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Old 01-31-2006, 06:59 AM   #46
windsonian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimario
YEah, but I'm a fair guy, I'll give him a chance.
So what are you fighting for? Democracy?

Then you say this:
Quote:
Permission? Permission from who? A bunch of idiots the sit on their big fat butts all day on internaltional ground in New York? Permission from the quite possibly the most corrupt organization in the history of mankind? One that we also happen to supply I think about 90% of EVERYTHING to. Yeah, we really need their permission.

Does that sound democratic to you?
Define democracy.
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Old 01-31-2006, 08:12 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by jedimario
You're brilliant but an idiot all at the same time.

ONE-This is WAR. There are true Muslim US citizens who are cooperating with terrorists, and they must be stopped at any cost. If an attack were to happen tomorrow that could have been prevented by this "domestic spying", then everyone would scream at Bush for not doing anything. You guys do get it, as long as it's a Republican or conservative that's screwing up.

jed, im not saying this isnt war. im not saying some things are bad, well i am, but that is all a MORAL opinion, it is not the law in any way, shape or form. If the goverment wants to be able to evasdrop, hey, they shoudl first try and change the constitution before they get caught on thier damn asses, its just rediculous how this administration is runing things, we are just diving into things, both good and bad but still diving in, and we dont think of any type of consequence.

right now, if we stop an attack, i would jump up and down, yelling yppie at the top of my lungs b/c americans dont have to die in this country, but i will still be in favor of the war, and this evasdropping thing is great, as long as it can only affect certain people, and i dont mean by race.

when i say certain peopl, i mean the most suspect individuals, wether they be white, or muslim, it does not matter, they should be watched, but that constitution thing still needs to be taken care of.

sorry about jumping around, im not the best of writers

/suspendrantagain
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Old 01-31-2006, 02:19 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windsonian
So what are you fighting for? Democracy?

Then you say this:


Does that sound democratic to you?
Define democracy.
1. The US is a democratic republic. And I just want to know what your problem is so I can tell you why you're wrong.

2. In case you couldn't tell, I was talking about the UN. No country has any obligation to any othetr country for anything except when it comes to terms of surrender, pacts, treaties, etc. I'm pretty sure we haven't signed anything saying we need the UN's permission to go to war. Democracy has nothing to do with it.

3. Just to humor you....
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Old 01-31-2006, 02:39 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by jedimario
2. In case you couldn't tell, I was talking about the UN. No country has any obligation to any othetr country for anything except when it comes to terms of surrender, pacts, treaties, etc. I'm pretty sure we haven't signed anything saying we need the UN's permission to go to war. Democracy has nothing to do with it.
Your wrong.
We do need their permission.
Do you know what UN stands for? United Nations, that’s right nations around the country working together to solve their problems with peace. When we joined the organization we agreed (whether simply by notion or actual signing of papers) to work through them.

What we did went against the notion of peace and what the UN stands for.
We said ya we like the UN and all but we are going to do what we want when we want and the global community can either like it or hate it but we really don’t give a **** either way.

Now what kind of message does that send?
It sends a message that we could care less about peace and only care about our own agendas... Why should any other nation be on our side? If this all happened in Spain and Spain sent out troops into Iraq with out the global community behind them we would be all saying how horrible they are and what they did was wrong… but some how when we do it its perfectly ok… this is what we call hypocritical.

And very good, you know the difference between a democracy and a democratic republic... if this were a true democracy my vote might actually count for something.

And actually this country is really turning into a Oligarchy, after all if you don’t have any money you really don’t stand a chance of becoming president, all the people in the congress and in the white house are rich men… so ya its really oligarchy veiled as a republic… at least that’s how I see it.
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Old 01-31-2006, 04:54 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFieroKid
Your wrong.
We do need their permission.
Do you know what UN stands for? United Nations, thatís right nations around the country working together to solve their problems with peace. When we joined the organization we agreed (whether simply by notion or actual signing of papers) to work through them.
Perhaps you're right, but either way, if we rely on other countries that hate us to dictate our policy on who we can and cant' attack, we will surely be destroyed! If it's not what the UN stands for, then I say good, do it! That's just my personal opinion. Also, in case you missed it, the UN is one of the most corrupt oraganizations ever, so even if we do have some obligation to them, we shouldn't. It's bad for us and good for everyone else's personal agenda. BTW, nations around the country really doesn't make any sense

Quote:
What we did went against the notion of peace and what the UN stands for.
We said ya we like the UN and all but we are going to do what we want when we want and the global community can either like it or hate it but we really donít give a **** either way.
Sometimes bad people do bad things. Sometimes these bad things must be stopped. Sometimes that means stopping the bad people. Sometimes there isn't a peaceful way to do that. Pacifism is one of the most ignorant "isms" as long as there are bad people who do bad things in this world. So, sometimes we must go against the notion of peace. And it's not about want, it's about stopping the bad people. But I already explained that.

One more thing, we SHOULDN'T care what other nations think of our actions. For one thing, most of them hate us all and will keep hating us untill we start doing things that will bring us down to their level.

Quote:
Now what kind of message does that send?
It sends a message that we could care less about peace and only care about our own agendas... Why should any other nation be on our side? If this all happened in Spain and Spain sent out troops into Iraq with out the global community behind them we would be all saying how horrible they are and what they did was wrongÖ but some how when we do it its perfectly okÖ this is what we call hypocritical.
I see your point, but it's baseless untill something like that actually happens.

Quote:
And very good, you know the difference between a democracy and a democratic republic... if this were a true democracy my vote might actually count for something.

And actually this country is really turning into a Oligarchy, after all if you donít have any money you really donít stand a chance of becoming president, all the people in the congress and in the white house are rich menÖ so ya its really oligarchy veiled as a republicÖ at least thatís how I see it.
You forgot something...you DO still have to get elected into office. All the money in the world won't do you any good if no one will vote for you. But probably the biggest reason that national leaders are rich is because they have the money to run the best campaigns. And, well, there's realy nothing that can be done about that except to actually educate all these kids that are going through public schools instead of turning them into mindless robots that do the system's bidding.
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Old 01-31-2006, 11:06 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by jedimario
And, well, there's realy nothing that can be done about that except to actually educate all these kids that are going through public schools instead of turning them into mindless robots that do the system's bidding.

Is the public school system a nursery for cyborgs?.
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Old 01-31-2006, 11:28 PM   #52
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Is the public school system a nursery for cyborgs?.
Loosely & metaphoricly speaking, here in the US, indeed they are.
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Old 01-31-2006, 11:43 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimario
I see your point, but it's baseless untill something like that actually happens..
That's his point ... it is!
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Old 02-01-2006, 12:42 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFieroKid
This war is real... real wrong! A war we were lied into, a war Iíve never supported, a war that we arenít quite winning.

If this war had been taken seriously from the start we would have won by now... not enough troops + not enough supplies + constant bad intelligence = a great recipe for disaster.

Your right the world is a big place and thatís why when your hot on the bad guys trail you switch your attention to someone who you can easily find and blame for all our problems so that you donít actually have to try to find the bad guy who did cause the problems... yup typical right wing method.

Oh and I was all for going into Afghanistan and getting those assholesÖ but weíve seem to have lost site on that objective havenít we?

i don't want to argue w/ you, fiero, i just want to understand your pov... how do you feel that we were lied into this war? pm me if you like, b/c i feel that a lot of people misunderstand what it's about b/c of all the things that happened around the same time..
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Old 02-01-2006, 02:25 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by jedimario
Loosely & metaphoricly speaking, here in the US, indeed they are.

wow, comon now, that is the most paranoid bulls**t ive heard in a long time. If we had choices in which classes we took, how is that "controling" us? if we have choices in here, when, and how we go to college, how is that "controling us? If we could go play band, or go play sports, how is that "controling" us? seriously, just b/c you didnt like school, or b/c you dont agree with what is taught, dosent mean they are trying to control you, jesus christ, i had respect for your thouhgts now it is gone
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Old 02-01-2006, 02:33 AM   #56
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Great, Bush supporters here. Guess what, everything he does isnt right.

This whole phone tapping thing sounds familiar... "watergate" comes to mind for some odd reason. Of course that was when people actually cared about their civil rights.
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Old 02-01-2006, 02:39 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by OombaIsBack
Great, Bush supporters here. Guess what, everything he does isnt right.

This whole phone tapping thing sounds familiar... "watergate" comes to mind for some odd reason. Of course that was when people actually cared about their civil rights.


first, i am not a bush supporter, and second, ive been saying that the whole time! if they want something done, see what the people think about changing the rights, if people dont want it done, then dont friggen do it
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Old 02-01-2006, 04:20 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by ride3k
wow, comon now, that is the most paranoid bulls**t ive heard in a long time. If we had choices in which classes we took, how is that "controling" us? if we have choices in here, when, and how we go to college, how is that "controling us? If we could go play band, or go play sports, how is that "controling" us? seriously, just b/c you didnt like school, or b/c you dont agree with what is taught, dosent mean they are trying to control you, jesus christ, i had respect for your thouhgts now it is gone
I never said that the schools were controlling anyone. I said they were teching kids whatever the system wanted to learn, not necesarily what is right. Take evolution, for example. It is almost always taught as a fact, or scientific law, in public schools, when it has not even made it to a theory. At best, it's an unconfirmed hypothesis. Things like that.
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Old 02-01-2006, 04:22 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by OombaIsBack
Great, Bush supporters here. Guess what, everything he does isnt right.

This whole phone tapping thing sounds familiar... "watergate" comes to mind for some odd reason. Of course that was when people actually cared about their civil rights.
I know everyhitng he does isn't right, I already said that he's an idiot when it comes to immigration.

Watergate is completely different. It's like comparing an apple to a computer desk. That was the Republican party tapping the phone lines of Dem. party leaders to spy on them, not the CIA tapping a phone line to prevent another attack.
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Old 02-01-2006, 04:25 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OombaIsBack
Great, Bush supporters here. Guess what, everything he does isnt right.

This whole phone tapping thing sounds familiar... "watergate" comes to mind for some odd reason. Of course that was when people actually cared about their civil rights.

Except those were for different reasons. Such as to gain an advantage over another party where as here we are trying to prevent terrorism. Great analogy there. No shit everything he does isn't right but so far I have agreed more so with what he has done, than haven't.
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