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Old 11-03-2005, 11:12 PM   #16
Wally
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I wouldn't mind a nice little TVR to play in.
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Old 11-03-2005, 11:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pik_d
chrisV, wrong video ya got there.

Fixed the link

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oh... and how did the price breakdown for that car ya built for the scca? (i'm assuming you built it for the scca? if not, what then?)

Built for BSCC rules, actually. Started with a $400 '81 Mustang Cobra (w/turbo 2.3 liter) for $400. Sold the engine and trans for $400. Bought '70 Mercury station wagon w/460 for $100. scrapped the wagon and used the engine, trans, and rear. Put $1500 onto the engine (ported the heads, 429 SCJ cam, .030 overbore, 10.5:1 pistons, headers, Edelbrock intake and used Holley). Put $150 into the trans (shift kit, tighter converter). $70 into driveshaft. KYB Gas-A-Just shocks all around, lowered springs, and Global West front A arms (revised geometry). Also added a Quikor front and rear swaybar, 1 1/2" in front and 1" in rear (farkin' HUGE). Got a good deal on a set of 16" Ronals and Yokohama A008RSII tires, used. Should've spent more money on brakes, as they tended to fade easy hauling down into turn 2 at SIR. other than that, the body and interior were stock. I ended up stripping the stripes off and giving it a nice black paintjob for it's new owner, who drove it on the track and daily (and at least once a month even in the winter back and forth between Seattle and Cour d'Alene, Idaho) for 10 years...

Other than wheels and tires, I could duplicate that car right now for pretty much the same cost. Of course, I'd rather do it with a different car, something a little more "oddball" like a Mustang II or a Maverick.
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Old 11-03-2005, 11:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 83$+hax0revA
OK, so there's like 10 bazillion "which car would you take for free?" threads. My thread, is "Why would you take any of them?" Yeah supercars look awesome and go really fast. Other than that, what do they do? Nearly everyone of them guzzles fuel at a rate that would make them unusable to commute in, parts would be insanely expensive and driving more than an hour would make your ass feel like you just drove 1900 mikles straight in a Subaru Loyale. Except for the occasional "I feel like tearing around downtown at 140, maybe give the cops something to do" Who cares about a $1M toy when you could build something just as fast, that you could be proud of, for a fraction of the cost, that would actually be reliable and reasonable to drive?
If you can afford to buy a Supercar....you can afford to run it, you can also afford another, more comfy car for that daily commute...in most cases. And to be honest, I'd happily sacrifice a nice comfy ride, for out-n-out pace and a bloody good stereo....(Good old driving music lol)
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Old 11-04-2005, 03:46 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
I seriously doubt you've spent significant time in Corvettes and Vipers on teh track.

Let me put it to you this way. I built this car for $4500



600 hp, 700 lb ft of torque, and over 1 G of lateral grip. it was DESIGNED to go around corners. In pretty much any track situation, it would have no problem keeping up with your Diablo. Saying that American muscle can be built up to go fast in a straight line but can't corner is extremely ignorant.

Amazing, I have a question though, do you ever build and sell cars for people?
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Old 11-04-2005, 07:18 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pythias
Amazing, I have a question though, do you ever build and sell cars for people?
haha, i was thinking the same exact thing...
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Old 11-04-2005, 01:54 PM   #21
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I used to, but then the labor was counted, and the cost went up. When it's a hobby, labor doesn't count as it isn't time that would have been making money otherwise.
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Old 11-04-2005, 04:04 PM   #22
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ChrisV- I have spent time in Lotus and Lambo's on the track, ...but the difference is these were STOCK vehicles-right off the showroom floor. Take a stock vette or stock viper or stock Mustang the track-...that's what I was referring too. I don't follow/compete in racing as rigorously as you may, but I was referring to stock vehicles. Sorry about the misunderstanding, I should have clarified.
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Old 11-04-2005, 06:33 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiabloSV
ChrisV- I have spent time in Lotus and Lambo's on the track, ...but the difference is these were STOCK vehicles-right off the showroom floor. Take a stock vette or stock viper or stock Mustang the track-...that's what I was referring too. I don't follow/compete in racing as rigorously as you may, but I was referring to stock vehicles. Sorry about the misunderstanding, I should have clarified.

My bet is a STOCK Viper or the new Z06 will happily give a Gallardo a run for its money around any track.
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Old 11-04-2005, 06:36 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiabloSV
ChrisV- I have spent time in Lotus and Lambo's on the track, ...but the difference is these were STOCK vehicles-right off the showroom floor. Take a stock vette or stock viper or stock Mustang the track-...that's what I was referring too. I don't follow/compete in racing as rigorously as you may, but I was referring to stock vehicles. Sorry about the misunderstanding, I should have clarified.

Well, the original poster said:

"Who cares about a $1M toy when you could build something just as fast, that you could be proud of, for a fraction of the cost, that would actually be reliable and reasonable to drive?"

Not talking about a stock car, but one you could build.

Then x1/9 posted:

"Well I could probably throw a 70's Camaro together that would beat your Lamborghini Diablo in the 1/4 mile for 1/64 the price including the price of the car."

Not talking about a stock car, but one he could build.

And you said:

"And I can buy a dragster too.. you probably could put together a 70's american made..anything that could 0-60 in 3.6sec, but as soon as you came into a turn- ....you'd be in the trees/bushes..."

Even YOU were talking about building a quick American car, not a STOCK one. And that statement was, in fact, completely mistaken. So I showed you one that I DID build that was dirt cheap and had more cornering grip and ability than your car. Proving that not only can older American muscle be built to accellerate AND handle, but it doesn't take a giant bank account or a dot.com income to do it.

As for the question of stock Vette/Viper etc on the track, they work EXCEPTIONALLY well, and beat expensive Euros on road race tracks regularly. You said it yourself, you don't follow racing that closely. So making a statement of absolutes as though you DO is a mistake.

Simply put, you have the money to buy an extremely nice car, but you really have very little PRACTICAL experience with a wide range of performance machinery, and have formed "concrete" opinions just like any typical Eurosnob. Those opinions are based very little on any factual knowledge. Only what you hear from other Eurosnobs or Eurosnob journalists.

I don't begrudge you your car or your money, and am not jealous or envious of it. If I had the money, I'd be playing with cars like that, too, as well as building my own.
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Last edited by ChrisV : 11-04-2005 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 11-04-2005, 06:47 PM   #25
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pffff...

Even vette could blow off any lambo. I bet you could post some pictures that prove that you do have lambo. (I could bet if I would want to loose) Viper is unbeatable... No question abut that... BYE!!!
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Old 11-04-2005, 09:07 PM   #26
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Gents- My apologies. This is about building cars now? I thought this was a SuperCar thread...anyway, until you have driven one (Lamborghini...extensively)..and not just believed what you read or what is written- none of you can say a word.

"....So I showed you one that I DID build that was dirt cheap and had more cornering grip and ability than your car. ...."

Cheap-... yes. More "cornering grip and ability"....hmmmm....

That's right.... I always hear about Mustangs other American Muscle winning the 24Hour LeMans races...

..."As for the question of stock Vette/Viper etc on the track, they work EXCEPTIONALLY well, and beat expensive Euros on road race tracks regularly."

Who has the most wins in road racing internationally.....? Starts with an F, right? You're really into racing aren't you?

"...Simply put, you have the money to buy an extremely nice car, but you really have very little PRACTICAL experience with a wide range of performance machinery, and have formed "concrete" opinions just like any typical Eurosnob."

Answer- Yes I do. And how the hell do you know my experience? I've owned over 40 vehicles, most of which you will never even sit in- let alone ever own. And I have driven them extensivley- 90 % being "Eurosnob" exotics (so eloquently put) and 10% that does include Viper 99' and Corvette 89'....and a Plymouth Prowler- don't ask - I wasn't myself that day).

And easy on the Eurosnob comment, I'm not calling you a cousin banging, Mustang drivin' Hillbilly- alright.


And you ARE right I may not have the racing experience that you do with American vehicles or with racing for that fact- then again I'm probably half your age.
These aren't "concrete" opinions, but track data (which you should know about) will answer most of what you stated regarding any Vette or Viper. Do you agree?


Wait a second I almost forgot...(read on)

...it's a great big conspiracy with all people in a fortunate position and all the "Eurosnob" journalists feeding the propaganda to the world.
You're such a hippocrite- you've never raced a Lambo or other exotic...yet you base YOUR beliefs on the biased white trash journalism you read...what the F***?

....boy you're smarter than I thought.You've figured all us rich folk out!!!!

And ngluvakov...have ever driven any of the above mentioned vehicles?
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Old 11-04-2005, 09:22 PM   #27
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and if you read the post - I'm the only one here defending the "Supercars"....go figure...
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Old 11-04-2005, 09:33 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiabloSV
Gents- My apologies. This is about building cars now? I thought this was a SuperCar thread...anyway, until you have driven one (Lamborghini...extensively)..and not just believed what you read or what is written- none of you can say a word.

"....So I showed you one that I DID build that was dirt cheap and had more cornering grip and ability than your car. ...."

Cheap-... yes. More "cornering grip and ability"....hmmmm....

That's right.... I always hear about Mustangs other American Muscle winning the 24Hour LeMans races...

..."As for the question of stock Vette/Viper etc on the track, they work EXCEPTIONALLY well, and beat expensive Euros on road race tracks regularly."

Who has the most wins in road racing internationally.....? Starts with an F, right? You're really into racing aren't you?

"...Simply put, you have the money to buy an extremely nice car, but you really have very little PRACTICAL experience with a wide range of performance machinery, and have formed "concrete" opinions just like any typical Eurosnob."

Answer- Yes I do. And how the hell do you know my experience? I've owned over 40 vehicles, most of which you will never even sit in- let alone ever own. And I have driven them extensivley- 90 % being "Eurosnob" exotics (so eloquently put) and 10% that does include Viper 99' and Corvette 89'....and a Plymouth Prowler- don't ask - I wasn't myself that day).

And easy on the Eurosnob comment, I'm not calling you a cousin banging, Mustang drivin' Hillbilly- alright.


And you ARE right I may not have the racing experience that you do with American vehicles or with racing for that fact- then again I'm probably half your age.
These aren't "concrete" opinions, but track data (which you should know about) will answer most of what you stated regarding any Vette or Viper. Do you agree?


Wait a second I almost forgot...(read on)

...it's a great big conspiracy with all people in a fortunate position and all the "Eurosnob" journalists feeding the propaganda to the world.
You're such a hippocrite- you've never raced a Lambo or other exotic...yet you base YOUR beliefs on the biased white trash journalism you read...what the F***?

....boy you're smarter than I thought.You've figured all us rich folk out!!!!

And ngluvakov...have ever driven any of the above mentioned vehicles?

DAYUM
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Old 11-04-2005, 09:45 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiabloSV
Gents- My apologies. This is about building cars now? I thought this was a SuperCar thread...

It was from the first post. read it again (and teh part I quoted in my LAST post.)

On top of that, YOU responded to a statement made specifically about building a '70s American car, saying it would STILL not handle. Which was wrong.

And NOW you act all surprised as though you NEVER knew ANYONE was talking about cars you could BUILD instead of spending a ton of money on supercars? Give me a break.



Quote:
anyway, until you have driven one (Lamborghini...extensively)..and not just believed what you read or what is written- none of you can say a word.

Sorry, in my last 27 years of driving, I've driven Lamborghinis, A lotus twin turbo, a number of ferraris including an F40, as well as a number of VERY fast Porsches. (Not only have I been an SCCA member for 25 years, I've been a PCA member, having owned a number of Porsches including a regional championship winning autocrosser). And I've seen them in action with nationally competetive drivers. I've also competed against them in much less expensive machinery. So I believe I can say vastly more than a word or two on the subject.

But to turn that phrase back on you, until YOU have driven a car like that Mustang I built, YOU need to stop making generalizations about AMerican cars.

Quote:
"....So I showed you one that I DID build that was dirt cheap and had more cornering grip and ability than your car. ...."

Cheap-... yes. More "cornering grip and ability"....hmmmm....

That's right.... I always hear about Mustangs other American Muscle winning the 24Hour LeMans races...

Don't start being an immature asshat. Ford entered Le Mans with the GT40 back in the day. But then they concentrated on providing engines for F1. But yes, Americans have done QUITE nicely at LeMans, with the Vipers and Corvettes dominating their classes. Have you not heard of Team Oreca?

And in classes where Ford HAS entered Mustangs, like the Grand Am challenge, they regularly beat the Porsches BMW M3s they run against Including at tracks like Laguna Seca.



None of that matters to the fact that my old Mustang made over 1 G of lateral grip, and your SV does NOT. My cheap ass RX7 with the Ford V8 made even MORE.

Quote:
..."As for the question of stock Vette/Viper etc on the track, they work EXCEPTIONALLY well, and beat expensive Euros on road race tracks regularly."

Who has the most wins in road racing internationally.....? Starts with an F, right? You're really into racing aren't you?

Again with the immature idiocy. Ferrari started racing in '48 under his own banner. When was the first year of the Viper? Just because one company ENTERS more races doesn't mean the others aren't as good at it. Again, look at lap times at the Ring, or results from CURRENT LeMans races. Since the Viper was introduced and since GM has gone back to international racing, their cars ARE competetive and regularly beat the other cars.

BTW, When was Lamborgini's last LeMans win? If you're using that as proof that the supercars like your SV are superior, you want to point to where Lamborghini beat the Viper or Corvette on the track?

Of course, the Diablo was developed while Lamborghini was OWNED by Chrysler, and Lamborghini did the development work on the Viper's aluminum V10, but hey, why quibble about small things like that...


Quote:
Answer- Yes I do. And how the hell do you know my experience? I've owned over 40 vehicles, most of which you will never even sit in- let alone ever own. And I have driven them extensivley- 90 % being "Eurosnob" exotics (so eloquently put) and 10% that does include Viper 99' and Corvette 89'....and a Plymouth Prowler- don't ask - I wasn't myself that day).
[


And that's "Practical" experience? How many ****ing WRENCHES have you ever dirtied your little hands with? Ooooh, writing a check for an exotic certainly makes you the expert on how the f*ckers work. If you have no experience with BUILDING a car to do what you want, then NO, you do NOT have any f*cking practical experience. I've owned over a hundred cars, and worked on hundreds more, including being part of building the team Seattle Porsche GT3s that won at Sebring in the late '90s.

You might, stress MIGHT, have some magazine reading knowledge of how suspensions work, but I've engineered and built suspensions for Formula cars and sports racers. I know what handles good and what doesn't and what it takes to make cars handle good. And I can guarantee you I can outdrive you in anything you've got. You're the kind of eliteist prick I LOVED wiping up the track with in some POS I threw together the previous weekend on a dare.

Quote:
And easy on the Eurosnob comment, I'm not calling you a cousin banging, Mustang drivin' Hillbilly- alright.

Well, I don't have a Mustang and you ARE a eurosnob. Especially after that buit about how you've ONLY owned exotics. calling me a cousin bangin', Mustang drivin' hillbilly would require me to actually HAVE a Mustang NOW, actually ever banged a cousin, and been a "hillbilly.' Whereas calling you a eurosnob only requires you to be snobbish about how much better Euro cars are than anything else. Hmm. Guess what? You DID that. Asshat.


Quote:
[
You're such a hippocrite- you've never raced a Lambo or other exotic...yet you base YOUR beliefs on the biased white trash journalism you read...what the F***?

jokes on you. I read all the same magazines as you. and I HAVE raced exotics, and LOVE them. But I'm not a narrowminded, ignorant POS, like you. I like ALL cars, cheap OR expensive. Hell, my first post in this thread was DEFENDING supercars to the guy the started the thread. If you were capable of actually READING, yo'd know that. But after defending supercars, I had to address a completely f*cking ignorant and insulting statement YOU made.
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Last edited by ChrisV : 11-04-2005 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 11-04-2005, 09:49 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by DiabloSV
and if you read the post - I'm the only one here defending the "Supercars"....go figure...

if you read my FIRST post in the thread, you'd see that that isn't true. *I* was defending them.

So you're wrong yet again.
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