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Old 11-10-2005, 01:13 AM   #1
Shift4
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First Car Questions

Hey guys, I originally wanted an S-10 Xtreme for a first car and have been saving for a while now although I think I would want a faster car (its in my blood ) and a Z28 Camaro seems great. I thought the insurance would be a LOT more but come to find out its like an extra thousand a year. . . not TOO bad considering its a first car so insurance will kill me anyway. BUT, I had always read that you had to run premium in the SS Camaro - this is probably the same in the Z28 considering the only difference is that it doesnt have forced induction right?? Is premium absolutely neccessary to have it run good - could you just maybe octane boost it or something?

What would a stock Z28 run (manual six speed) and are they reliable? My dad says no but i think hes being hypocritical considering he had about 3 69 camaros and a chevelle. . .
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Old 11-10-2005, 01:52 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift4
Hey guys, I originally wanted an S-10 Xtreme for a first car and have been saving for a while now although I think I would want a faster car (its in my blood ) and a Z28 Camaro seems great. I thought the insurance would be a LOT more but come to find out its like an extra thousand a year. . . not TOO bad considering its a first car so insurance will kill me anyway. BUT, I had always read that you had to run premium in the SS Camaro - this is probably the same in the Z28 considering the only difference is that it doesnt have forced induction right?? Is premium absolutely neccessary to have it run good - could you just maybe octane boost it or something?

What would a stock Z28 run (manual six speed) and are they reliable? My dad says no but i think hes being hypocritical considering he had about 3 69 camaros and a chevelle. . .

The SS and the Z28 are naturally aspirated motors (no such thing as a factory forced induction F-body... except that 3.8L Firebird in the '80's). Yes they are reliable, yes they're fast, yes you should always run premium. Think about it, a bottle of octane booster with a full tank of gas... bottle of octane booster ~$3.00, extra cost of using premium gasoline... about $3.00. So, stop whining about premium. What is it with people. I run premium in all of my vehicles, necesssary or not... you're seriously never going to nice the extra couple bucks.

The six speed F-bodies can get fastastic mileage if you drive them right. My brother got 31mpg in a six speed '95 Pontiac Firehawk (that's if you can manage to keep your foot out of it ).
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Old 11-10-2005, 02:00 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift4
Hey guys, I originally wanted an S-10 Xtreme for a first car and have been saving for a while now although I think I would want a faster car (its in my blood ) and a Z28 Camaro seems great. I thought the insurance would be a LOT more but come to find out its like an extra thousand a year. . . not TOO bad considering its a first car so insurance will kill me anyway. BUT, I had always read that you had to run premium in the SS Camaro - this is probably the same in the Z28 considering the only difference is that it doesnt have forced induction right?? Is premium absolutely neccessary to have it run good - could you just maybe octane boost it or something?

What would a stock Z28 run (manual six speed) and are they reliable? My dad says no but i think hes being hypocritical considering he had about 3 69 camaros and a chevelle. . .

First off, the SS doesnt have forced induction. If we're talking about the 1998-2002 Camaros the Z/28 and the SS have the same LS1 engine just tuned differently. The Z/28 is 305hp while the SS is 320+hp (goes up to like 335-340hp i think with packages). I might be wrong on this but I haven't checked in a long time but I believe the LS1 runs on premium. The LT1 also I believe runs on premium (94-97).

A stock 98-02 manual Z/28 should be in the high 13s (13.7-13.8) no problem down a 1/4 mile. As for experience with newer Camaros reliability seems to be hit and miss. Although I have seen more issues with the 3.8L V8 than the 5.7L LT1 or LS1. Then again, I've had a friend had to rebuild the LS1 because it spun a bearing or bent a valve or something... If you want hard factual statisitics on the Camaro go to www.jdpower.com and look up the ratings for long term mechanical reliability for the Camaro.
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Old 11-10-2005, 02:02 AM   #4
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I'd take it...it's definitely a very nice car IMO...especially if you want a fast car
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Old 11-10-2005, 02:03 AM   #5
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Holy crap! 31 MPG?! City or highway (i think u meant highway but I HOPE you mean combined! )? Yeah, I guess premium isnt too bad but it still kinda sucks. . . I guess if u put in 15 gallons (premium will probably always be about 20 cents more than regular right??) then you are seriously only paying an extra 3 bucks. . . but that adds up. . .

Would a Z28 be a good first car or not really? Some people think its too fast for a first car but I have good judgement (when needed ) and an S-10 would get slow running 16s after a while. . .

Whats the stock 0-60 and QM for a Z28?? Also, you said its reliable? Thats good. . . By forced induction I meant the ram air that you get with the SS (not really forced induction - wasnt thinking straight).
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Old 11-10-2005, 02:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift4
...Whats the stock 0-60 and QM for a Z28?? Also, you said its reliable? Thats good. . . By forced induction I meant the ram air that you get with the SS (not really forced induction - wasnt thinking straight).

What year? It would probably be around 14.5s for the quarter mile, and around 6s 0-60...but that's just an estimate...
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Old 11-10-2005, 02:16 AM   #7
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I was talking about the 1998-2002 (probably 98 or 99 to get it for cheaper)

What would be a realistic mileage with moderate driving (like some fast driving but just normal cruising mostly)? (Like 60%/40% for city/highway driving) WOW, this could actually turn out to be a practical rocket! Would it be about the same mileage as an S-10 Xtreme (4.3L 5 speed manual)? I wanted the GTI a little while ago but thats too much of a granny car without mods - granted its quick, the shifter is too long of a throw and the suspension isnt that great - this is better.
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Old 11-10-2005, 02:26 AM   #8
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You'd probably be looking at 17/24mpg, the quarter mile is around 13.6 seconds, and about 5.3 seconds 0-60

The S-10 Xtreme gets around 17/22mpg, so a bit better, with a 7.9 second 0-60, and 16 seconds in the 1/4 mile
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Old 11-10-2005, 02:34 AM   #9
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Which would you reccommend as a daily driver (if I can afford either!!), the SS or the Z28? I hear the Z28 has a more forgiving suspension while still being very handling capable. This would be nice because I am not going to feel like racing ALL the time (I hope - cut down on tickets). Also, the only things that give the SS more power are the functional ram air hood (I could just put my own on later right?) and the exhaust - i would get flowmasters

Is this a reliable good first car or is it a rocket that will kill me with its pricetag? (if it gets somewhat decent mileage maybe it will be acceptable if i can talk the parents into paying insurance - I think they will have to because I seriously cant afford it; 5-6000 bucks a year is RIDICULOUS) Also, these insurance quotes i have been looking at are for starting a completely NEW insurance plan - I would put it on my parents. they have a SPOTLESS record, and i would get the good grade discount - wouldnt that cut down significantly on the insurance prices? (i daresay 3,500?? maybe??)

Because if I could prove that the insurance wasnt hardly any more than an S-10 (my dad has long since thought an S-10 would be a perfectly practical first car, but he has camaro heritage and I know he cant resist the added perks that come with me buying one - his own personal gratification )
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Old 11-10-2005, 03:43 AM   #10
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What year Camaro are we talking about here?

PS- The only Forcefully Inducted F-body was the 89 Trans Am Turbo Pace Car, of which only 1555 were made.
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Old 11-10-2005, 07:01 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift4
Holy crap! 31 MPG?! City or highway (i think u meant highway but I HOPE you mean combined! )? Yeah, I guess premium isnt too bad but it still kinda sucks. . . I guess if u put in 15 gallons (premium will probably always be about 20 cents more than regular right??) then you are seriously only paying an extra 3 bucks. . . but that adds up. . .

Would a Z28 be a good first car or not really? Some people think its too fast for a first car but I have good judgement (when needed ) and an S-10 would get slow running 16s after a while. . .

Whats the stock 0-60 and QM for a Z28?? Also, you said its reliable? Thats good. . . By forced induction I meant the ram air that you get with the SS (not really forced induction - wasnt thinking straight).

31mpg is probably a record for an LS1 F-body...needless to say, that was a VERY much bit optimistic (unless your running down a 2 degree slope constantly at 60mph in 6th gear).

EPA rates the manual 98-02 Z/28 at 18mpg city and 27mpg highway. So 22.5mpg combined. Normally people see slightly less than what EPA says so I'd bet you're looking at about 20mpg overall 50/50 driving.

Like I said with an LS1 Z/28 you're looking at high 13s (13.7-13.8) for a 1/4 mile for sure. Ram air is in no way forced induction (ie, supercharger, turbocharger, nitrous, propane...). Ram air is really for looks, it maybe adds 1-2 extra hp, given you're traveling at 120mph.

As for reliability , like I said from my experience they seem to be hit and miss. If you want hard statistics go to jdpower.com.
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Old 11-10-2005, 07:07 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by PontiacFan27
What year Camaro are we talking about here?

PS- The only Forcefully Inducted F-body was the 89 Trans Am Turbo Pace Car, of which only 1555 were made.

'89 Turbo T/A. Best F-Body EVER made, IMO.



At a very underrated 250hp and 340tq. I've seen these things pull on LT1's no problem!
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Old 11-10-2005, 01:00 PM   #13
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So it is obviously a rocket with acceptable mileage, but is it a pracitcal daily driver, or would I be better off with the S-10 Xtreme or like a VW GTI?

Also, the ram air package on the SS (in conjunction with the slightly less restrictive exhaust) is supposed to give 15 extra horsepower - thats negligible and not worth the much stiffer suspension right?
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Old 11-10-2005, 05:37 PM   #14
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31mpg is probably a record for an LS1 F-body...needless to say, that was a VERY much bit optimistic (unless your running down a 2 degree slope constantly at 60mph in 6th gear).

EPA rates the manual 98-02 Z/28 at 18mpg city and 27mpg highway. So 22.5mpg combined. Normally people see slightly less than what EPA says so I'd bet you're looking at about 20mpg overall 50/50 driving.


31 mpg was a best ever mpg, it was during a trip to Las Vegas ('95 is an LT1 Firehawk), my brother was averaging 70-80mph in 6th gear, both 5th and 6th gears are overdrives. His car had a 3.42 final drive. It was much more common to get in the low-mid 20's for mileage.
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Old 11-10-2005, 05:42 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Shift4
So it is obviously a rocket with acceptable mileage, but is it a pracitcal daily driver, or would I be better off with the S-10 Xtreme or like a VW GTI?

Also, the ram air package on the SS (in conjunction with the slightly less restrictive exhaust) is supposed to give 15 extra horsepower - thats negligible and not worth the much stiffer suspension right?

Well, a Camaro is most likely going to get better mileage than the S-10 (4.3L V6), I don't know why you keep thinking the suspension of the SS is going to be a problem. If I were actually looking at an F-Body (did for a while) I'd ONLY be looking at the SS, WS-6, or Firehawks. It's not like they're much more expensive, they have a better suspension, and they have more power. Simple choice.
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