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Old 02-24-2006, 06:00 AM   #46
windsonian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newyorker
Now I drive 60 and it feels like im going 40 because the engine keeps at lower rpm and its just quieter and smoother.
I'd say what's actually happened is that the speedo is stuffed. You probably actually are going 40 - that's the only thing that would explain lower revs.

Speed at the wheels = speed at the engine (ie rpm) x total gear ratios (or divided by, whichever way you look at it)

As you can see, this does not account for torque, power, fuel consumption, oil viscosity or anything - in fact, your engine doesn't even need to be running for this to hold true. As long as the drivetrain is engaged, if you can make your car move, then the rpm in a certain gear will ALWAYS be the same for a certain speed.
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Old 02-24-2006, 06:05 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pik_d
aren't the bold and underline parts contradictory?

this is an addon to his contradiction, wouldn't a more efficent and better running engine create more power?
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Old 02-24-2006, 06:23 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salimander13
this is an addon to his contradiction, wouldn't a more efficent and better running engine create more power?
no, if it had the same power output with less fuel consumption, then it'd be more efficient.
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Old 02-24-2006, 07:12 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pik_d
aren't the bold and underline parts contradictory?

no, what im saying is, oil can HURT your engine, by overheating it, creating friction, but if the engine is runing the way its supposed to be, no decrease in friction will increase your output of power, but it WIL tak eless effort to get that same pwer, i think thats how i should put it, but ya, i also dont see how those could be contradictory, explain your viewpoint plllz =P

EDIT:when i said power, i was reffering to an increase in HP, not the effort used to raise each piston. i think thats what you were getting at...
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Old 02-24-2006, 07:36 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride3k
no, what im saying is, oil can HURT your engine, by overheating it, creating friction, but if the engine is runing the way its supposed to be, no decrease in friction will increase your output of power, but it WIL tak eless effort to get that same pwer, i think thats how i should put it, but ya, i also dont see how those could be contradictory, explain your viewpoint plllz =P

EDIT:when i said power, i was reffering to an increase in HP, not the effort used to raise each piston. i think thats what you were getting at...
yea, that's what i thought you ment.

but if it takes more effort to move at the same rpm's, then more torque/effort is being lost inside the engine, and thus less is going to the wheels. maybe? that's also what i'm thinking could be true...

basicly, if newyorker went from bad/dirty oil to better, and of course, clean oil, would he notice any increase in preformance? i was under the impression that the answer would be yes. but what's being said here seems to be saying no, and that it's just "bad" for the engine, as in, it will caus the engine to be ruined, and not have less output.
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Old 02-24-2006, 07:50 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pik_d
yea, that's what i thought you ment.

but if it takes more effort to move at the same rpm's, then more torque/effort is being lost inside the engine, and thus less is going to the wheels. maybe? that's also what i'm thinking could be true...

basicly, if newyorker went from bad/dirty oil to better, and of course, clean oil, would he notice any increase in preformance? i was under the impression that the answer would be yes. but what's being said here seems to be saying no, and that it's just "bad" for the engine, as in, it will caus the engine to be ruined, and not have less output.

im pretty sure it dosent harm performnace, but does harm feul efficency(sp?) b/c more feul is being used to push the piston the same distance, but with more friction, even though the friction is very minimal. The more feul used compensates for the loss of power due to friction, only making a very samll power loss. But it does harm your engine, nomatter which way you look at it, due to buildup and friction.

so, in conclusion, more effort is required to move the piston, but this effort is mad up by the use of more feul, generating a lower feul efficency(sp?) but no noticiable difference in power. Also, the more required effort accelerates wear and tear on your engine, as well as the friction caused by grime from the bad oil, resulting in overheating and complete engine meltdown.

thats just how i see it
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Old 02-24-2006, 08:01 AM   #52
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i suppose that makes sense. wonder what vwhobo has to say about this, considering he didn't go into that much detail when he posted.
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Old 02-24-2006, 10:34 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pik_d
i suppose that makes sense. wonder what vwhobo has to say about this, considering he didn't go into that much detail when he posted.
I wonder too. These things get out of hand so fast, that it's hard to keep up. Where to start, where to start. First let me get this out of the way. Newyorker continues to prove with every word he types that he is completely without a clue and makes things up as he goes along. The sad thing is, is that everyone can see that except for him. Words of advice Twinkie. Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid. Open mouth, insert foot.

Let's try to bite this off a bit at a time starting with this exchange;

Quote:
Originally Posted by salimander13
this is an addon to his contradiction, wouldn't a more efficent and better running engine create more power?
Quote:
Originally Posted by windsonian
no, if it had the same power output with less fuel consumption, then it'd be more efficient.
A more efficient running engine will produce more power for the amount of fuel used. The other side of the coin is that for the same amount of power produced, it'll use less fuel. Dead simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Several Individuals
Blah, blah, blah, dirty oil this, yada, yada, yada, power and fuel mileage that.
Dirty and/or low quality oil can and does decrease the efficiency of an engine. The problem here is that the difference between a fresh oil change with the best oil money can buy, and a sump full of oil that hasn't been changed in 20k miles, is fairly miniscule. So much so as to be nearly insignificant. The power/efficiency variation is something that can only be measured on a dynomometer, perhaps a 5% improvement in fuel mileage at best. Additionally, I have never seen in over 30 years in this business, an engine overheat due to dirty oil.

The most important part of the oil change, is how it effects the longevity of the internal engine parts. This is true concerning not only having clean oil, but also having the right oil. The old timers who still live in the past who tell you that running a heavier grade oil than called for by the manufacturer, are in a word WRONG. The OEM's along with companies producing the oil have a huge stake in ensuring that their product, be it engines or lubricants in those engines, do their job well.

Clean oil is clean because... Well, because it doesn't have dirt (contaminants) in it. Try this for an analogy. Would you go outside, pick up a big handful of dirt and sand and rub it all over the hood of your car? Why not? Because it would damage the surface of the hood. So if you wouldn't even want to do it once, you certainly wouldn't want to do it over and over, would you? Why? If you answered because the damage caused would increase in severity over time, step to the head of the class.

It's late and I'm in need of some sleep before my day starts in another two hours. I know the things I said above are somewhat disjointed, but I hope they at least answer some questions for now. Please, if you have more, direct them to me in this thread in the form of a specific question. It's really hard to read the conversation and turn it into an answer session. Good night.
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Old 02-24-2006, 02:25 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
Um, no. That's what alot of manufacturers of cars and oil would like you to think so that's how they advertise. In a perfect world, with perfect weather, perfect driving conditions and the car being driven in a manner that is perfect for oil life longevity, it is theoretically possible for your oil to last that long. However, in the real world, where few things are perfect and people run the crap out of theie cars, oil needs to be changed far more often....
Yeah I get it, thanks!
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Old 02-24-2006, 03:46 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windsonian
I'd say what's actually happened is that the speedo is stuffed. You probably actually are going 40 - that's the only thing that would explain lower revs.

Speed at the wheels = speed at the engine (ie rpm) x total gear ratios (or divided by, whichever way you look at it)

As you can see, this does not account for torque, power, fuel consumption, oil viscosity or anything - in fact, your engine doesn't even need to be running for this to hold true. As long as the drivetrain is engaged, if you can make your car move, then the rpm in a certain gear will ALWAYS be the same for a certain speed.
Speedo work fine. We got speed detectors that tell you how fast youre going, and it siad i was going 55 when my speedo was shoting 54ish so its on target.
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Old 02-24-2006, 03:49 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
I wonder too. These things get out of hand so fast, that it's hard to keep up. Where to start, where to start. First let me get this out of the way. Newyorker continues to prove with every word he types that he is completely without a clue and makes things up as he goes along. The sad thing is, is that everyone can see that except for him. Words of advice Twinkie. Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid. Open mouth, insert foot.

Let's try to bite this off a bit at a time starting with this exchange;


A more efficient running engine will produce more power for the amount of fuel used. The other side of the coin is that for the same amount of power produced, it'll use less fuel. Dead simple.


Dirty and/or low quality oil can and does decrease the efficiency of an engine. The problem here is that the difference between a fresh oil change with the best oil money can buy, and a sump full of oil that hasn't been changed in 20k miles, is fairly miniscule. So much so as to be nearly insignificant. The power/efficiency variation is something that can only be measured on a dynomometer, perhaps a 5% improvement in fuel mileage at best. Additionally, I have never seen in over 30 years in this business, an engine overheat due to dirty oil.

The most important part of the oil change, is how it effects the longevity of the internal engine parts. This is true concerning not only having clean oil, but also having the right oil. The old timers who still live in the past who tell you that running a heavier grade oil than called for by the manufacturer, are in a word WRONG. The OEM's along with companies producing the oil have a huge stake in ensuring that their product, be it engines or lubricants in those engines, do their job well.

Clean oil is clean because... Well, because it doesn't have dirt (contaminants) in it. Try this for an analogy. Would you go outside, pick up a big handful of dirt and sand and rub it all over the hood of your car? Why not? Because it would damage the surface of the hood. So if you wouldn't even want to do it once, you certainly wouldn't want to do it over and over, would you? Why? If you answered because the damage caused would increase in severity over time, step to the head of the class.

It's late and I'm in need of some sleep before my day starts in another two hours. I know the things I said above are somewhat disjointed, but I hope they at least answer some questions for now. Please, if you have more, direct them to me in this thread in the form of a specific question. It's really hard to read the conversation and turn it into an answer session. Good night.
Only problem with that is, that people know when their cars are dirty and some even know it ruins the paint. MOST people dont know the damage caused in the engine from neglected regular maintenance, so they overlook it, and have problems with their cars. Some people dont know that something as simple as an oil change and new air filter can keep the car running well, for a long time.
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Old 02-24-2006, 06:15 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newyorker
I used Castrol Full Synthetic in my car for the fist time and it runs much smoother now. I even noticed im getting close to 21mpg instead of my regular 18. Its worth the money. At 60mph before my car was at 3000RPM with the foot off of the gas, but now its 2500



and



last but not least



done
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Old 02-24-2006, 06:18 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salimander13
to change from regular oil to synthetic do you have to do anything special other than drain all the oil out?

As hobo said you also need to change the filter out but also dont forget to change the oil drain plug washer (Believe they are only rubber), seen many people not change it for many oil changes then have oil leaks and cant figure out why, 90% of the time it solves the problem.
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Old 02-24-2006, 06:23 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
As hobo said you also need to change the filter out but also dont forget to change the oil drain plug washer (Believe they are only rubber), seen many people not change it for many oil changes then have oil leaks and cant figure out why, 90% of the time it solves the problem.
Some are only plastic.....alot of them are copper though I believe
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Old 02-24-2006, 06:33 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by thunderbird1100


and



last but not least



done
Huh?
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