Car Forums  

Go Back   Car Forums > Vehicle Specific > Asian Imports
FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-02-2004, 09:27 PM   #31
vwhobo
CF's Anal Orifice
 
vwhobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Redneck Hell
Posts: 8,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur
Just because i dont sit at a computer all day and post non stop doesnt mean im ignoring something, i have a life and post here rarely. The only reason i say that automatics are faster is because they are Way more precise and are alot stronger and i was under the assumption that top fuel dragsters used an automatic style transmission. Besides Ive seen people shave time off there run by switching to an automatic, I believe it was in a high horsepower eclipse/talon. You really need to lose the attitude VW, your not better than us so quit pretending like you are, yes you may be knowledgble when it comes to auto mechanics but it in no Way gives you the right to treat others like garbage. Either straigthen up or shut up asshole.
Why the hostility, because you're wrong and not man enough to admit it?

You made a statement. I wanted clarification. You made an assumption and as normally happens, made an ass out of yourself. The sad thing is that you didn't even make an ass of yourself by making the statement, anyone can make a mistake. What hurt you is all the BS leading up to saying you made a mistake.

As for having a life, it's been my experience that the people who use that phrase are the ones least likely to have one. So while I may be the asshole (as advertised in my title), at least I'm not a dumb ass. That would be you.
__________________
Thanks for the pic, jedimario.

"Everybody believes in something and everybody, by virtue of the fact that they believe in something, use that something to support their own existence."
Frank Vincent Zappa, 1940-1993

vwhobo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2004, 12:38 AM   #32
jzxTT
CF Addict
 
jzxTT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Near by
Posts: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
Why the hostility, because you're wrong and not man enough to admit it?

You made a statement. I wanted clarification. You made an assumption and as normally happens, made an ass out of yourself. The sad thing is that you didn't even make an ass of yourself by making the statement, anyone can make a mistake. What hurt you is all the BS leading up to saying you made a mistake.

As for having a life, it's been my experience that the people who use that phrase are the ones least likely to have one. So while I may be the asshole (as advertised in my title), at least I'm not a dumb ass. That would be you.
ooooo ur smart now
jzxTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2004, 01:54 AM   #33
Vassar
CF Newbie
 
Vassar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzxTT
ooooo ur smart now

You're seriously like the biggest dumbass on these boards. I have seen about five of your posts and realized that.

You act like you're about 10.
Vassar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2004, 02:11 AM   #34
SuperJew
I like pie.
 
SuperJew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Suburbia Central, New York
Posts: 2,584
i had a feeling i would like you Vassar...
__________________


CF's Resident Pimp Slapper

Pimp Slap Count (as of 30 May 2004): 34
SuperJew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2004, 07:44 PM   #35
Nissan_240SX
CF Newbie
 
Nissan_240SX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 13
manual
__________________
NISSAN 240SX
Nissan_240SX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2004, 06:04 PM   #36
ChrisV
The Big Meaney
 
ChrisV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: People's Republic of Maryland
Posts: 3,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy
The difference in speed is sooo minimal it's practically non-existant and anyway, I aint never heard of an auto that's faster than it's manual equivilant...Manuals provide far better accelaration though which is always nice!

Actually, that's not always true.

Stock automatics are tuned for smooth shifts, as they are considered a luxury item. Most buyers of stock automatics would complain about harsh shifts if the manufacturers sold them in the same form drag racers use.

But if you go to B&M, TCI, Art carr and others, you can get valve body kits that increase pressures on the bands, change shift points, etc, to make shifts happen faster and firmer. These shift improver kits can make a HUGE difference in how the automatic transmission works, giving you shifting that happens when you want it, instantly. This makes them shift faster than you could ever shift a manual, and allow the engine to make power during the shift (you can do that by "speed shifting" a manual, too, but you run the very real risk of missing the shift and/or damaging your transmission). Combined with a performance torque converter and you end up with an automatic transmission that slips less than you do when slipping the clutch to take off with a manual, and shifts faster than you do at gearchanges, and yet only shifts when you want it to by moving the lever.

Why is it so easy for people to think of all the things they can do to make a car faster or handle better but ignore the transmissions? How much power the car makes stock is only a starting point. How well it handles and stops is only a starting point. But then you think that how an automatic transmission works stock is the only way it can ever work... ?

This is why so many drag racers use built automatics: they shift faster, more consistently, and are actually very often quicker overall than their manual counterparts. We aren't talking new computer controlled transmissions, but such stalwarts of the racing scene as the Powerglide, the TH350 and TH400, C4 and C6, and Torqueflite 727. These are pretty common in cars that are running 7 and 8 second quarter mile times. When Arthur was talking the "big boys" he means cars runing in the fastest Street car Shootout series, like Nick Scavo's 7 second Camaro and the like. Yeah, faster classes, like Pro Stock, have used Lenco transmissions, but that's as far removed from a street manual as anything could be.

Now, why don't road racers use automatics? Pretty simple. In the early days, that's really all there was to choose from. As sports cars tended to become small and light, small engines were preferred. Small engines need to rev to make power, and they end up with fairly narrow powerbands. In order to have teh engine in it's powerband over teh course of a road racing circuit, you needed a lot of gears, matched to the ecxact powerband and weight of the car. Manual transmissions provided this in a relatively compact package. And what's more, it was easy to change gear ratios depending on the exact circuit you were racing on. Considering a transmission manufacturer like ZF, hewland, Getrag, or Coletti could have one case and hundreds of eaasily swapped gear ratios, that became very important. It's VERY hard to have multiple gear ratios that are easy to change with an automatic. Withut that ability, it's useless. Add to that the way an automatic does use more power to run, and you can see that a sub 1 liter racing engine making under 100 hp simply had to have the flexibility that a manual transmission offered.

But a large car wth a large displacement, high horsepower, torquey engine had more flexibility, and didn't need all those gear ratios. Changing the final drive ratio was enough to retain performance. AND it's easier to use than the rather stiff clutch necessary to handle all that torque.

that's why on dual purpose track/street cars that have high torque figures, I rpefer a built automatic. on the track I gain all the benefits of lightning quick shifts, and less chance of missed shifts and breakage, while on the street, there is increased comfort of not dealing with heavy clutch pedals in stop and go traffic.

On small engine cars, I only use manuals. All the cars I've bought new have had manuals. All my small engine race cars have been manuals, and I've gotten a number of trophies in them. I'm not as good as some of the national champions I race with, but I tend to be better than average at shifting. All my Porsches and VWs have been manuals. But my V8 RX7 autocross car had a built AOD, and the BMW in my sig now has a C6 that is getting the full B&M treatment to handle the hp of the big block V8 in it. It will also be an autocross and track day car, as well as a street monster.

I have no problem with car control, and I would like someone to come and point out where I didn't have enough control with my RX7 to win. I certainly had fun with it and will with the BMW, and I'd like someone to come and point out in my commute where shifting is ever done for fun in my manual transmission commuter car. In fact, I'd like to see where my RX7 was less fun than say, a stock 5 speed Civic DX or VW Bug. if a manual is always fun, and an automatic always not, that shouldn't be true.

Not to say a good manual transmission isn't a great thing at the right time. I do prefer a good sports car with a slick manual trans. But 90% of the time, I'm not shifting while driving even in a manual transmision car. FUN comes in not slowing down for a corner, or having a bunch of power slamming you back in your seat. It doesn't come from saying, "look at me, I shifted!. Oh, look! I did it again!" And control comes more from brakes and steering. I don't have ABS and yaw control for that very reason.

Sorry, been racing for a couple decades, and this is a pet peeve of mine: the unfounded hatred of automatic transmissions and the "automatic" labeling of people with automatics as "non drivers" and automatic equipped performance cars as a waste. It simply isn't true.
__________________
I'm not mean. You're just a wuss.



www.midatlantic7s.com
ChrisV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2004, 06:18 PM   #37
lectroid
0000?
 
lectroid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Redneck Hillbilly Heaven
Posts: 1,123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vassar
You're seriously like the biggest dumbass on these boards.

I take personel offense to your statement. I may be the biggest dumbass on these boards.
__________________
Life is not a bitch, it just came with the package. [IMG][/IMG]
Laughing is good exercise. It's like jogging on the inside.
lectroid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2004, 06:20 PM   #38
BavarianWheels
Supreme Demagogue
 
BavarianWheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: So. Cal.
Posts: 3,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
Actually, that's not always true......Sorry, been racing for a couple decades, and this is a pet peeve of mine: the unfounded hatred of automatic transmissions and the "automatic" labeling of people with automatics as "non drivers" and automatic equipped performance cars as a waste. It simply isn't true.

::crickets:: No takers on this?

Who's gonna argue with experience?
.
.
__________________

Bav's Favorite Track Vehicle
Posts Deleted for Use of Profanity = 2
BavarianWheels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2004, 06:28 PM   #39
Vaspier
CF Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 54
Noooo thank you. Personally, I love this man. Knows so much and explains it so damn well.

Reminds me of my friend, he wants to buy a new camaro but with an automatic. I don't have a problem with this, my car is auto, my dads car is auto, my dads old truck is auto. I think they are perfectly fine. But my other friend who owns a '95 civic hatchback manual flipped out on him about it, saying don't buy a sports car with an auto or you will look like a fag. Thats just a good example of how people can be narrow minded. I don't think my friend with the civic has ever really driven an auto car, he ABSOLUTLY insists everything has to be a manual for it to be fun. I fail to see the logic in that but whatever. I think that its alot more fun just like Chris said, working the brake and steering, not shifting from second to third.
__________________
Mopar love.

Embrace the Dart.
Vaspier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2004, 06:39 PM   #40
BavarianWheels
Supreme Demagogue
 
BavarianWheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: So. Cal.
Posts: 3,154
.
.
While I can agree out of ignorance that custom auto transmissions are quicker on the track (I have no real reason to doubt it), It is my opinion that manual is much more fun than auto. I do like the handling aspect of a good car, the stopping capability, and the "no fear" attitude the package brings to the enthusiast and the whole driving experience.

Having said that, I still prefer the power feel I get from changing gears and chirping the tires throughout...ok I can only get a chirp from 1st to 2nd and from 2nd to 3rd...but it still feels really good!!!

...and if I happen to edge out an auto ricer...with my old BMW's...5 spds...all the better.

My wife drives the auto... ...and I love the V8 power it has.
.
.
__________________

Bav's Favorite Track Vehicle
Posts Deleted for Use of Profanity = 2
BavarianWheels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2004, 06:46 PM   #41
Vaspier
CF Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 54
Not to be rude Bav. are you saying that only manual tranny cars can chrip the tires when changing gears? If thats the case, then i guess my brothers old camaro had a sort of sound devise that played the sound everytime it changed gears, same goes with my car. Again, I'm not trying to start anything, just letting you know that a manual is not needed to chirp the tires.
__________________
Mopar love.

Embrace the Dart.
Vaspier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2004, 06:52 PM   #42
ChrisV
The Big Meaney
 
ChrisV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: People's Republic of Maryland
Posts: 3,714
Quote:
Originally Posted by BavarianWheels
.
.
While I can agree out of ignorance that custom auto transmissions are quicker on the track (I have no real reason to doubt it), It is my opinion that manual is much more fun than auto. I do like the handling aspect of a good car, the stopping capability, and the "no fear" attitude the package brings to the enthusiast and the whole driving experience.

Having said that, I still prefer the power feel I get from changing gears and chirping the tires throughout...ok I can only get a chirp from 1st to 2nd and from 2nd to 3rd...but it still feels really good!!!

...and if I happen to edge out an auto ricer...with my old BMW's...5 spds...all the better.

My wife drives the auto... ...and I love the V8 power it has.
.
.


My V8 RX7 with the B&M AOD automatic could bark the tires into every gear, inlcuding overdrive under full throttle. If you backed out of it, it shifted firm and quick, but not so harsh as to slam the car around.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good car with a good manual transmision. Unfortunately, a lot of them really aren't all that good. And for commuting, shifting to neutral, then first, then neutral, first again, on and off the clutch, then maybe second, then back to first, then on to second, maybe third, back to second, back to first, back to second, baci to first, back to neutral, ad infinitum, it can suck what little fun there is IN shifting right out of it, and go into negative fun... And even on my current commute, where I dont' have to deal with that, out of 15 minutes of driving, less than 2 minutes total time is spent using th eclutch, and it's ALWAYS for coming to a stop, or accellerating from a light, and none of it is really "fun." What I mean is, on the commute, it's no more fun to shift the Fiat Spyder than it is to let the Jaguar shift itself. The things that make the Fiat more "fun" have nothing to do with the transmission, and everything to do with the fact it's a small, agile, convertible sports car with a fun exhaust note, and in good weather, the breezes flowing around you.

If I drive up the Jersey Turnpike, most of the time I'm not shifting whether I'm in the Jag or the PT Cruiser, so the type of transmission really never comes into play.

The main thing is, occasionally a manual transmision can be "more fun" than an automatic. But I can see enough situations that are the opposite. My RX7 was more fun than a 5 speed Yugo, for example. And if you go someplace like F1 Boston, to the indoor Grand Prix kart tracks, or to Malibu Grand Prix, you can have huge amounts of fun driving and you never shift even once...
__________________
I'm not mean. You're just a wuss.



www.midatlantic7s.com
ChrisV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2004, 07:10 PM   #43
BavarianWheels
Supreme Demagogue
 
BavarianWheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: So. Cal.
Posts: 3,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaspier
Not to be rude Bav. are you saying that only manual tranny cars can chrip the tires when changing gears? If thats the case, then i guess my brothers old camaro had a sort of sound devise that played the sound everytime it changed gears, same goes with my car. Again, I'm not trying to start anything, just letting you know that a manual is not needed to chirp the tires.

Not taken as rude.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that I LIKE MAKING THE ENGINE/TRANSMISSION CAUSE THE CHIRP (not a yell...but emphasis) I don't doubt it is fun to drive an car with an auto trans. that can chirp through the gears...I just feel it is more fun when it is my driving style and experience (in my car) to do it. (others have driven my car and cannot chirp the tires...I just know my car, is all.)

And the RX V8...well no doubt that would be fun...but that is a customized car...all of mine are stock...with the exception of a stainless steel exhaust sys on the 528e and one of those cone K&N filters on the 325. When I'm consistently out running "customized" ricers in totally stock Bimmers...that's where the satisfaction hits home.
.
.
__________________

Bav's Favorite Track Vehicle
Posts Deleted for Use of Profanity = 2
BavarianWheels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2004, 07:14 PM   #44
Vaspier
CF Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by BavarianWheels
Not taken as rude.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that I LIKE MAKING THE ENGINE/TRANSMISSION CAUSE THE CHIRP (not a yell...but emphasis) I don't doubt it is fun to drive an car with an auto trans. that can chirp through the gears...I just feel it is more fun when it is my driving style and experience (in my car) to do it. (others have driven my car and cannot chirp the tires...I just know my car, is all.)

.
.

Ah, I got ya. Thanks for clearing that up Bav.
__________________
Mopar love.

Embrace the Dart.
Vaspier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2004, 08:24 PM   #45
ChrisV
The Big Meaney
 
ChrisV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: People's Republic of Maryland
Posts: 3,714
Sorry, double...
__________________
I'm not mean. You're just a wuss.



www.midatlantic7s.com

Last edited by ChrisV : 03-05-2004 at 08:30 PM. Reason: Double post
ChrisV is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:50 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2002 - 2011 Car Forums. All rights reserved.