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Old 01-05-2006, 05:14 PM   #16
TheFieroKid
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Originally Posted by Bino
Honda makes a V5 racing motorcycle... RC 211V, do a quick search.

That maybe, but from how I understand engine desgin its a flawed desgin... anytime you have an uneven amount of cylinders in a V config your causing undo stress on the block... just because honda does it, doesnt make it right or sound.
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Old 01-05-2006, 05:23 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by TheFieroKid
That maybe, but from how I understand engine desgin its a flawed desgin... anytime you have an uneven amount of cylinders in a V config your causing undo stress on the block... just because honda does it, doesnt make it right or sound.

You're right, why would they make their racing bike that's not even offered to the public a V5 unless there was something special (racing... durable?) about it. The engine has different size bores on either side (that's right, two different piston sizes).

I'd love to hear you explain the undue stress comment.
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Old 01-05-2006, 06:18 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by TheFieroKid
V cons, doesn’t last as long as the boxer or I config... basically during each combustion stroke (this is the power stroke) after the explosion in side the cylinder the piston is forced against the cylinder wall before it is forced down, over time (200k or so) the cylinder walls wear out.

I can't see how a flat engine would wear cylinder walls less than a V or I engine. The reason there is side force is because the connecting rod is offset from the centerline of the piston and centerline of the crankshaft. The longer the stroke, the more offset there is. This is independent of the style of engine. I am not an engineer, but I think Boxer/V/I engines with the same bore and stroke would have the same side force when under the same loading. Side force can be reduced by reducing the stroke, but then you need to increase the bore (to bring the displacement back where it was) and rpm's to replace torque with HP.
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Old 01-05-2006, 06:56 PM   #19
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Im not going to argue with either of you the point...
I explained how I understand how engines work, from what ive been taught (in an ASE Cert class for engines) and what ive learned through real life experance working with cars.
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Old 01-05-2006, 07:46 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by TheFieroKid
Im not going to argue with either of you the point...
I explained how I understand how engines work, from what ive been taught (in an ASE Cert class for engines) and what ive learned through real life experance working with cars.

It's about balancing reciprocating masses within the engine. Having two large pistons offset by three smaller pistons equates to similar reciprocating masses. I must say that engine is a very outside-the-box approach. I would love to see what the true benefits are of the motor.

It's the only engine of its kind I've ever seen. Honda also was working on an oval-piston engine, which last I read was supposed to make its way into a new sport quad (sort of unrelated point of interest).
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Old 01-05-2006, 08:20 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by TheFieroKid
Im not going to argue with either of you the point...
I explained how I understand how engines work, from what ive been taught (in an ASE Cert class for engines) and what ive learned through real life experance working with cars.
In other words, you're not going to defend your position because you know you're wrong and are too prideful to admit it. As a long time engine builder for cars (street and racing), motorcycles (street and racing), aircraft (military, civilian, experimental), occasionally heavy equipment and even the odd boat or two along with being an ASE certified Master Technician and Master Engine Machinist and Automotive Technology adjunct instructor (does that cover enough bases to reputable?), I can assure you that your opinion is in no way based in fact.

A piston and cylinder inside a reciprocating internal combustion engine doesn't know or care if the engine has 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, or 16 cylinders. It also doesn't know or care if the engine's configuration is vertical, horizontal, slant, inverted, inline, V, W, radial, square or horizontally opposed. Using your "theory", you want us to believe that a V engine has increased cylinder wear because the piston is pushing down. Newsflash! Combustion forces are much more powerful than gravity and because of that, the only "down" the piston knows is following the cylinder and connecting rod... Even in some cases when the down stoke is physically up. The wear that you you see is created by piston ring to cylinder friction/scuffing, ring to cylinder rocking motion, piston pin offset and the operating angle of the connecting rod mostly influenced by the rod length/stroke ratio, NOT the angle of the cylinder.
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Old 01-05-2006, 08:20 PM   #22
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Finally, the idea that a horizontally opposed engine is the best thing out there, as much as I personally love them, is simply absurd. While some manufacturer have in fact used them in their high end supercars, that doesn't make them inherently better than any other well planned design. Even Porsche who used them for decades as their traditional engine uses a V-10 in the Carrera GT and it manages to be about as fast and powerful as anything out there.



So where does this leave us? Well, once again we've shown that a little bit of knowledge is more dangerous than none at all. We've also shown that you can't believe everything you hear in a classroom. After all, it's well known that those who can do and those who can't teach. So, you can use this as an experience to learn from or you can piss and moan and tell me I'm wrong. You have the right to do whatever you want, no matter how ignorant it may be. I guess it all just boils down to what I've been typing on this forum for three years in situations like this. THINK, TYPE, SUBMIT. Have a nice day.
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Old 01-05-2006, 08:30 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by TheFieroKid
That maybe, but from how I understand engine desgin its a flawed desgin... anytime you have an uneven amount of cylinders in a V config your causing undo stress on the block... just because honda does it, doesnt make it right or sound.
Oops, I forgot this. Maybe your high school shop teacher can explain to us what's wrong with Volkswagen's VR5.

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Old 01-05-2006, 08:53 PM   #24
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Is this researched information or made up? No pun intended I just wana see if this is true or not.

It has been obtained from an online source, although I'm not sure of the credibility. If you or anyone can prove that I'm wrong, I'll admit my mistake.
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:11 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Nissan_Altima
It has been obtained from an online source, although I'm not sure of the credibility. If you or anyone can prove that I'm wrong, I'll admit my mistake.
Your response is essentially correct if a bit opinionated. He's just pissed because the words correct, quality and information have never come out of his mouth in the same sentence.
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:18 PM   #26
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It has been obtained from an online source, although I'm not sure of the credibility. If you or anyone can prove that I'm wrong, I'll admit my mistake.
i would generally agree with it. the durability... i would think that comes from less moving parts, so less to break, but dont take that as the absolute truth. i dont know if there is any reason that a particular part would last longer on an I6 then a V6 though.

EDIT: had this open for a while, so i didnt see vwhobo's response.
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:20 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by pik_d
i would generally agree with it. the durability... i would think that comes from less moving parts, so less to break, but dont take that as the absolute truth. i dont know if there is any reason that a particular part would last longer on an I6 then a V6 though.

EDIT: had this open for a while, so i didnt see vwhobo's response.
An I6 has less moving parts that a V6? How does that work?
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:25 PM   #28
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An I6 has less moving parts that a V6? How does that work?
and I6 has half the number of camshafts of a V6 (of course only in an OHC engine), right? wouldnt that be atleast one less moving part?

that, and no (well much much less... technically) need for a balance shaft.

is there something i'm missing?
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:29 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by pik_d
and I6 has half the number of camshafts of a V6 (of course only in an OHC engine), right? wouldnt that be atleast one less moving part?

that, and no (well much much less... technically) need for a balance shaft.

is there something i'm missing?
Yeah, it's called apples and oranges. I can describe to you an I6 engine with substantially more moving parts that a V6 engine. You can dance around the facts all day, but the truth is that an I6 engine and a V6 engine of the same general design will have approximately the same number of moving parts.
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:39 PM   #30
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i'm sure you could, but would they be parts that would also commonly be found on a V6 that it doesnt particularly require? out of curiousity what moving parts would an I6 have that a comparable V6 would not have?

and in that case, just for the sake of further answering the topic at hand, do you believe an I6 is more durable then a V6? and why?

thefierokid also made a comment that I6's have more low end torque [then V6's, as that's what he was contrasting it against]. is there any truth to that? i've looked aroud my usual sources on the internet, but i cant find anything backing that up, or opposing it.
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