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Old 01-05-2006, 09:46 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by pik_d
i'm sure you could, but would they be parts that would also commonly be found on a V6 that it doesnt particularly require? out of curiousity what moving parts would an I6 have that a comparable V6 would not have?

and in that case, just for the sake of further answering the initial question of the forum, do you believe an I6 is more durable then a V6? and why?

thefierokid also made a comment that I6's have more low end torque [then V6's, as that's what he was contrasting it against]. is there any truth to that? i've looked aroud my usual sources on the internet, but i cant find anything backing that up, or opposing it.
1. Define non-required parts. Both engines need essentially the same parts to operate, it just depends on how the the engines are designed.

2. I don't recall saying that an I6 needs any parts that V6 doesn't.

3. From personal experience I can tell you that neither is more durable than the other. Design, manufacture, useage and maintenance are far more important.

4. The answer is no. Once again, the crankshaft doesn't know where the pitons are that are pushing against it. Bore, stroke, compression, etc are the determining factors.
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:50 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFieroKid
Simply put, the V config is great if you want to go fast quickly, the I config is great if you want lots of torque.

V pros, can get you up to speed faster then any other config... thatís about it.
V cons, doesnít last as long as the boxer or I config... basically during each combustion stroke (this is the power stroke) after the explosion in side the cylinder the piston is forced against the cylinder wall before it is forced down, over time (200k or so) the cylinder walls wear out.


The pistons dont touch the cylinder wall.
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:52 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by PontiacFan27
The pistons dont touch the cylinder wall.
If you don't think pistons touch the cylinder wall, you've just proven you've never been inside of an engine.
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:54 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by vwhobo
If you don't think pistons touch the cylinder wall, you've just proven you've never been inside of an engine.

They dont, the rings do
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:57 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by vwhobo
1. Define non-required parts. Both engines need essentially the same parts to operate, it just depends on how the the engines are designed.
ok, what i mean is when you said "I can describe to you an I6 engine with substantially more moving parts that a V6 engine.", were you talking about an I6 that is nearly equal to a V6 in terms of size, preformance, durability, and on the same level of technological advancement? or were you pointing out the same logic that you can point out an I4 with more power per L then a V6 if you wanted? that something like this cannot be looked at as one general rule holds true for all examples?
Quote:
2. I don't recall saying that an I6 needs any parts that V6 doesn't.
i was basicly asking what parts could you name for this: "I can describe to you an I6 engine with substantially more moving parts that a V6 engine."
Quote:
3. From personal experience I can tell you that neither is more durable than the other. Design, manufacture, useage and maintenance are far more important.
does the I6 have any inherent advantages over a V6 then, other then being a more balanced engine?
Quote:
4. The answer is no. Once again, the crankshaft doesn't know where the pitons are that are pushing against it. Bore, stroke, compression, etc are the determining factors.
that much i was leaning towards, but with my lack of experience, all i had to go by was hearsay, which for some reason claims these you've refuted in 3 and 4.
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:58 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by PontiacFan27
They dont, the rings do
The compression rings seal compression and the oil rings control oil and they definately contact the cylider walls. But to get back to your unenlightened previous statement, the pistons also most assuredly contact the cylinder walls. As I said before, proof that you've never been inside and engine or even have a rudimentary concept of how they operate. Think, type, submit.
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:58 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by vwhobo
Oops, I forgot this. Maybe your high school shop teacher can explain to us what's wrong with Volkswagen's VR5.


Holy crap, I didn't even know that motor existed (research time ).
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Old 01-05-2006, 09:59 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
The compression rings seal compression and the oil rings control oil and they definately contact the cylider walls. But to get back to your unenlightened previous statement, the pistons also most assuredly contact the cylinder walls. As I said before, proof that you've never been inside and engine or even have a rudimentary concept of how they operate. Think, type, submit.

I know how they operate. The rings stick out farther than the outside of the piston, so what happens? The piston flattens the rings so it can touch the cylinder wall?
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Old 01-05-2006, 10:00 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Bino
Holy crap, I didn't even know that motor existed (research time ).
if you actually find something which gives a lot of information about the VR5, let me know... i havn't had much luck with it...
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Old 01-05-2006, 10:04 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by pik_d
ok, what i mean is when you said "I can describe to you an I6 engine with substantially more moving parts that a V6 engine.", were you talking about an I6 that is nearly equal to a V6 in terms of size, preformance, durability, and on the same level of technological advancement? or were you pointing out the same logic that you can point out an I4 with more power per L then a V6 if you wanted? that something like this cannot be looked at as one general rule holds true for all examples?
i was basicly asking what parts could you name for this: "I can describe to you an I6 engine with substantially more moving parts that a V6 engine."
does the I6 have any inherent advantages over a V6 then, other then being a more balanced engine?
that much i was leaning towards, but with my lack of experience, all i had to go by was hearsay, which for some reason claims these you've refuted in 3 and 4.
I just don't get it. Why can't you understand that an I6 CAN have more parts than a V6? It all depends on the engine design. There is not enough room on this forum or time in the day to make more than a general statement, which by the way was in response to your general statement. If you require more specificity, go back to the start and have fun.

Advantages? That is a purely subjective term and would depend upon the intended usage. Some people will tell you a V6 is easier to package... Unless you have an engine bay thats 5' long and 2' wide, then the I6 just might work better. It all depends.
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Old 01-05-2006, 10:06 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by PontiacFan27
I know how they operate. The rings stick out farther than the outside of the piston, so what happens? The piston flattens the rings so it can touch the cylinder wall?
Are those honest questions or are you displaying your lack of knowledge? I'm not even sure how to respond.
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Old 01-05-2006, 10:09 PM   #42
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if you actually find something which gives a lot of information about the VR5, let me know... i havn't had much luck with it...

VW Bora 2.3L VR5, doesn't look to me like the US ever got a version of that motor.
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Old 01-05-2006, 10:11 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Bino
VW Bora 2.3L VR5, doesn't look to me like the US ever got a version of that motor.
It was also used in Passats (as in the pic), Golfs, etc.
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Old 01-05-2006, 10:15 PM   #44
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i DO understand that. i know the way the engine is designed has more of an impact then most other variables. i do know that in an OHC engine, an I6 will have half the number of camshafts, and an I6 in general will just not need a balancing shaft, though a V6 would have one (though i realize it is not required to have the engine work).

all i'm asking is if it is just up to the design process, or if there are any I6 specific parts.
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Old 01-05-2006, 10:19 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by pik_d
i DO understand that. i know the way the engine is designed has more of an impact then most other variables. i do know that in an OHC engine, an I6 will have half the number of camshafts, and an I6 in general will just not need a balancing shaft, though a V6 would have one (though i realize it is not required to have the engine work).

all i'm asking is if it is just up to the design process, or if there are any I6 specific parts.
I understand that question, and I think it's already been answered, at least by implication. An I6 doesn't need anything special to make it run. Just the normal crank, rods, pistons, etc. Same as every other reciprocating engine.

P.S. I don't know how we got on to the V6/balance shaft business. Most V6's DON'T have a balance shaft.
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