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Old 02-24-2004, 04:57 AM   #1
Gary Bretherton
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Cannot rotate engine

Hi Everyone,

Have an old (1978) E20 Nissan Van. Had the clutch's Master Cylinder and Slave Cylinder reconditioned. Engine was running OK before taking them out. Put the Clutch's Master/Slave cylinders back, bled the clutch and brakes and 'thut' - car won't start. Sounded like the problem was electrical so checked battery - plenty of charge. Went all over it with meter and put in new coil, new starter motor. At about this time tried rotating engine by hand and it just won't move. Spun rear wheel and dropped clutch to see if it would free up pistons. Turned on ignition again and magically for a moment the engine started to turn, only for the amount that I'd moved the pistons.

The fan belt is OK

I'm thinking of towing the car around to start it but I'm worried if I've misaligned something in the clutch area.

Any clues?

Gary
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Old 02-24-2004, 06:31 AM   #2
medicTA
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It wouldn't hurt to double check your install for alignment, binding ect. Also check oil level.
Then disconnect the coil wire, remove all sparkplugs, add a tablespoon or two of 30 weight oil to each sparkplug hole and try to turn the engine by hand with a socket on the crank.
If it turns slowly, add another tablespoon of oil to each cylinder and crank it with the starter.
Hopefully it will loosen up enough to reconnect coil wire, add sparkplugs and it will start.
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Old 02-26-2004, 01:00 AM   #3
DodgeRida67
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You need to check to see if you get power to the start soliniod when the clutch is depressed. most manual transmissions only allow the vehicle to start when the clutch is depressed, you may have disconnected the wire while servicing it.
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Old 02-26-2004, 04:02 AM   #4
Gary Bretherton
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Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by medicTA
It wouldn't hurt to double check your install for alignment, binding ect. Also check oil level.
Then disconnect the coil wire, remove all sparkplugs, add a tablespoon or two of 30 weight oil to each sparkplug hole and try to turn the engine by hand with a socket on the crank.
If it turns slowly, add another tablespoon of oil to each cylinder and crank it with the starter.
Hopefully it will loosen up enough to reconnect coil wire, add sparkplugs and it will start.

Thanks very much for your reply. I'll be trying your advice. I will let you know what happens

Gary
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Old 02-26-2004, 04:07 AM   #5
Gary Bretherton
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Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeRida67
You need to check to see if you get power to the start soliniod when the clutch is depressed. most manual transmissions only allow the vehicle to start when the clutch is depressed, you may have disconnected the wire while servicing it.

Thanks for your reply. I'll be having a look at what you've suggested. Let you know what has happened

Gary
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Old 02-27-2004, 03:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Bretherton
Hi Everyone,

Have an old (1978) E20 Nissan Van. Had the clutch's Master Cylinder and Slave Cylinder reconditioned. Engine was running OK before taking them out. Put the Clutch's Master/Slave cylinders back, bled the clutch and brakes and 'thut' - car won't start. Sounded like the problem was electrical so checked battery - plenty of charge. Went all over it with meter and put in new coil, new starter motor. At about this time tried rotating engine by hand and it just won't move. Spun rear wheel and dropped clutch to see if it would free up pistons. Turned on ignition again and magically for a moment the engine started to turn, only for the amount that I'd moved the pistons.

The fan belt is OK

I'm thinking of towing the car around to start it but I'm worried if I've misaligned something in the clutch area.

Any clues?

Gary
Read his post children, the engine DOES NOT turn over by hand. That leaves out the entire starting circuit including but not limited to the battery, ignition switch, clutch safety switch, starter solenoid and starter. Additionally the coil, clutch master cylinder, oil level, fan belt and bleeding the clutch or the brakes won't cause this problem.

The only thing that he mentioned that could even remotely cause this is the clutch slave cylinder. It is an external slave and upon installation there is a very slight possiblity that the release fork was displaced and is binding between the pressure plate and bellhousing.

Most likely Gary, your engine has been sitting for a long time and is seized. Or worse yet you may have some internal engine damage. Or maybe you got gas/oil/water into a cylinder (cylinders?) while it was sitting and you have a hydraulic lock. The best thing you can do at this point is the only peice of advice you got that was close to correct. Remove the sparkplugs and try turning the engine. DO NOT use the starter until the engine turns freely, otherwise you can damge the flywheel, ring gear, starter and/or bellhousing.
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Old 02-27-2004, 03:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Most likely Gary, your engine has been sitting for a long time and is seized. Or worse yet you may have some internal engine damage. Or maybe you got gas/oil/water into a cylinder (cylinders?) while it was sitting and you have a hydraulic lock. The best thing you can do at this point is the only peice of advice you got that was close to correct. Remove the sparkplugs and try turning the engine. DO NOT use the starter until the engine turns freely, otherwise you can damge the flywheel, ring gear, starter and/or bellhousing.




Buddy, seriously, your helpful and all but you dont know everything don't try to make everyone looks stupid here.



Anyway, you said the engine was running fine before. Get both rear wheels off the ground ( assuming this is rwd ) just put jackstands on the axle. Put the transmission in netrual and turn the driveshaft either direction. If driveshaft turns then put the vehicle in 1st gear. depress the clutch ( get a helper ) and turn the driveshaft again. If it turns like it did in netrual then I seriously doubt it has anything to do with the clutch. Now, you said you checked the battery's charge with a meter...just because it shows full voltage doesnt mean its got the right charge. Put your meter on the battery and turn the ignition and see what it reads with the ignition on - in the start position.
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Old 02-27-2004, 03:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeRida67
Buddy, seriously, your helpful and all but you dont know everything don't try to make everyone looks stupid here.



Anyway, you said the engine was running fine before. Get both rear wheels off the ground ( assuming this is rwd ) just put jackstands on the axle. Put the transmission in netrual and turn the driveshaft either direction. If driveshaft turns then put the vehicle in 1st gear. depress the clutch ( get a helper ) and turn the driveshaft again. If it turns like it did in netrual then I seriously doubt it has anything to do with the clutch. Now, you said you checked the battery's charge with a meter...just because it shows full voltage doesnt mean its got the right charge. Put your meter on the battery and turn the ignition and see what it reads with the ignition on - in the start position.
I don't have to try to make you look stupid, you're doing that yourself. Why can't you get past the starting/electrical system. For crying out loud the engine doesn't turn over by hand, the starting system has nothing to do with it. Tips for using this forum.

THINK, TYPE, SUBMIT.
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Old 03-03-2004, 02:19 PM   #9
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I had to reply to this

This Gary B guy/gal is a COMPLETE idiot and so are 98% of the people that replied. VWHOBO, you hit it RIGHT on the money!! In the first f*cking posting we were told the ENGINE DOES NOT TURN OVER. Why is the blazing F*CK would you attempt to have him check brakes, ignition and all that other crap that you tried to have him check??? NONE of that matters. Anyone with a CLUE about the workings of a vehicle would know that. As for you Dodgerida gigga whateva' you are, I have read more than one of your posting on here and you need to do us all a favor and crawl back in the hole you came from, bud. You know jack SH*T about cars and are the KING of mis-information. I tend to always go by the rule that states, "I shall keep my mouth SHUT if by opening it, I incriminate myself or make myself appear as a fool." You do a great job at that you dumbas*. Your opinions are not worth and personally, I think you are


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Bretherton
Hi Everyone,

Have an old (1978) E20 Nissan Van. Had the clutch's Master Cylinder and Slave Cylinder reconditioned. Engine was running OK before taking them out. Put the Clutch's Master/Slave cylinders back, bled the clutch and brakes and 'thut' - car won't start. Sounded like the problem was electrical so checked battery - plenty of charge. Went all over it with meter and put in new coil, new starter motor. At about this time tried rotating engine by hand and it just won't move. Spun rear wheel and dropped clutch to see if it would free up pistons. Turned on ignition again and magically for a moment the engine started to turn, only for the amount that I'd moved the pistons.

The fan belt is OK

I'm thinking of towing the car around to start it but I'm worried if I've misaligned something in the clutch area.

Any clues?

Gary
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Other toys: 2003 Honda Superhawk 996 sportbike, 2007 Suzuki M109R cruiser, 2006 Kawasaki KLR 650, 1996 and 1997 Sea Doo GSX limited watercraft.
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Old 03-03-2004, 02:23 PM   #10
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Btw

Oh BTW Gary, that idea you had about towing the van around to start it is just the most intellectually MARVELLOUS idea you could have come up with. Especially after you were intelligent enough to determine that the engine was SEIZED. Unless you plan on dragging the van around with the wheels skidding while RIPPING apart the transmission and engine AND endangering the lives of others and not to mention yourself, I would seriously RETHINK that idea.
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Other toys: 2003 Honda Superhawk 996 sportbike, 2007 Suzuki M109R cruiser, 2006 Kawasaki KLR 650, 1996 and 1997 Sea Doo GSX limited watercraft.
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Old 03-24-2004, 02:19 AM   #11
Gary Bretherton
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Found Problem

Hi Everyone.

Engine Seized. Blown head gasket. Pulled engine down, what a mess. Much pain and suffering getting the engine out. Never had to take this type of engine out before. I'm used to engines I can get at.

Besides piston chambers being full of water, found broken bolt jamming fly wheel and a broken piston ring
I don't know how the bloody thing worked in the first place.

Still working on reconditioning the engine, I'm on my Pat Malone, (no helpers)

I'd like to thank everyone for their contributions

Thanks.......Gary
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Old 03-24-2004, 11:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Bretherton
Hi Everyone.

Engine Seized. Blown head gasket. Pulled engine down, what a mess. Much pain and suffering getting the engine out. Never had to take this type of engine out before. I'm used to engines I can get at.

Besides piston chambers being full of water, found broken bolt jamming fly wheel and a broken piston ring
I don't know how the bloody thing worked in the first place.

Still working on reconditioning the engine, I'm on my Pat Malone, (no helpers)

I'd like to thank everyone for their contributions

Thanks.......Gary
Interesting... Almost like what I theorized early in this thread.
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