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Old 12-06-2005, 08:33 AM   #31
dodgerforlife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
You couldn't be more wrong about 'A'. There are MANY SRT-8 vehicles, hence why I said...

For the first part of the 2005 lineup, it was only one.

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Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
Here's the list of JUST the SRT-8 vehicles, there are a total of 11 SRT badged vehicles CURRENTLY, 4 of them are SRT-8...
Magnum SRT-8
Grand Cherokee SRT-8
Charger SRT-8
300C SRT-8

MOST of that list is due for 2006. I was referring to the SRT vehicles available for 2005.

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Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
B. I know DODGE "offically" doesn't use it. But they even SAY it's a Neon at the dealership if you're interested in one. And anyone who looks at the "Srt-4" then a "neon" easily notices they are the same vehicle just tuned differently. So what's wrong in calling it what it truely is (like ALL TEN other SRT badged vehicles...). Which is a Dodge Neon SRT-4. SRT-4 is just a trim level

"offically"? what in the blue hell are you blabbering about with those quotation marks. They do not use it, there is no gray area. I've never had a sales rep tell me it's a Neon/SX, they tell me it was based off the Neon/SX platform. And no shit it's easily noticable, I even said that. But look at the car, do you see any Neon/SX badging on it? N-O. The Civic Si will have the Civic badging, because it is truly called the Civic Si, whereas the SRT-4 is NOT called the NEON/SX SRT-4, so it does NOT have the NEON/SX badging. I don't even want to hear about how "it's just a badge", I know it is. The point I am trying to get across is that it is not truly a Neon/SX, it is the SRT-4.


Maybe you should take a closer look at that link you provided - It explicity says "Dodge SRT-4", not the "Dodge Neon SRT-4". Furthermore, with the exception of the Ram SRT-10 and the SRT-4, all the other SRT engines are simply bored out versions of what the standard packages have. The Ram SRT-10 got the bored out Viper engine, and the SRT-4 got a 2.4L DOHC turbocharged 4cylinder engine. I think that engine alone kind of sets it apart from the Neon....
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Old 12-06-2005, 08:48 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
I disagree, most people WON'T say it's an individual car. They say it's missing the "Neon" name, since it's EXACTLY the same concept of the Civic Si compared to the Civic DX/LX/EX coupe (at least Honda stayed consistent with their Si moniker...keeping the name of the vehicle they modded). Anyone who believes the "SRT-4" is its own separate car IS REALLY in denial.

Hmm, strange, most people I talk to call it the SRT-4, not a Neon. Never heard someone whine and bitch that it was missing the "Neon" name.

Look at the damn specs of the car, and tell me how the hell it is a Neon. 2nd gen Neons largely came with a 132hp 2.0L SOHC 4cyl. SRT-4....well, I already mentioned that one in the other post. 2nd gen Neons came with stock suspension. SRT-4...Tokico tuned sport suspension. 2nd gen Neons came with standard buckets and standard interior...SRT-4...Viper race buckets, interior more built for the sport side. 2nd gen Neons come with a very muffled single outlet exhaust....SRT-4....mufferless, resonated dual outs. The list goes on and on.

How much of a change is the Si to sayyyy the LX? A bored out DOHC engine, and slightly upgraded suspension. No wonder they kept the Civic name. No real big ****ing differences.
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Old 12-06-2005, 05:08 PM   #33
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Well there not that great cause Dodge isnt making them anymore...but there making that caliber thing in its place...but at least that doesnt have the NEON name in it
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Old 12-06-2005, 05:11 PM   #34
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And the only thing different between a Neon and a Srt 4 is the turbo...and suspension and some other stuff other than that its a NEON
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Old 12-06-2005, 06:35 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by IwantaSti
Well there not that great cause Dodge isnt making them anymore...

Well, that's a silly bit of logic. Ford doens't make the SVT Contour anymore, nor do they make the BOSS 302 Mustang. Those cars must not have been that great. The Porsche 928 and 944 must be bad because Porsche doesn't make them anymore. And who would want a Ferrari F355, as Ferrari themselves thought they needed to be replaced...
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Old 12-06-2005, 06:57 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgerforlife
For the first part of the 2005 lineup, it was only one.



MOST of that list is due for 2006. I was referring to the SRT vehicles available for 2005.



"offically"? what in the blue hell are you blabbering about with those quotation marks. They do not use it, there is no gray area. I've never had a sales rep tell me it's a Neon/SX, they tell me it was based off the Neon/SX platform. And no shit it's easily noticable, I even said that. But look at the car, do you see any Neon/SX badging on it? N-O. The Civic Si will have the Civic badging, because it is truly called the Civic Si, whereas the SRT-4 is NOT called the NEON/SX SRT-4, so it does NOT have the NEON/SX badging. I don't even want to hear about how "it's just a badge", I know it is. The point I am trying to get across is that it is not truly a Neon/SX, it is the SRT-4.


Maybe you should take a closer look at that link you provided - It explicity says "Dodge SRT-4", not the "Dodge Neon SRT-4". Furthermore, with the exception of the Ram SRT-10 and the SRT-4, all the other SRT engines are simply bored out versions of what the standard packages have. The Ram SRT-10 got the bored out Viper engine, and the SRT-4 got a 2.4L DOHC turbocharged 4cylinder engine. I think that engine alone kind of sets it apart from the Neon....


About 'A'. Nice way to DODGE out of that one, but it didnt make you look any smarter You never mentioned anything about 2005 models, but okay, I'll play along. BTW - It's the 2006 model year NOW, and it has been, for a good solid month or two. So stop living in the past. You can get every SRT8 vehicle I listed for a few months now...

By offically, I mean just what offically means, go look it up. Dodge (As a brand) does not call it a "Neon" but just "SRT-4" (like I said). But that doesnt change the fact EVERY dealer I've gone too (probably 6-7 Mopar dealers), at ALL of them the Neon SRT-4 was sitting next to a bunch of Neon SXT's and such. And when I asked about the SRT-4 they all promptly kept saying "the NEon SRT-4", "yeah it's basically a trim level of the Neon, still the same car just a hot rod version". I AGREE with you, it's not a separate car (obviously), but it IS a trim level (in all of Dodge's "no it isnt'"ness) of the base Neon and Neon SXT, JUST like the Civic Si is a trim level of the Civic LX/EX coupe. I don't care what Dodge wants people to think, it's just like ALL OTHER SRT vehicles, whether or not it uses the name of the car i nit or not, they just FORGOT to use it for some odd reason.

I dont even know why you blabbered on with the second paragraph. IT's all whatg I SAID... I said "it's the only SRT badged vehicle that doesnt have the name of the vehicle it's based off of".

And no, the enigne doesn't "Set it apart" from the Neon. BECAUSE IT'S STILL BASED OFF THE NEON AND HAS THE NEAR SAME BODY. IF the engine sets it apart from the Neon then the Civic Si, is set apart from the Civic (As it uses a whole new unrelated engine and tranny)! You make no sense! You're just as inconsistent as Mopar was in naming the SRT vehicles, but wors ein fact is you almost try and make yourself believe it's "set apart from the Neon".

I've come to this conclusion, every Neon owner (or some Mopar fanatics) is in some sort of denial because the SRT4 isn't "labeled" as a Neon it is "A whole new car, maybe". Man, people can be delusional and believe anything they hear.
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Last edited by thunderbird1100 : 12-06-2005 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 12-06-2005, 07:11 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by dodgerforlife
Hmm, strange, most people I talk to call it the SRT-4, not a Neon. Never heard someone whine and bitch that it was missing the "Neon" name.

Look at the damn specs of the car, and tell me how the hell it is a Neon. 2nd gen Neons largely came with a 132hp 2.0L SOHC 4cyl. SRT-4....well, I already mentioned that one in the other post. 2nd gen Neons came with stock suspension. SRT-4...Tokico tuned sport suspension. 2nd gen Neons came with standard buckets and standard interior...SRT-4...Viper race buckets, interior more built for the sport side. 2nd gen Neons come with a very muffled single outlet exhaust....SRT-4....mufferless, resonated dual outs. The list goes on and on.

How much of a change is the Si to sayyyy the LX? A bored out DOHC engine, and slightly upgraded suspension. No wonder they kept the Civic name. No real big ****ing differences.

Jeebus you are one person in EXTREME DENIAL. And can't even use facts to support your cause.

You live in Canada and I live in the south (of the U.S. obviously). So probably people AMY say different things, but EVERY SINGLE non DODGE/NEON-Loyalist call it a "Neon SRT4" - because it is what it is, a TRIM LEVEL of the Neon.

Who cares what the specs are? You could use that FOR ANY car. "Oh the MAgnum SRT-8 has 425hp, a different suspension, tranny, exhaust and wheels from the Magnum SX with 190hp; IT'S a DIFFERENT CAR!" <- that's your dumbass logic.

The Civic Si does the SAME THING from the Civic the Neon SRT-4 does form the Neon. You obviously don't have a aclue as to what is in the Civic Si.

First off, the Civic DX/LX/EX all share the same R18 1.8L SOHC i-VTEC 16v series engine with 140hp (150+hp on old SAE). The Civic Si uses a COMPLETELY different engine (absolutely NOTHING related to the R series engine), it's not a "bored out version" of the Civic engine...not at all. It's engine is the K20Z3 2.0L DOHC i-VTEC 16v with 197hp (really dyno tested at 220-225hp). The Civic Si, like the Neon SRT-4 still share the same chassis, and same body (with different skirts) with the Civic or Neon (in case of the Neon SRT4). The Civic Si, like the Neon SRT-4, has different seats, and a overall a slightly different interior than the base Civic (like the Neon SRT4). IT uses a COMPLETELY different 6spd tranny not even offered on the base Civics (like the Neon SRT4, only 5spd in that case). The whole suspension has been changed out for stiffer springs/shocks all around, not to mention fatter sway bars/strut bars (wow, just like the SRT4). Oh no, different wheels you say? Yup, bigger on the Civic Si with performance tires from the Civic (oh wow, you mean just like the Neon SRT-4 is from the Neon?). oh dont forget exhaust, same thing goes o nthe Civic Si, bigger exhaust all the way through on the Si from the base Civic (no thunderbird, you just didnt point out ANOTHER similarity between the Neon SRT4 and Civic Si!!!).

So in essence the Neon SRT4 is no farther from the Neon than the Civic Si is from the Civic. As they share the SAME differences, but are built on the EXACT same platforms, and use roughly the SAME bodies (but again, with new skirts, and possibly a hood scoop). So, enough of your wrong facts about that, since I just ended that nonsense.
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Last edited by thunderbird1100 : 12-06-2005 at 07:16 PM.
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Old 12-06-2005, 07:22 PM   #38
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the one thing i'm interested in is the dyno test of a civic si of around 220hp. (can ya pm me the link so ya dont get in trouble for advertising?)

i thought the new SAE was supposed to make everything comparable, not make it so you have to add 5-10% to whoever uses it to get the "real" hp...
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Old 12-06-2005, 07:38 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by pik_d
the one thing i'm interested in is the dyno test of a civic si of around 220hp. (can ya pm me the link so ya dont get in trouble for advertising?)

i thought the new SAE was supposed to make everything comparable, not make it so you have to add 5-10% to whoever uses it to get the "real" hp...

The new SAE standard is OPTIONAL, and it DOES make use of added things to be dynoed which take away power if the engine is kept the same (in most cases 4-5%). Only Honda and Toyota (and I think Porsche) have FULLY adopted the new SAE standard, other companies like GM have adopted it on SOME vehicles, other companies aren't even bothering with it (like Nissan). To me it's vital they make this thing a TRUE MANDATORY standard so people dont get confused, because they are comparing more true power numbers (under the new SAE standard) agianst more artifical numbers (old SAE standard).

Glad to show you a dyno, VTEC.net did a dynapack of the Si and got...
http://www.vtec.net/articles/view-ar...icle_id=403644

That shows they got 198 hub hp (a dynapack measures horsepower like a dynojet, only it measures it at the wheel HUBS of the vehicle so there isn't a wheel/tire loss) on a non cooled down run (unlike most dyno pulls). Then on a cooled down run they got 204 hub horsepower, and with the airbox removed 209 hub horsepower. These are all completely stock 2006 Civic Si "except the last one as they REMOVED the air box cover".

They go on to say on the EXACT same dyno a rated "210hp" RSX-S put down exactly 190 hub horsepower on a cooled down run. So the Si is putting down 14 more hub horsepower than that (which EASILY puts it in the range of 220-225hp.

Also note this was an UN-BROKEN in Si, so that takes away power. They later go on to say they tested a broken in Si with a few thousand miles on it and got 218 hub horsepower with the airbox cover removed (so add a good 7-8 hub horsepower to that cooled down run on the original)...now you really are in the 230hp range quite easily, but I still stay conservative on what I say just because for whatever reason I'm called "honda biased" when even reporting the clear facts. because some people just cannot accept the fact a Honda puts down a lot more than rated power...
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Old 12-06-2005, 08:08 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
The new SAE standard is OPTIONAL, and it DOES make use of added things to be dynoed which take away power if the engine is kept the same (in most cases 4-5%).

No, it is merely stricter, and requires an independant observer. It doesn't change what's on the engine to be measured. But the conditions need to be more tightly controlled, and easier to reproduce. Some engines got rated lower, some got rated higher.

Yes, it's voluntary, but if you advertise as meeting SAE standards, then it's mandatory.
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Old 12-06-2005, 08:24 PM   #41
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I thought we are talking about the srt4 not the civic si
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Old 12-06-2005, 08:50 PM   #42
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I thought we are talking about the srt4 not the civic si

We were, I was just showing how dumb the logic is by anyone who believes the SRT4 is a separate car from the Neon is just retarded. Dodger even brought up this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgerforlife
Hmm, strange, most people I talk to call it the SRT-4, not a Neon. Never heard someone whine and bitch that it was missing the "Neon" name.

Look at the damn specs of the car, and tell me how the hell it is a Neon. 2nd gen Neons largely came with a 132hp 2.0L SOHC 4cyl. SRT-4....well, I already mentioned that one in the other post. 2nd gen Neons came with stock suspension. SRT-4...Tokico tuned sport suspension. 2nd gen Neons came with standard buckets and standard interior...SRT-4...Viper race buckets, interior more built for the sport side. 2nd gen Neons come with a very muffled single outlet exhaust....SRT-4....mufferless, resonated dual outs. The list goes on and on.

How much of a change is the Si to sayyyy the LX? A bored out DOHC engine, and slightly upgraded suspension. No wonder they kept the Civic name. No real big ****ing differences.

Which is just asking to get picked apart with all that misinformation. Since the Civic Si and SRT4 use the near SAME differences from their more base brethern. Which was explained to dodger.
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Old 12-06-2005, 10:25 PM   #43
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Except he's right. The SRT-4 is considered a separate model in the Dodge lineup. Moreso than the Integra Type R was. It was intended to be the first "normal" production car from the Chrysler Performance Vehicle group. While it was built from a Neon, it's not called a Neon, nor is it listed as an optional trim group for the Neon (the way the SVT Contour was considered a top trim option for the Contour, though it was much the same thing).

It's the way Dodge wants to call it, and you saying it was based on a Neon isn't going to change that.
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Old 12-06-2005, 11:07 PM   #44
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its a pretty good looking car fast and not pricey


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Old 12-06-2005, 11:32 PM   #45
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Except he's right. The SRT-4 is considered a separate model in the Dodge lineup. Moreso than the Integra Type R was. It was intended to be the first "normal" production car from the Chrysler Performance Vehicle group. While it was built from a Neon, it's not called a Neon, nor is it listed as an optional trim group for the Neon (the way the SVT Contour was considered a top trim option for the Contour, though it was much the same thing).

It's the way Dodge wants to call it, and you saying it was based on a Neon isn't going to change that.

That's what I've been saying this entire time!

I KNOW Dodge offically doesn't call it a Neon, and I know (since obviously it's not a Neon according to Dodge) Dodge doesnt recognize it AS a trim level of the Neon. I'm calling it WHAT it is, which is just what the Civic Si is to the Civic. I see no wrong in that. I don't care what the company wants to call it, if EVEN the dealers and 99% of people say it's a Neon (As it's based off the Neon chassis/body), then it's a Neon in essence, just a trim level of the Neon (but like I said, DODGE doesnt recognize this). But anyway, enough of the name game, It isn't even in production anymore... Time to see what they call the Caliber.


Oh and Chris, I've searched for a while and to my understanding I've seen a few people post that on the new optional SAE standard EVERYTHING driven by a belt is tested, and a few said they didn't test the power steering unit before, and do now on this standard. I still cant dig up 100% true facts though, I've treid, just searched around on other forums.
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