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Old 06-22-2005, 02:15 AM   #16
99integra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-G
first off, here is a best of ranking from consumer reports...

Family Sedan Honda Accord Hybrid
Upscale Sedan BMW 530
Luxury Car Lexus LS 430
Small SUV Subaru Forester
Midsized SUV Lexus RX 330
3-Row SUV Honda Pilot
Minivan Honda Odyssey
Green Car Toyota Prius

- are any of these american?

here is another consumer reports chart(used cars this time)...

Brand


Problems
Per 100

Porsche
103
Toyota
196
Honda
215
Nissan
258
BMW
262
GM
264
Subaru
266
AVERAGE
273
Ford
287
DaimlerChrysler

311
Mitsubishi
339
Hyundai
342
Isuzu
368
VW
378
Suzuki
403
Daewoo
421
Kia
509


heres one more...
Subaru 8
Honda 9
Acura 10
Toyota 10
Hyundai 11
Infiniti 11
Lexus 11
Audi 12
Mini 13
BMW 14
Ford 15
Pontiac 15
Cadillac 16
Chevrolet 16
Chrysler 16
GMC 16
Jeep 16
Mazda 16
Saab 16
Dodge 17
Mercury 17
Volvo 17
Buick 18
Nissan 19
Saturn 19
Volkswagen 23
Mercedes-Benz 25
Lincoln 26

Again you are pulling this ****ing shit out of magazines, at least drive the damn car before you make judgements, these are other people opinions, stop believing what other people say ya dumbshit
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:15 AM   #17
BavarianWheels
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-G
first off, here is a best of ranking from consumer reports...

Family Sedan Honda Accord Hybrid
Upscale Sedan BMW 530
Luxury Car Lexus LS 430
Small SUV Subaru Forester
Midsized SUV Lexus RX 330
3-Row SUV Honda Pilot
Minivan Honda Odyssey
Green Car Toyota Prius

- are any of these american?

here is another consumer reports chart(used cars this time)...

Brand


Problems
Per 100

Porsche
103
Toyota
196
Honda
215
Nissan
258
BMW
262
GM
264
Subaru
266
AVERAGE
273
Ford
287
DaimlerChrysler

311
Mitsubishi
339
Hyundai
342
Isuzu
368
VW
378
Suzuki
403
Daewoo
421
Kia
509


heres one more...
Subaru 8
Honda 9
Acura 10
Toyota 10
Hyundai 11
Infiniti 11
Lexus 11
Audi 12
Mini 13
BMW 14
Ford 15
Pontiac 15
Cadillac 16
Chevrolet 16
Chrysler 16
GMC 16
Jeep 16
Mazda 16
Saab 16
Dodge 17
Mercury 17
Volvo 17
Buick 18
Nissan 19
Saturn 19
Volkswagen 23
Mercedes-Benz 25
Lincoln 26

You better provide links for your "points"...it'll help out more.
.
.
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:23 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-G
cmon, prove it. Use examples with evidence, comparing american to foreign, proving that american cars are better.

It's an argument no one can win. To quote Mark Twain "There are lies, damned lies and statistics".

Personally I have a leaning to Japanese for good engineering and value. But then again my daily drive has an american designed 5.7l pushrodasauris engine. My other runabout is a direct injection engined French sports car. Both seem to be reliable although only a couple of years old. I did have a Tauris Ghia, but it was mechanically unsound so got rid of it after 2 years.
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:24 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-G
rather than making unsubstantiated remarks, prove to me that american cars are better than european or japanese. I do not hate all american cars 427 cobras were cool. Another thing about american cars though, look at how the new corvette completely copied the body design of the 360. compare the profiles and you will see what i mean. THey have given up onncatching up to euro, so now they are jsut copying.

Ok, ill bite. Since you like performance cars, lets start with the corvette.

The new c6 is a work of art on the exterior, it seems less bulky than the C5, the headlights are beuatiful and "modern". The cars weight is very reasonable, it has many nice features and a relatively low list of options. It has an engine that can still give great gas mileage. The pricing on the car is unbeatable for the features it has. It is often compared to the 911, which in itself is an honor.

Having said that, the C6 is superior to the 911 in many ways. THe 911 is very pricey and has almost everything as an option. The 911 has less performance potential than the C6. Maintainence of a 911 is extremely expensive and the distribution of dealerships who can repair a 911 is non-existant.

The corvette is America's sports car because GM has put it's best efforts into it's flagship car and imo the corvette is a winner.

And there is no equivalent japanese car.
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:27 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by importluva
Ok, ill bite. Since you like performance cars, lets start with the corvette.

The new c6 is a work of art on the exterior, it seems less bulky than the C5, the headlights are beuatiful and "modern". The cars weight is very reasonable, it has many nice features and a relatively low list of options. It has an engine that can still give great gas mileage. The pricing on the car is unbeatable for the features it has. It is often compared to the 911, which in itself is an honor.

Having said that, the C6 is superior to the 911 in many ways. THe 911 is very pricey and has almost everything as an option. The 911 has less performance potential than the C6. Maintainence of a 911 is extremely expensive and the distribution of dealerships who can repair a 911 is non-existant.

The corvette is America's sports car because GM has put it's best efforts into it's flagship car and imo the corvette is a winner.

And there is no equivalent japanese car.

I like corvettes, but i was simply telling you to look at the exterior compared with that of a 360. THe corvette is almost an exact copy.
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:29 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-G
rather than making unsubstantiated remarks, prove to me that american cars are better than european or japanese. I do not hate all american cars 427 cobras were cool. Another thing about american cars though, look at how the new corvette completely copied the body design of the 360. compare the profiles and you will see what i mean. THey have given up onncatching up to euro, so now they are jsut copying.
You're still only presenting YOUR OPINION, and then ridiculing people for having their own opinion. You say "provide facts to say that American cars are better". Well why don't YOU provide facts that say imports are better.

.... And, no other people's opinions (eg magazine writers) don't count. All you've supplied are still subjective opinions. If you want people to supply facts, then you've got to do the same. Saying that some dude from a magazine likes Euro cars better than American ones doesn't actually make them better.

So I put it to you .... try to prove that American cars are WORSE than European or Japanese. I'm not biased one way or another, so if you actually present a good argument, I might believe you. But until that time, you have no respect. If you want people to prove it, then you should be willing to prove it too.
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:30 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99integra
Again you are pulling this ****ing shit out of magazines, at least drive the damn car before you make judgements, these are other people opinions, stop believing what other people say ya dumbshit
It is consumer reports, the foremost authority on reliability rankings. They are there because we, as consumers, do not have the opportunity to drive every car 50k miles and to test the reliability. These are not judgment or opinions. THe number of problems that a car has per 100 is a FACT, not an opinion. There is nothing to argue about, it is concrete. Okay, i guess i should stop believing what consumer reports says, right, they are idiots there(sarcasm).
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:31 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
... my daily drive has an american designed 5.7l pushrodasauris engine.

Commy? what model?
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:31 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-G
I like corvettes, but i was simply telling you to look at the exterior compared with that of a 360. THe corvette is almost an exact copy.

So what? Nothing wrong with taking design cues, its done all over the industry. Subaru's are going to sport the Alfa Romeo look. Chrysler will get cues from mercedes, nissan will get cues from renault, etc.
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:33 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-G
It is consumer reports, the foremost authority on reliability rankings. They are there because we, as consumers, do not have the opportunity to drive every car 50k miles and to test the reliability. These are not judgment or opinions. THe number of problems that a car has per 100 is a FACT, not an opinion. There is nothing to argue about, it is concrete. Okay, i guess i should stop believing what consumer reports says, right, they are idiots there(sarcasm).
Yeah maybe so, but what sort of problem?
I reckon I'd rather a car that blows 80 light bulbs in a year than one that has 2 cracked heads.... Just a thought.
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:34 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windsonian
You're still only presenting YOUR OPINION, and then ridiculing people for having their own opinion. You say "provide facts to say that American cars are better". Well why don't YOU provide facts that say imports are better.

.... And, no other people's opinions (eg magazine writers) don't count. All you've supplied are still subjective opinions. If you want people to supply facts, then you've got to do the same. Saying that some dude from a magazine likes Euro cars better than American ones doesn't actually make them better.

So I put it to you .... try to prove that American cars are WORSE than European or Japanese. I'm not biased one way or another, so if you actually present a good argument, I might believe you. But until that time, you have no respect. If you want people to prove it, then you should be willing to prove it too.

Japan for reliability- no question about this. Just look at consumer reports(not a magazine writer's opinion)

europe for performance and innovation- The best performing cars ever made have come from europe- enzo, McLAren, Pagani, Koenigsegg, porsches. Ferrari is also the best racing team in the world.
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:38 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-G
Japan for reliability- no question about this. Just look at consumer reports(not a magazine writer's opinion)

europe for performance and innovation- The best performing cars ever made have come from europe- enzo, McLAren, Pagani, Koenigsegg, porsches. Ferrari is also the best racing team in the world.
That's fine ... your opinion.

And no-one said that Euro and Jap cars were bad. But American cars have plusses too. They're different types of cars though ... I'd have thought most of the best muscle cars were yanks...... or Kingswoods.
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:40 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-G
Japan for reliability- no question about this. Just look at consumer reports(not a magazine writer's opinion)

I will assume that you are the friend.


europe for performance and innovation- The best performing cars ever made have come from europe- enzo, McLAren, Pagani, Koenigsegg, porsches. Ferrari is also the best racing team in the world.
Fyi, Mr. McLaren was from New Zealand.

Your generalizations don't work for all cars but in a sense i can agree with you.
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:43 AM   #29
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right, but american cars have the least amount of plusses and the most amount of minuses
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:44 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by importluva
Your generalizations don't work for all cars but in a sense i can agree with you.

i know what you are saying, and from your posts, i can see that you are one of the most intelligent people on this board.
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