Car Forums  

Go Back   Car Forums > Vehicle Specific > Domestic Cars
FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

View Poll Results: Produce the same amount of power through these ways, which is the fastest?
All Motor 4 19.05%
Supercharger 7 33.33%
Turbocharger 9 42.86%
Stroker Kit 1 4.76%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-22-2006, 06:35 AM   #1
Pythias
CF Extraordinaire
 
Pythias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ohio, U.S.
Posts: 1,831
All Motor vs. Supercharger vs. Turbo vs. Stroker

I have a question that has been bugging me for sometime. After I discovered a little more about cars and what you can do to make them faster, I have been wondering what is the most efficient way? I want to know about performance BEFORE price-wise. Out of these 4 different ways to produce power with an engine (2 of them being similar) Which of these makes the car the quickest. Not that I am going to do it soon, but if I take my 88' Mustang 5.0 and produced 350 HP and 400lbs-Torque through - All motor, Supercharger, Turbocharger, or a Stroker kit, something like a 351 Stroker, which out of all these applications would be the quickest? From what I know producing this power through just the motor alone would be the cheapest way but like I said out of all these ways to produce power, which is the Quickest?
__________________
"Though I drive through the valley of rice,I shall fear no turbo for torque art with me. Thy rod and piston, they comfort me."

"It is not the strong who will win, but the winner who is strong." -ROTK7
"You wrote "The World Doesn't Need A Savior" but everyday I hear people crying for one."

Last edited by Pythias : 02-22-2006 at 01:28 PM.
Pythias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 06:38 AM   #2
VG30DE
CF Enthusiast
 
VG30DE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 233
5.0's and superchargers go hand in hand. imho.
__________________
Wide Open and Sideways...
VG30DE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 06:48 AM   #3
Aondor
CF Addict
 
Aondor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 452
If im wrong flame me

Your mustang has the 5.0 302 ford engine.
There are tons and I mean tons of upgrades for the engine.
With minimal work you can produce 350+ hp from just your engine alone.
I have never done any of the work myself but I did alot of investigation on ford engines since my work with my comet. So I say go all engine.
__________________
Aondor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 07:43 AM   #4
thunderbird1100
CF dB-o-holic
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LSU Campus
Posts: 3,260
I'd definatley go with a turbocharger.

Why?

-Too many people go with a supercharger.

-N/A or a supercharger doesn't have the awesome torque a turbocharger gives.

-Getting a ton of horsepower N/A is pretty expensive...btw using a stroker kit is still considered N/A in the end. No forced induction.



You forgot to mention nitrous, which is also a very cheap effective way of getting power out of the Ford 302. I've seen some guys at the track run just slicks and a 125/150 shot of nitrous on an otherwise stock Foxbody and do low-mid 13s no problem.

Some turbo kits I like...
http://www.turbochargedpower.com/79-93%20Mustang.htm
http://www.forcedinductions.com/MustangPTK.htm

Many BASIC turbo kits for the 302 will net you around 400rwhp and 500rwtq with a pretty low psi of 7-8. That's an incredible amount of torque (way more than even a stock Viper). With that HP kit a guy made 545rwhp and 614rwtq at only 13psi on PUMP GAS. He claims he even impressed a guy who drove a S-Trim Vortech 302.
__________________
1990 Honda Accord LX Sedan
Mileage Ticker: 232,400 Miles
Stereo Mods: Coming soon...

~Blow your mind~

thunderbird1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 09:07 AM   #5
Aondor
CF Addict
 
Aondor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 452
Those turbo kits

Those turbo kits are all good and well but 4000 is a steep price to pay. for much less than 4000 I could make an equaly powerful engine.
__________________
Aondor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 04:15 PM   #6
thunderbird1100
CF dB-o-holic
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LSU Campus
Posts: 3,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aondor
Those turbo kits are all good and well but 4000 is a steep price to pay. for much less than 4000 I could make an equaly powerful engine.

Those were the ones I like, I found several other turbo kits for the 302 that started at $1500 w/ no turbo (included all the OTHER parts you need less turbo).

I'd like to see anyone make 400rwhp and 500rwtq for less than $4k w/o using a turbo or supercharger. Might get close to it using nitrous...but running a 225-250 shot of nitrous on an otherwise stock 302 might not be all that healthy...

I'm sure you can get 400rwhp easily with a supercharger as well, but you dont get that awesome torque a turbo has. Plus, turbos are very easily upgradable. For a few hundred dollars more you can step up to a bigger turbo in a kit or do a hybrid turbo with the one you already have and increase power substansially, afterall that one guy made 545rwhp and 614rwtq with just 13psi of boost...probably only needed a bigger turbo in his setup too.
__________________
1990 Honda Accord LX Sedan
Mileage Ticker: 232,400 Miles
Stereo Mods: Coming soon...

~Blow your mind~

thunderbird1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 09:10 PM   #7
Pythias
CF Extraordinaire
 
Pythias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ohio, U.S.
Posts: 1,831
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
Those were the ones I like, I found several other turbo kits for the 302 that started at $1500 w/ no turbo (included all the OTHER parts you need less turbo).

I'd like to see anyone make 400rwhp and 500rwtq for less than $4k w/o using a turbo or supercharger. Might get close to it using nitrous...but running a 225-250 shot of nitrous on an otherwise stock 302 might not be all that healthy...

I'm sure you can get 400rwhp easily with a supercharger as well, but you dont get that awesome torque a turbo has. Plus, turbos are very easily upgradable. For a few hundred dollars more you can step up to a bigger turbo in a kit or do a hybrid turbo with the one you already have and increase power substansially, afterall that one guy made 545rwhp and 614rwtq with just 13psi of boost...probably only needed a bigger turbo in his setup too.

Thing you fial to mention... is also the engine rebuild so it can handle the power... and the dyno tuning. Sure for 1500 no turbo u got all the parts, lets say another 500$ you got a used turbo. But then you have to look into an engine rebuild on almost any Mustang like mine with decent mileage. Then AFTER all that a dyno tuning which I believe ranges from 800$-1400$ or so. SO that is then around 3k without the engine rebuild, and with an engine rebuild I'll guesstimate around 4k-5k. Of course I THINK the stock 302 blocks can only handle 500HP I'm not sure.
__________________
"Though I drive through the valley of rice,I shall fear no turbo for torque art with me. Thy rod and piston, they comfort me."

"It is not the strong who will win, but the winner who is strong." -ROTK7
"You wrote "The World Doesn't Need A Savior" but everyday I hear people crying for one."
Pythias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 09:56 PM   #8
thunderbird1100
CF dB-o-holic
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LSU Campus
Posts: 3,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pythias
Thing you fial to mention... is also the engine rebuild so it can handle the power... and the dyno tuning. Sure for 1500 no turbo u got all the parts, lets say another 500$ you got a used turbo. But then you have to look into an engine rebuild on almost any Mustang like mine with decent mileage. Then AFTER all that a dyno tuning which I believe ranges from 800$-1400$ or so. SO that is then around 3k without the engine rebuild, and with an engine rebuild I'll guesstimate around 4k-5k. Of course I THINK the stock 302 blocks can only handle 500HP I'm not sure.

Those kits are safe on stock motors. That's why all the dyno testing was done on non-modded 302's (for the base kits @ 7-8psi). You shouldnt have problems running that low of boost on a 302, I know tons of guys who run that or a little higher on stock 302's with superchargers and turbochargers (many more superchargers).

BTW - dyno tuning doesnt cost nearly that much. The local dynojet place charges $60-$80 for some pulls and if you want a tuning session (with more pulls) with a turbo setup they charge no more than $150-$175 pending number of pulls/printouts etc.
__________________
1990 Honda Accord LX Sedan
Mileage Ticker: 232,400 Miles
Stereo Mods: Coming soon...

~Blow your mind~

thunderbird1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2006, 11:48 PM   #9
Pythias
CF Extraordinaire
 
Pythias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ohio, U.S.
Posts: 1,831
Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
Those kits are safe on stock motors. That's why all the dyno testing was done on non-modded 302's (for the base kits @ 7-8psi). You shouldnt have problems running that low of boost on a 302, I know tons of guys who run that or a little higher on stock 302's with superchargers and turbochargers (many more superchargers).

BTW - dyno tuning doesnt cost nearly that much. The local dynojet place charges $60-$80 for some pulls and if you want a tuning session (with more pulls) with a turbo setup they charge no more than $150-$175 pending number of pulls/printouts etc.

So my motor with around 160k miles would be safe? If that is the case that's good, but to have a power adder like that on a stock motor you would have to have a decent engine rebuild for it to be reliable. Also what about a stock 302 with around 226k miles, how safe is that?
__________________
"Though I drive through the valley of rice,I shall fear no turbo for torque art with me. Thy rod and piston, they comfort me."

"It is not the strong who will win, but the winner who is strong." -ROTK7
"You wrote "The World Doesn't Need A Savior" but everyday I hear people crying for one."
Pythias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2006, 12:31 AM   #10
vwhobo
CF's Anal Orifice
 
vwhobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Redneck Hell
Posts: 8,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pythias
I have a question that has been bugging me for sometime. After I discovered a little more about cars and what you can do to make them faster, I have been wondering what is the most efficient way? I want to know about performance BEFORE price-wise. Out of these 4 different ways to produce power with an engine (2 of them being similar) Which of these makes the car the quickest. Not that I am going to do it soon, but if I take my 88' Mustang 5.0 and produced 350 HP and 400lbs-Torque through - All motor, Supercharger, Turbocharger, or a Stroker kit, something like a 351 Stroker, which out of all these applications would be the quickest? From what I know producing this power through just the motor alone would be the cheapest way but like I said out of all these ways to produce power, which is the Quickest?
Ya know, I've read your poll, your initial post and most of the rest of this thread with great amusement. Just the things you ask and state strongly suggest that you haven't "discovered a little more about cars and what you can do to make them faster", at least no more than might be expected of someone who has watched F&F 20 or 30 times. In no particular order;

1. Do you have any idea what the difference is between "all motor" and a "stroker kit" is? I think not. A stroked engine IS all motor unless you have some sort of power adder installed.

2. Do you realize that if you have an engine that produces 350 hp and 400 lb/ft of torque in any given car, the performance will be essentially identical no matter how you arrive at those figures?

3. Do you realize that if you had left price as a determining factor, your question would have been valid? Without it, this is just another chance for people to jerk off in public.

4. If you want to go fast, it doesn't take a lot of money. What it does take is some time, some dedication and some knowledge of how to get there. There is still a '91 5.0 'Stang around here that I built that runs 9 second 1/4's all night long, and has for several years now. Total price to build? Under $2500. That's the entire car and drivetrain, not just the engine.

If you want quality answers to questions like you have, you need to start with quality questions. Before that happens, you're going to need to learn a lot more about what it is you're asking.
__________________
Thanks for the pic, jedimario.

"Everybody believes in something and everybody, by virtue of the fact that they believe in something, use that something to support their own existence."
Frank Vincent Zappa, 1940-1993

vwhobo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2006, 12:48 AM   #11
newyorker
MXman
 
newyorker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 5,291
I got a question. Power/money wise, whats the best mod for my car. Like for the least money what gives you the most power.
__________________
04 Mazdaspeed Miata #2373/4000: IHI, BBS, Harddog, Flyin'Miata.

newyorker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2006, 12:52 AM   #12
vwhobo
CF's Anal Orifice
 
vwhobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Redneck Hell
Posts: 8,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by newyorker
I got a question. Power/money wise, whats the best mod for my car. Like for the least money what gives you the most power.
That all depends on how you want to use said power. From a purely power versus cost standpoint, nitrous is the cheapest power money can buy. Notice I never said the most convinient or usable, just the cheapest.
__________________
Thanks for the pic, jedimario.

"Everybody believes in something and everybody, by virtue of the fact that they believe in something, use that something to support their own existence."
Frank Vincent Zappa, 1940-1993

vwhobo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2006, 01:11 AM   #13
newyorker
MXman
 
newyorker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Philly
Posts: 5,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
That all depends on how you want to use said power. From a purely power versus cost standpoint, nitrous is the cheapest power money can buy. Notice I never said the most convinient or usable, just the cheapest.
Well lets put convenience into play. I wouldnt want to run my stock block thats not in great shape on Nitrous, and that would be my last alternative in any case. What about port&polish on the head and intake mantifold?
__________________
04 Mazdaspeed Miata #2373/4000: IHI, BBS, Harddog, Flyin'Miata.

newyorker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2006, 01:20 AM   #14
vwhobo
CF's Anal Orifice
 
vwhobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Redneck Hell
Posts: 8,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by newyorker
Well lets put convenience into play. I wouldnt want to run my stock block thats not in great shape on Nitrous, and that would be my last alternative in any case. What about port&polish on the head and intake mantifold?
Give up on your port and polish already, we're tired of hearing about them. Anything you do to increase the power output of the engine is going to negatively effect the durability of your "stock block thats not in great shape". Besides that, a port and polish without other supporting modifications won't gain much power and it's extremely expensive to boot. Maybe you should start with a quality rebuild with some minor tweaks while it's apart. Then you'll have a good base for further mods.
__________________
Thanks for the pic, jedimario.

"Everybody believes in something and everybody, by virtue of the fact that they believe in something, use that something to support their own existence."
Frank Vincent Zappa, 1940-1993

vwhobo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2006, 01:30 AM   #15
Wally
I Know More Than You
 
Wally's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Oz
Posts: 2,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
Ya know, I've read your poll, your initial post and most of the rest of this thread with great amusement. Just the things you ask and state strongly suggest that you haven't "discovered a little more about cars and what you can do to make them faster", at least no more than might be expected of someone who has watched F&F 20 or 30 times. In no particular order;

1. Do you have any idea what the difference is between "all motor" and a "stroker kit" is? I think not. A stroked engine IS all motor unless you have some sort of power adder installed.

2. Do you realize that if you have an engine that produces 350 hp and 400 lb/ft of torque in any given car, the performance will be essentially identical no matter how you arrive at those figures?

3. Do you realize that if you had left price as a determining factor, your question would have been valid? Without it, this is just another chance for people to jerk off in public.

4. If you want to go fast, it doesn't take a lot of money. What it does take is some time, some dedication and some knowledge of how to get there. There is still a '91 5.0 'Stang around here that I built that runs 9 second 1/4's all night long, and has for several years now. Total price to build? Under $2500. That's the entire car and drivetrain, not just the engine.

If you want quality answers to questions like you have, you need to start with quality questions. Before that happens, you're going to need to learn a lot more about what it is you're asking.

I suprised you posted in this one. I know I skirted it deliberately.
__________________
"She gave me a look only a mother could give a child."
Wally is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:48 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2002 - 2011 Car Forums. All rights reserved.