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Old 11-01-2005, 06:28 PM   #61
thunderbird1100
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Originally Posted by importluva
I have no idea where you are pulling that from but im not so sure. The new Subaru corporate face seems to have the Alfa look which is coming from their new head designer. Also, the Tribeca is hella uglier than the STi front, look at this:

vs

IMO the new STi face is very nice. Additionally, MT did a 06 STI vs 06 MR and the STI won for a change.
Finally, Toyota is taking over GM's share in FHI. So expect some Subayotas :p


I dont see how there is no denying the STi front grill area looks like the B9 Tribeca, you must be blind. The same exact ugly center grill and the side grills on the STi are just shortened versions of the B9's. I dont think you can ever pull a clear winner out of the STi vs. Evo. Everyone knows the EVO handles a little better while the STi is a little faster. They each have their own winning attribute per buyer choice. IF I were to pick a clear cut winner though I';d pick the EVO simply because they offer a base version (the RS) for $5000 less than the STi and it has nearly equal performance. That's the STi's shortcoming it has no "base" STi model (Stripped model) to compete. Would be nice if Subaru offered the $24k WRX a $28k-$29k base STi and then the $33k STi. Going up nearly $10k from a WRX to an STi is a healthy jump.
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Old 11-01-2005, 06:29 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by ChrisV
The B9 was ALSO designed by Andreas Zapatinas, the Alfa designer that did the Impreza, as well as most of the modern Alfa sedans and hatches. If you paid more attention to cars like those (which we don't get in the US) you'd know it.

http://www.cardesignnews.com/news/wh...aru-zapat.html

Check out the similarities to various Alfas...







.........................





I see, but doesnt GM own Alfa too>?
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Old 11-01-2005, 07:17 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
I see, but doesnt GM own Alfa too>?
i thought Fiat did?
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Old 11-01-2005, 08:48 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Inygknok
i thought Fiat did?

Damn I'm confused as hell now. I thought all euro companies were owned/partially owned (Stock wise) by a major company EXCLUDING BMW & Ferrari. MB I know is Daimler Chrysler, Porsche - VW, Jag/Land Rover - Ford..etc.
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Old 11-01-2005, 10:30 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
Damn I'm confused as hell now. I thought all euro companies were owned/partially owned (Stock wise) by a major company EXCLUDING BMW & Ferrari. MB I know is Daimler Chrysler, Porsche - VW, Jag/Land Rover - Ford..etc.

You shouldn't be confused. You said the B9 and the WRX used a GM designed body. Both were designed by the former Alfa designer, following very obvious Alfa cues. Yes, GM owned both Alfa and Subaru, but, Andreas was designer for Alfa before GM, and GM merely helped him transfer to Subaru when the Alfa leadershipo decided hey wanted a differnt direction for teh new range of sports cars.

GM did not influence Alfa design, nor did they influence Subaru design with Andreas.

As to the rest, Porsche is not owned by VW. Ferrari is owned by Fiat (as are Lancia and Maserati, and shortly Alfa again).

.......................

I also do not think the B9 tribeca is a successful design, but not due to the center grille. For me it's the headlight placement. Had the headlights been next to the side grilles or right above them instead of way up high, it would have been more conventional and looked more like the Alfa sedans. That's why I like the WRX. The headlights are more agressive, and their placement at teh grille sides is more "normal." The center grille opening doesn't bother me as there are a LOT of cars I've liked over the years with that sort of central grille bulge, from my '73 RX3, to the BMW 6 series.
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Old 11-01-2005, 10:35 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by ChrisV
You shouldn't be confused. You said the B9 and the WRX used a GM designed body. Both were designed by the former Alfa designer, following very obvious Alfa cues. Yes, GM owned both Alfa and Subaru, but, Andreas was designer for Alfa before GM, and GM merely helped him transfer to Subaru when the Alfa leadershipo decided hey wanted a differnt direction for teh new range of sports cars.

GM did not influence Alfa design, nor did they influence Subaru design with Andreas.

As to the rest, Porsche is not owned by VW. Ferrari is owned by Fiat (as are Lancia and Maserati, and shortly Alfa again).

.......................

I also do not think the B9 tribeca is a successful design, but not due to the center grille. For me it's the headlight placement. Had the headlights been next to the side grilles or right above them instead of way up high, it would have been more conventional and looked more like the Alfa sedans. That's why I like the WRX. The headlights are more agressive, and their placement at teh grille sides is more "normal." The center grille opening doesn't bother me as there are a LOT of cars I've liked over the years with that sort of central grille bulge, from my '73 RX3, to the BMW 6 series.


I thought VW had a lot of Porsche stock? Hmmm, oh well. Why did VW and Porsche did the joint venture with the Cayenne/Toureg?
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Old 11-01-2005, 11:07 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
I thought VW had a lot of Porsche stock? Hmmm, oh well. Why did VW and Porsche did the joint venture with the Cayenne/Toureg?

Porsche has worked with VW on a LOT of stuff over the years. Considering both companies were started by building vehciles from Porsche... But that's as far as it goes. Porsche is an independant company, partnering with others occasionally.

Remember, Ford and VW partnered making the Galaxy/Sharan minivan in Europe, but Ford and VW have no ownership or merger status...
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Old 11-01-2005, 11:30 PM   #68
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Wait, I thought Ferdinand Porsche helped design some of the earlier VW's
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Old 11-01-2005, 11:39 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by 99integra
Wait, I thought Ferdinand Porsche helped design some of the earlier VW's

He did. After Porsche's success, the German government asked him to design a cheap version so that ordinary folk can afford one. Hence the early beetles, and their resemblence of a squished up porsche. This is what i heard, im not sure if its completely true.

Audi is owned by VW though right? Wait, what about MG Rover? Who owns them?
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Old 11-02-2005, 12:22 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by 99integra
Wait, I thought Ferdinand Porsche helped design some of the earlier VW's

that's what I SAID!!!!!!!

Both companies started out by building vehicles by Porsche/ Porsche de3signed teh Beetle, then used custom Beetle parts to make teh first Porsche prototypes after the war.

BUT

The Beetle was started in the '30s. Dr. Porsche had designed a few inexpensive cars that he thought were more important than the Mercedes race cars he had engineered up to that point. Hitler was looking for a cheap, rugged car to get the German people on the road. They were introduced and in '37, Porsche created the first prototypes. Production however, never really got going as the war took over the factory.

AFTER WWII, the British rebuilt the bombed VW factory, and created the company now known as Volkswagen, turning it back over to the Germans in a couple years. in '48, Ferdinand Porsche and his son created the first Porsche sports car from VW parts. That car evolved into the Porsche 356 and the start of the Porsche company. A SEPARATE entity from VW.
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Old 11-02-2005, 12:27 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by aerith
He did. After Porsche's success, the German government asked him to design a cheap version so that ordinary folk can afford one. Hence the early beetles, and their resemblence of a squished up porsche. This is what i heard, im not sure if its completely true.

Not even close. IN fact, it's reversed, as I described above.

Quote:
Audi is owned by VW though right? Wait, what about MG Rover? Who owns them?

Audi is part of VAG (the VW/Audi Group). MG Rover was owned by BMW for a short time, then split up, with a private company (Phoenix) owning the car portion and Ford getting the truck division.

In July of this year, MG Rover Group was sold to Nanjing Automobile (Group) Corporation

http://www.ukmediacentre.pwc.com/con...4&NewsAreaID=2
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Old 11-02-2005, 12:28 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by ChrisV
that's what I SAID!!!!!!!
Damn I was just asking and I found no evidence of your saying that so could you please show me where?
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Old 11-02-2005, 01:05 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by 99integra
Damn I was just asking and I found no evidence of your saying that so could you please show me where?

the post directly above the one where you asked, dumbass! Almost a half a f*cking hour before you posted!

"Considering both companies were started by building vehicles from Porsche... But that's as far as it goes"
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Old 11-02-2005, 01:25 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
I thought VW had a lot of Porsche stock? Hmmm, oh well. Why did VW and Porsche did the joint venture with the Cayenne/Toureg?
Actually it's the other way around.

http://www.porsche.com/usa/aboutpors...&id=2005-10-07
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Old 11-02-2005, 01:26 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by vwhobo
Actually it's the other way around.

http://www.porsche.com/usa/aboutpors...&id=2005-10-07

Comes up saying this.

http://www.porsche.com/Error/500.htm
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