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Old 08-12-2005, 05:09 AM   #1
6000LE
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Why is this so?

I was racing my friend. Here are the cars.

Me: 1998 Dodge Neon Sport 4-door 2.0L DOHC Inline 4, 150 horsepower 133 pounds of torque 3-speed automatic

Him: 1994 Chevrolet Cavalier RS 2-door 2.2L Inline 4, 120 horsepower, 140 pounds of torque 3-speed automatic

Here is the problem. THE WHOLE TIME WE WERE GOING SIDE BY SIDE AND NOT AN INCH AHEAD OF EACH OTHER AT FULL THROTTLE.

Only tihng i can think of is that my car weighs a lot more and the power to weight ratio on mine and his is the same. That or my car is in a really bad tune. What can i do to fix this I feel dumb being beaten by that car.

and yes i raced on an auto i just wanted to see how my car stacks up to others
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Old 08-12-2005, 05:35 AM   #2
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The reason hes staying with you is because he has the torque that your car doesnt, even if he doesnt have as much horsepower. Plus, the weight is also a factor.

I would put on a cold air intake, and a header and then see what happens.
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Old 08-12-2005, 04:18 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlipKnoT
The reason hes staying with you is because he has the torque that your car doesnt, even if he doesnt have as much horsepower. Plus, the weight is also a factor.

I would put on a cold air intake, and a header and then see what happens.

no mods for me
it was in a small lot and i only got up to like 5000 RPM when the car floorshifts ar 6500
so that might be a factor
id get him in the longrun i think
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Old 08-12-2005, 11:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6000LE
I was racing my friend. Here are the cars.

Me: 1998 Dodge Neon Sport 4-door 2.0L DOHC Inline 4, 150 horsepower 133 pounds of torque 3-speed automatic

Him: 1994 Chevrolet Cavalier RS 2-door 2.2L Inline 4, 120 horsepower, 140 pounds of torque 3-speed automatic

Here is the problem. THE WHOLE TIME WE WERE GOING SIDE BY SIDE AND NOT AN INCH AHEAD OF EACH OTHER AT FULL THROTTLE.

Only tihng i can think of is that my car weighs a lot more and the power to weight ratio on mine and his is the same. That or my car is in a really bad tune. What can i do to fix this I feel dumb being beaten by that car.

and yes i raced on an auto i just wanted to see how my car stacks up to others

could be a number of reasons, displacement difference, torque difference, weight difference, gearbox and engine difference, anything could be the reason for it. It could also be because you car might need a tune up or something?

if i was you i'd get an intake and a header and see how ya go.
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Old 08-13-2005, 12:38 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6000LE
I was racing my friend. Here are the cars.

Me: 1998 Dodge Neon Sport 4-door 2.0L DOHC Inline 4, 150 horsepower 133 pounds of torque 3-speed automatic

Him: 1994 Chevrolet Cavalier RS 2-door 2.2L Inline 4, 120 horsepower, 140 pounds of torque 3-speed automatic

Here is the problem. THE WHOLE TIME WE WERE GOING SIDE BY SIDE AND NOT AN INCH AHEAD OF EACH OTHER AT FULL THROTTLE.

Only tihng i can think of is that my car weighs a lot more and the power to weight ratio on mine and his is the same. That or my car is in a really bad tune. What can i do to fix this I feel dumb being beaten by that car.

and yes i raced on an auto i just wanted to see how my car stacks up to others


Power to weight and gear ratios. Driver skill too maybe?

Torque schmork, how do you know what the torque curve is guys? It could have a very flat curve peaking at 100 ftlbs and still waste a car peaking 150ftlbs.
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Old 08-14-2005, 03:41 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
Power to weight and gear ratios. Driver skill too maybe?

Torque schmork, how do you know what the torque curve is guys? It could have a very flat curve peaking at 100 ftlbs and still waste a car peaking 150ftlbs.

what skill
its an automatic
you floor the pedal and just go
i have 133 torque but it doesnt kick in fast
only at like 4000-4500RPM
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Old 08-14-2005, 03:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6000LE
what skill
its an automatic
you floor the pedal and just go
i have 133 torque but it doesnt kick in fast
only at like 4000-4500RPM

**** mate, your torque band is TINY!, mines like 2000rpm long, lol.... AND THATS AN EXCEL! ****, i think something could be wrong there?
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Old 08-14-2005, 03:56 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyundaGuy
**** mate, your torque band is TINY!, mines like 2000rpm long, lol.... AND THATS AN EXCEL! ****, i think something could be wrong there?

na look it up
its the 2.0L DOHC engine
its supposed to be that way
my thing is
can i increase the torque for really cheap?
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Old 08-14-2005, 07:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6000LE
what skill
its an automatic
you floor the pedal and just go
i have 133 torque but it doesnt kick in fast
only at like 4000-4500RPM

Well then maybe you should look at your stally too. I'd size it for you, but Oomba and the second smartest guy on the board should be able to do that in a snap for your.
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Old 08-14-2005, 09:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6000LE
na look it up
its the 2.0L DOHC engine
its supposed to be that way
my thing is
can i increase the torque for really cheap?

higher compression with better intake... suggestion: CAI, Larger Throttle Body, Larger Fuel Pump, Thicker Head Gaskit and a 2" Borla Exhaust with a Borla Header

that could increase the torque... for fairly cheap...
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Old 08-14-2005, 10:05 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyundaGuy
higher compression with better intake... suggestion: CAI, Larger Throttle Body, Larger Fuel Pump, Thicker Head Gaskit and a 2" Borla Exhaust with a Borla Header

that could increase the torque... for fairly cheap...

Those things will tend to be more power oriented. To increase torque production (remember torque is a cross product of two vectors, while power is a scalar quantity) you need to increase BMEP.

And forget Borla, get the best = Gonzo performance pipes
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Old 08-14-2005, 01:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
Those things will tend to be more power oriented. To increase torque production (remember torque is a cross product of two vectors, while power is a scalar quantity) you need to increase BMEP.

And forget Borla, get the best = Gonzo performance pipes

wtf is BMEP, and if ur saysing tahts not the way to increase torque then u should say how.
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Old 08-14-2005, 01:56 PM   #13
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I don't think so, but I'm sure members who are much smarter than the rest will explain. Alternatively you could put some study in and you wouldn't need to ask basic questions.
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Old 08-15-2005, 02:19 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Wally
I don't think so, but I'm sure members who are much smarter than the rest will explain. Alternatively you could put some study in and you wouldn't need to ask basic questions.

how do you increase torque? i always thought that increasing the a/f intake would increase torque?
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Old 08-15-2005, 07:26 AM   #15
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Ok I'll concede you may get a slight increase, but it will be negligable and there is actaully a case where the peak may actually reduce.

Quote:
CAI, Larger Throttle Body, Larger Fuel Pump, Thicker Head Gaskit and a 2" Borla Exhaust with a Borla Header


What's the larger throttle body going to do? Answer = reduce pressure drop of the throttle plate:- flow potential is going to increase by the square root of the reduction in drop. But, peak torque is where peak VE and BMEP are and at peak torque rpm your TB isn't WOT or is it?

What's the larger fuel pump going to do? Answer = increase available fuel flow, but only if needed:- once again flow is going to increase by the square root of the flow increase. Once again you aren't pumping as much fuel as the engine requires at max power so not much point increasing just to cater for torque.

Thicker head gasket is going to do what? Answer = lower your CR and if OHC retard the valve timing. This will actually drop your BMEP and thus torque.

Borla exhaust is doing what? Answer = flattening and lengthening your torque curve, increasing peak power rpm (maybe).

And you may notice that peak torque on the same engine tends to stay around the same rpm, regardless of increases because of air density, cam grinds, etc. While significant improvement in power is fairly easy, torque rarely increases by more than 20% with standard street performance mods. Does that tell you anything?
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Last edited by Wally : 08-15-2005 at 07:33 AM.
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