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Old 11-23-2005, 06:55 AM   #31
windsonian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
Well conventional flow is imaginary and flows +ve to -ve, whereas electron flow is actual and flows -ve to +ve.

People have trouble with electron flow theory because they have been brought up to think that high pressure forces things into a low pressure, therefore +12V must be high pressure voltage that squirts to the low voltage side..
Sorry, I think you mis-interpreted my original question ... I know the theory, which way do YOU consider it goes (kinda like a glass half full question...)?
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Old 11-23-2005, 07:15 AM   #32
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Well I don't subscribe to the imaginary. I do electronics, so I visualise in electron flow. So when confornted with a diode symbol I think of current flowing against the arrow (cathode to anode)
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Old 11-23-2005, 07:21 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Wally
Well I don't subscribe to the imaginary. I do electronics, so I visualise in electron flow. So when confornted with a diode symbol I think of current flowing against the arrow (cathode to anode)
... do you find it difficult conversing with others though, when trying to talk about current directions and flow paths?






Or are you a loner?
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Old 11-23-2005, 07:36 AM   #34
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Those who need to know it, already do; for those that don't, it won't make any difference to their lives. So no I don't talk about it.
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Old 11-23-2005, 07:58 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Wally
Those who need to know it, already do; for those that don't, it won't make any difference to their lives. So no I don't talk about it.
but no confusion discussing designs, say?
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Old 11-23-2005, 07:23 PM   #36
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Ok you hobo piece of shit.....before you start correcting people about things like this that you obviously know nothing about, maybe you should look some stuff up before you do so. The alternator powers the entire car while the vehicle is running while charging the battery. To prove this, find a car with a good working alternator. Now disconnect the battery. If everything is wired properly and someone like you hasn't worked on the car, it should stay running without the alternator. When the car is off, everything runs soley off the battery. His problem is that the car isn't starting because there is not enough power in the battery. If he puts a new battery in it, it will stay running until all the power in the battery is used up, because when the alternator is not running or working properly, the car then uses power from the battery. So the ECM will have enough power to run the engine until the battery dies. Trust me, I have many years of experience working on cars both at home and in an ASE certified garage. So anyway, another piece of advice for EVERYONE is not to take any advice from hobo so that nobody causes more problems than they already have. Good luck with your car kid.
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Old 11-23-2005, 07:37 PM   #37
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Oh, by the way...

Oh, and by the way....I dont know anyone who would take advice from anyone who calls himself hobo and refers to himself as an anal orifice. Honestly I think this is a cry for helf from a poor, neglected little boy who feels the need to talk down on people about a subject on which he knows nothing about just to get attention from people he dosn't even know to make himself feel important. Dude, I'm sorry your mother refused you her tit when you were a baby but damn, that was years ago.....GET THE F**K OVER IT and move on with your life.
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Old 11-23-2005, 07:38 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt4895
Ok you hobo piece of shit.....before you start correcting people about things like this that you obviously know nothing about, maybe you should look some stuff up before you do so. The alternator powers the entire car while the vehicle is running while charging the battery. To prove this, find a car with a good working alternator. Now disconnect the battery. If everything is wired properly and someone like you hasn't worked on the car, it should stay running without the alternator. When the car is off, everything runs soley off the battery. His problem is that the car isn't starting because there is not enough power in the battery. If he puts a new battery in it, it will stay running until all the power in the battery is used up, because when the alternator is not running or working properly, the car then uses power from the battery. So the ECM will have enough power to run the engine until the battery dies. Trust me, I have many years of experience working on cars both at home and in an ASE certified garage. So anyway, another piece of advice for EVERYONE is not to take any advice from hobo so that nobody causes more problems than they already have. Good luck with your car kid.
-Matt-
Oh, wow.

First off, don't call anyone here a POS.

In theory, vwhobo is right. The battery does infact supply power for everything, and the alternator's job is to maintain the battery. However, in the real world, it doesn't work that way, because it's exactly the way Wally explained it.

Quote:
To prove this, find a car with a good working alternator. Now disconnect the battery. If everything is wired properly and someone like you hasn't worked on the car, it should stay running without the alternator.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but there is a huge hole in your idiotic logic. You see, do the opposite of that, and tell me what happens. Yeah, when you disconnect your alternator while the car is running... OH MY GOD, the car is still running. It works both ways, idiot. You see, you have two power supplies. The battery, and the alternator. When the car is off, it's soley the alternator, When the car is on, it's both, but mainly the alternator. When running, disconnect the battery, everything will run off the alternator, do the opposite, everything will run off the battery.


Quote:
before you start correcting people about things like this that you obviously know nothing about, maybe you should look some stuff up before you do so.

Think about what I've just said to you, and think about what I last quoted from you. Ironic, pitiful, funny, and sad, all at the same time.

Sit down, shut up, learn.
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Old 11-23-2005, 07:44 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt4895
Oh, and by the way....I dont know anyone who would take advice from anyone who calls himself hobo and refers to himself as an anal orifice. Honestly I think this is a cry for helf from a poor, neglected little boy who feels the need to talk down on people about a subject on which he knows nothing about just to get attention from people he dosn't even know to make himself feel important. Dude, I'm sorry your mother refused you her tit when you were a baby but damn, that was years ago.....GET THE F**K OVER IT and move on with your life.
That kind of talk is purely idiotic. Besides the part about his mother refusing to breast feed him (are you 12 or 13?), He may be an asshole, he may call himself an Anal Orfice, but the fact is he is right 99.9% of the time on what he says in this forum. If his name is Jerkoff Vaginal Warts that doesn't affect the fact that you can take his advice.
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Old 11-23-2005, 07:47 PM   #40
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Ok yeah, disconnect the alternator while the car is running and yes the car will still run....but ONLY until the battery goes dead. Then, the car will stop running, and also will not start again unless a charged battery is installed.
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Old 11-23-2005, 07:49 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt4895
Ok yeah, disconnect the alternator while the car is running and yes the car will still run....but ONLY until the battery goes dead. Then, the car will stop running, and also will not start again unless a charged battery is installed.
That's right, but tell me that doesn't put a hole in your logic.


You owe vwhobo an apology.
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Old 11-23-2005, 08:20 PM   #42
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No it dosn't. While the car is running, the alternator puts out more than enough power run all the electrical components of the vehicle. After it uses the power it needs, it stores the rest of the power in the battery. If for some reason the alternator cannot supply the vehicle with the amount of power it demands, it will then begin draining the battery. The alternator could still be working, but only charging at less than 12 volts. A good strong alternator will charge at around 14 volts. Now, if the alternator stops working, and the car is just running off the battery, it will only run until the battery is dead right? And if you put a good charged battery in it, it will start and run.....until THAT battery is dead....right? So either way, wheather or not the battery runs off the alternator or the battery is not the point. The point is, if the battery keeps going dead, and thats why its not starting, the alternators probably shot. They start the car with a fully charged battery.....drive somewhere, then turn it off. When they try to start it again, there is not enough power in the battery so it won't turn over. As for stalling, their just running it off the battery until its dead. Considering that it ran for 4 days after puting a new battery in it, the alternator is probably working but not enough to keep the car running, so it starts slowly sucking down the battery. Therefore, it cannot recharge the battery, it just causes it to die slower than if the alternator was not working at all.
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Old 11-23-2005, 08:23 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by vwhobo
No Mister Moron, that's not what I said. As somebody who claims to be possibly the smartest human being alive AND works for the biggest and best cell phone company in the entire world, you should have a grasp on this. Even when batteries are properly recharged and maintained, THEY STILL WEAR OUT. When a battery wears out, no amount of charging will make it good again, all you can do is replace it.

Oh and by the way....the kid said he had already replaced the battery and it still keeps going dead so you saying he needs a battery dosn't make any sense anyways.
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Old 11-23-2005, 08:31 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt4895
No it dosn't. While the car is running, the alternator puts out more than enough power run all the electrical components of the vehicle. After it uses the power it needs, it stores the rest of the power in the battery. If for some reason the alternator cannot supply the vehicle with the amount of power it demands, it will then begin draining the battery. The alternator could still be working, but only charging at less than 12 volts. A good strong alternator will charge at around 14 volts. Now, if the alternator stops working, and the car is just running off the battery, it will only run until the battery is dead right? And if you put a good charged battery in it, it will start and run.....until THAT battery is dead....right? So either way, wheather or not the battery runs off the alternator or the battery is not the point.


1) Yes it does.
2) The alternator charges the battery while the battery and alternator simultaniously take on the task of suppling electricity to the vehicle's electrical system.
3) The output of an alternator can be out of your "14" voltage range under certain circumstances but yet still be normal.
4) Sure it'll run off the battery until the battery has not enough power to run the vehicle if the alternator craps out.
5) It's not the point? You said it was. Refresh your memory. "To prove this, find a car with a good working alternator. Now disconnect the battery. If everything is wired properly and someone like you hasn't worked on the car, it should stay running without the alternator. "



Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt4895
The point is, if the battery keeps going dead, and thats why its not starting, the alternators probably shot. They start the car with a fully charged battery.....drive somewhere, then turn it off. When they try to start it again, there is not enough power in the battery so it won't turn over. As for stalling, their just running it off the battery until its dead.

Could be the alternator. Same thing can happen with a perfectly fine alternator too. Could be a bad ground, loose connection, bad cables, corroded battery posts/cables, bad voltage regulator... should I go on?


Quote:
Considering that it ran for 4 days after puting a new battery in it, the alternator is probably working but not enough to keep the car running, so it starts slowly sucking down the battery. Therefore, it cannot recharge the battery, it just causes it to die slower than if the alternator was not working at all

That's why you tell people to have it tested instead of mubling out muble jumble about their alternator being bad.



Besides all of this, refer back to my first post in response to your attack on vwhobo, and lets get back on the point of you being wrong, me proving you wrong, you stop continuing to jump around trying to make sense of yourself, and shut up while you're ahead.
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Old 11-23-2005, 08:33 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt4895
Oh and by the way....the kid said he had already replaced the battery and it still keeps going dead so you saying he needs a battery dosn't make any sense anyways.
No where in that post of vwhobo's that you quoted did he say the guy needed a new battery. He stated that batteries wear out. That's it.
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