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Old 01-05-2006, 10:21 PM   #46
pik_d
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bino
VW Bora 2.3L VR5, doesn't look to me like the US ever got a version of that motor.
yea, i know the VR5 is a 2.3L with 150hp. it's a 3.19in bore x3.55in stroke, apparently the same in all 5 cylinders. it's a DOHC 20V engine... but past that, i dont know much.

i dunno why they chose to go with 5 cylinders, as it just seems odd. i also dont know how much they had to do to balance the engine. it's just interesting...

Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
I understand that question, and I think it's already been answered, at least by implication. An I6 doesn't need anything special to make it run. Just the normal crank, rods, pistons, etc. Same as every other reciprocating engine.

P.S. I don't know how we got on to the V6/balance shaft business. Most V6's DON'T have a balance shaft.
ok, thanks for clarifying those things for me.

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Old 01-05-2006, 11:22 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by vwhobo
It was also used in Passats (as in the pic), Golfs, etc.

So was (is) it available in the US?
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Old 01-05-2006, 11:24 PM   #48
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To my understanding of the physics behind an engine, this is what happens. The forces in side the cylinder move in several directions one of which is down (ground). And it forces the cylinder against the wall.

In my picture (you can tell I have no artistic talent) the red arrows show the direction of forces with in the cylinder, the green arrow shows the force direction on the piston.

In an Inline engine there is no angle for the piston to work against... so there isn’t any cylinder/cylinder wall ware.
Now ill be the first to admit I don’t know everything, I’m only 21 and have only taken 3 engine classes, and its not even going to be my profession, but I did pass all 3 with 4.0s and I’ve rebuilt a Mopar big block, a Pontiac small block, and a Honda Inline.

But in my experience (again only 21 years) I’ve seen I4 engines out last any V config engine out there. I currently work in an oil change (only work in Lansing) and people come in every day with all sorts of engines, the oldest 4 engines I have seen all had over 300k on them and they were all I4 engines.
Infact I was talking with a guy just yesterday who has 290k on his V6 (some ford truck) and he was telling me how the piston rings where going and he was going to have to rebuild the engine.
This observation is conductive to what I was taught by my instructor.

You can dispute it all you want, give me all your credentials, but until you show me some hard evidence and the math accompanying it (as my instructor did) I will not change my opinion on this subject and will continue to preach it.
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Old 01-05-2006, 11:24 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bino
So was (is) it available in the US?
no, it wasnt available in the USA.

the bora is basicly a jetta... slight cosmetic differences though.
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Old 01-05-2006, 11:28 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFieroKid
In an Inline engine there is no angle for the piston to work against... so there isnít any cylinder/cylinder wall ware.

Think about how a crankshaft works and then re-evaluate that statement.
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Old 01-05-2006, 11:29 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by TheFieroKid
But in my experience (again only 21 years) Iíve seen I4 engines out last any V config engine out there. I currently work in an oil change (only work in Lansing) and people come in every day with all sorts of engines, the oldest 4 engines I have seen all had over 300k on them and they were all I4 engines.
Infact I was talking with a guy just yesterday who has 290k on his V6 (some ford truck) and he was telling me how the piston rings where going and he was going to have to rebuild the engine.
This observation is conductive to what I was taught by my instructor.

I know a gentleman with a '94 Suburban with a TBI 350 that has over 300K on the stock engine, it doesn't leak or burn any fluid. Runs like the day it was purchased. It's all in the maintenance.
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Old 01-05-2006, 11:30 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bino
Think about how a crankshaft works and then re-evaluate that statement.

a crank shaft turns reciprocating motion into rotary motion.
I don’t see how the piston is going to hit the cylinder wall in a pure up down motion.
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Old 01-05-2006, 11:31 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bino
I know a gentleman with a '94 Suburban with a TBI 350 that has over 300K on the stock engine, it doesn't leak or burn any fluid. Runs like the day it was purchased. It's all in the maintenance.

That would certainly be the exception not the rule... how many SBCs do you see out there with over 300k on them? not many at all.

Cylinder wall wear is common in all engines. but if you’ve ever rebuilt a V and an I engine, when you use your dial bore gauge you’ll notice that the cylinder wall in a V engine facing the ground has a grater taper then the top where as in an I engine the taper is the same all the way around (again this is in most instances) I witnessed this my self on the engines that were being rebuilt in class.
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Old 01-05-2006, 11:37 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFieroKid
a crank shaft turns reciprocating motion into rotary motion.
I donít see how the piston is going to hit the cylinder wall in a pure up down motion.

Think about the angle of the rod relative to the crankshaft and piston. If the rod maintained a perfectly vertical orientation, there would be no moment arm to rotate the crankshaft, and therefore the crankshaft would not turn. Just like how when you lean a ladder up against the side of a house, there are forces pushing down on the ground (and away from the house at the base of the ladder), and forces that are pushing against the side of the house at the top of the ladder where it contacts the house.
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Old 01-05-2006, 11:45 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bino
Think about the angle of the rod relative to the crankshaft and piston. If the rod maintained a perfectly vertical orientation, there would be no moment arm to rotate the crankshaft, and therefore the crankshaft would not turn. Just like how when you lean a ladder up against the side of a house, there are forces pushing down on the ground (and away from the house at the base of the ladder), and forces that are pushing against the side of the house at the top of the ladder where it contacts the house.

ya but the connecting rod is in the center of the piston and is allowed to swing freely... in a compression stroke the connecting rod forces the piston up, in the power stroke the piston forces the connecting rod down...

in a I engine the piston is sitting centered in the cylinder with oil surrounding it... the oil is there to allow it to move with out much wear.
In a V engine like your example there is actually forces pushing the piston against the cylinder the side facing the ground.
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Old 01-05-2006, 11:50 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFieroKid
You can dispute it all you want, give me all your credentials, but until you show me some hard evidence and the math accompanying it (as my instructor did) I will not change my opinion on this subject and will continue to preach it.
And you will continue to be wrong, but if you can live with it, so can I. Tell ya what. Why don't you give us the name of the text book that this "information" came out of so that we can all look at it for ourselves. Until you provide us with some hard evidence and math to support your statements, I'll just take them for what they are... Bullsh*t. After all, you should be held to the same standards you expect us to adhere to.

P.S. Your lack of knowledge is showing again. There is no small block or bog block Pontiac. The architecture of all Pontiac V8 engines is the same.
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Old 01-05-2006, 11:53 PM   #57
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I really hate writing a response and when I go to post it the computer freezes

So I'll do a condensed version:

A boxer has sidewall loading. So does a V motor., So does a log. It's an occupational hazard whenever there's an angle of incidence.

A boxer is a punch and counterpunch engine that has the pistons paired at 180į.

A V and boxer configuration allows bigger bores and shorter strokes for the same capacity and length of a log.

Relatively speaking, a log has a big crankshaft distanced away from the fireworks; this is at least halved on a boxer. It generally has long wobbly rods, high piston acceleration, high inertial load, high sidewall loading, high torsional twist, large reciprocating mass, etc, while the engines with higher bore/stroke ratios (V config, boxer, etc) can rev higher (ancilliaries and heads permitting).
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Old 01-05-2006, 11:56 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFieroKid
ya but the connecting rod is in the center of the piston and is allowed to swing freely... in a compression stroke the connecting rod forces the piston up, in the power stroke the piston forces the connecting rod down...

in a I engine the piston is sitting centered in the cylinder with oil surrounding it... the oil is there to allow it to move with out much wear.
In a V engine like your example there is actually forces pushing the piston against the cylinder the side facing the ground.
1. Very few wrist pins are located in the center of the piston. Almost all wrist pins are offset.

2. The heavier ridge on V engines will generally be (based on crankshaft rotation) piston low side on the left side of the V and the piston high side on the right side of the V. This is due to rod angularity, not gravity. If you're theory was true, vertical engines would experience no wear and horizontal engines would suffer the worst. Care to explain that, because it's not true?
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Old 01-05-2006, 11:57 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
I really hate writing a response and when I go to post it the computer freezes

So I'll do a condensed version:

A boxer has sidewall loading. So does a V motor., So does a log. It's an occupational hazard whenever there's an angle of incidence.

A boxer is a punch and counterpunch engine that has the pistons paired at 180į.

A V and boxer configuration allows bigger bores and shorter strokes for the same capacity and length of a log.

Relatively speaking, a log has a big crankshaft distanced away from the fireworks; this is at least halved on a boxer. It generally has long wobbly rods, high piston acceleration, high inertial load, high sidewall loading, high torsional twist, large reciprocating mass, etc, while the engines with higher bore/stroke ratios (V config, boxer, etc) can rev higher (ancilliaries and heads permitting).
Watch it, you might get called ignorant again.
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Old 01-06-2006, 12:02 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by vwhobo
And you will continue to be wrong, but if you can live with it, so can I. Tell ya what. Why don't you give us the name of the text book that this "information" came out of so that we can all look at it for ourselves. Until you provide us with some hard evidence and math to support your statements, I'll just take them for what they are... Bullsh*t. After all, you should be held to the same standards you expect us to adhere to.

P.S. Your lack of knowledge is showing again. There is no small block or bog block Pontiac. The architecture of all Pontiac V8 engines is the same.

Well seeing as how it was my instructor (an ASE Certifited mechanic and teacher) who said it I cant really quote a book can I? And the way I see it your spewing bullshit.
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