. You select rates, diameters, length etc but you donít have a specific spring for a specific car. If you want to order a custom spring Hypercoil will wind it to your specifications on the same machine they use for the next custom spring. A custom Porsche, Formula Ford and LMP car spring can all be made on the same machine. By the time the C6 evolves into a C6-R (they donít start off with a production Corvette) the suspension geometry is so different that they couldnít just mount a C6 leaf spring. Itís far too expensive to have a few custom leaf springs tooled up (you would have to buy the tooling as well as the springs) so they use readily available coil springs.

This type of universal tooling isnít availible for the composite leaf spring. Only the Vette currently uses the spring so you are making a Vette only part. This seriously reduces the market for aftermarket composite leaf springs (still there are after market leaf springs available for the Vette). The business case for custom equipment to make Vette springs is harder to justify since itís a smaller market.

In reviews, such as between the Corvette and the Porsche, the reviewers are using the stigma as fact. They still equate the leaf with old style buggy leaf suspension and look for reasons to call it out, even if they have to make up those reasons. The differences in the car's "feel" have nothing to do with the spring material, but with shock/spring rates and with car layout (the Porsche is heavily rear biased, the Corvette is evenly balanced, but heavy). But since the dual A arms of the Corvette have a single composite monoleaf half attached to it at the outer end, those reviewers think that the "stoneage leaf spring suspension" is sub par in comparison,and to blame for the differences in feel. It could be tires and tire pressures. It could be in alignment specs, or A arm geometry, or in the bushings in the steering. Assuming it's the composite monoleaf because you equate it with old style buggy springs is ludicrous, but magazine reviewers will do that.
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Old 06-17-2005, 06:59 AM   #28
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Screw Vette's

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgerforlife
i was putting that out as a comparison according to similar street popularity...

My friend had a 1996 Corvette, he now has a 98' Cobra SVT loves that so much more, overall from what i have heard from dealers, (my best friend's dad OWNS a dealership) most of them speak more bad than good about the vette's
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Old 06-17-2005, 05:33 PM   #29
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I had a big post here, but I decided it's just not worth it.

ChrisV, you just have lower expectations from a vehicle than I do. I expect to drive a vehicle for 50K miles and change the oil and replace tires and brakes, that's it. If I take it to the sand dunes or off-roading, perhaps I'll need to replace a ball joint or a CV boot. If I take it to the racetrack perhaps I'll need to bleed the brakes, change the oil, repack the wheel bearings, etc.

I don't tolerate stuff just "breaking".

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Old 06-19-2005, 02:27 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2001 CamaroZ28
is it just me, or are Dodge Vipers overated. My buddy had one and the thing constantly broke. Not to mention there 80grand and the parts are a million bucks. 500hp big deal, for 30 less you could have a corvette with 400 that'll kick the shit outa it. i cant wait for the new ZO6 with 500, can you say Supercar for 75. Hell that same guy with the viper has a lingenfelter vette with 787 rwhp that has only broken an axle shaft after 28 runs on the dragstrip and countless hours of street driving, and this car runs 9's

Ok you Prob dont own a viper or a corvette....prob never will....and prob never even rode in either so who cares wat you think. ME on the other hand HAS and yes the best zo6 corvette prob is better in most ways then the cheapest viper that you are compairing it to. so try compairing the best corvette to the best viper or the cheapest vette to the cheapest viper. the viper always comes out on top. not say i dont like corvettes my dad has one and i love it
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