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Old 03-20-2006, 06:47 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metallica3491
Wow dude. Y the hell am i gunan listen to you. You know nothing about rice burners. U didnt even know about the Evo VIII FQ400. Your just a biased ass hole that think all american cars are the shit. Well i hate to break it to you buddy but imports beat the shit outa american. I will agree mustangs and comaros are faster than an eclipse but that doesnt take away the fact that they are pieces of crap. It is a fact that american cars are less reliable than japanese cars.
Whoa there bud...I'll admit Oomba is biased as shit but that doesn't excuse the fact that you are dead wrong about American cars. Note Lincoln, Buick, and Cadillac's position on this list of JD Power's long term dependability study (pg. 3):

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:...ient=firefox-a

Above Infiniti, Toyota, Honda, Acura AND BMW. Imports "beating the shit" out of American is a concept that should have died back in the 70's and 80's.
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Old 03-20-2006, 07:28 PM   #32
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Old 03-20-2006, 09:18 PM   #33
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I myself have a Camaro, and know quite a few people with Mustangs. In comparison, the two are basically the same quality. Even with the Ford vs. Chevy rivalry, most intelligent people (no matter what side they are on) will tell you that their isn't much of a difference between the two. It's just a matter of personal preference.

As far as bias, it seems you're the only one that is. I do tend to like American cars, BUT I do realize that their are plenty of imports that will hand me my ass, and I know that an Accord will probably outlast a Chevy. Dismissing all Camaros and Mustangs "pieces of crap" is probably the most ignorant thing that I have heard in a long time.

Nobody here said that the Eclipse and all Jap. cars are pieces of crap like you called the Camaro and Mustang, yet you say
Quote:
Im just sick and tired of people talkin shit about Jap cars when they dont even know what there talkin about. People dont understand just cause its not american doesnt mean its not good.
Who's saying this? Why don't you take a trip over to LS1tech.com or Corral.net. and see how bad they are making fun of the poor quality of imports. Oh wait, they're not.

The bottom line: If you treat a car well it will treat you well. A Honda may be of better quality than a Chevy, but there is not enough of a difference to call anything a piece of crap. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Since imports are SOOO much better than domestics, the guys that originally had LS1s in their cars must be throwing out that P.O.S. pushrod engine and putting in a nice Mazda Rotary engine...right?
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Old 03-20-2006, 11:10 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giant016
I myself have a Camaro, and know quite a few people with Mustangs. In comparison, the two are basically the same quality. Even with the Ford vs. Chevy rivalry, most intelligent people (no matter what side they are on) will tell you that their isn't much of a difference between the two. It's just a matter of personal preference.

As far as bias, it seems you're the only one that is. I do tend to like American cars, BUT I do realize that their are plenty of imports that will hand me my ass, and I know that an Accord will probably outlast a Chevy. Dismissing all Camaros and Mustangs "pieces of crap" is probably the most ignorant thing that I have heard in a long time.

Nobody here said that the Eclipse and all Jap. cars are pieces of crap like you called the Camaro and Mustang, yet you say
Who's saying this? Why don't you take a trip over to LS1tech.com or Corral.net. and see how bad they are making fun of the poor quality of imports. Oh wait, they're not.

The bottom line: If you treat a car well it will treat you well. A Honda may be of better quality than a Chevy, but there is not enough of a difference to call anything a piece of crap. Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Since imports are SOOO much better than domestics, the guys that originally had LS1s in their cars must be throwing out that P.O.S. pushrod engine and putting in a nice Mazda Rotary engine...right?

EXACTLY, FINALLY someone with some BRAINS. Oh and I loved that last comment!
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Old 03-21-2006, 07:06 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metallica3491
Look at the Evo MR VIII FQ400. No American car under 100,000 can touch its performance.
2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 will touch that.

The $87,000 Peter Brock Superformance Coupe is pretty impressive also.
0-60 3.5 seconds
1/4 mile 11.8 seconds
1.07 skidpad
76.6 slalom---------------amazing
205 mph top speed

3100 lbs.
566 hp


But if the Superformance Coupe isn't mainstream enough for you, ignore it and bash the Z06.


I like Japanese performance cars, but I believe they are a tad bit overrated. I'd take the Mustang. The Eclipse looks better, but even though you'll never tune either car, at least the thought of tuning the Mustang is more worth it...being that it's RWD and all. If you want a high performance Eclipse, start with a GSX. That's my opinion.
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Old 03-22-2006, 04:09 AM   #36
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Again, the Eclipse is NOT a japanese car! It was never sold in Japan! Also, the n/a models had chrysler engines! You probably want the automatic too. The a/t in the DSMs had minivan trannys.
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Old 03-22-2006, 04:23 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondaman
Whoa there bud...I'll admit Oomba is biased as shit but that doesn't excuse the fact that you are dead wrong about American cars. Note Lincoln, Buick, and Cadillac's position on this list of JD Power's long term dependability study
Lexus was the highest. And it wasn't designed by Americans.

And as for an Eclipse GS or a Mustang GT, I'd take the mustang because the Eclipse GS isn't the fastest. Now between an Eclipse GSX and a Mustang GT, I'd take the GSX.
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:28 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thermo
Lexus was the highest. And it wasn't designed by Americans.
True, but the idea is that Buick, Cadillac and Lincoln are rated higher than cars that are often regarded as the benchmark of quality, Honda, Toyota, BMW etc...
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:37 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by hondaman
True, but the idea is that Buick, Cadillac and Lincoln are rated higher than cars that are often regarded as the benchmark of quality, Honda, Toyota, BMW etc...
Ya know, I'd sure like to point something out to all of you who are so involved in this. JD Powers ratings are based on owners responses of these vehicles. It's fairly well known that American car buyers are less picky than foriegn car buyers about quality, lower priced cars are not held to the same standard as higher priced cars and younger buyers usually expect less problems than older buyers. Because of that, it's also widely believed that problems with American nameplates, cheaper cars or those owned by fogeys are under reported. This is another case of figure lying and liars figuring. A better method would be to look at non-abuse or damage repairs performed on vehicles under warranty, and even that wouldn't be 100% accurate. Just more realistic.

Sorry to add some reality to the discussion.
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:55 AM   #40
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Just trying to find some form of proof to validate my point. After all, you would agree that saying imports "beat the shit" out of domestics in quality is an ignorant statement, correct? Having closely inspected and even had the opportunity to drive several examples of new GM products I can vouch that they certainly have just as high-quality of a feel as anything new coming out of the Toyota and Honda factories. However, I know my experiences are probably not enough to sway most opinions, so I turn to what I know and what I can quickly find, JD Power ratings. Unfortunately, I just don't have the time to search for each individual company's warranty repair history as you suggested, especially seeing as how most likely that information would probably just fall on closed ears anyway.
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:43 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by hondaman
Just trying to find some form of proof to validate my point. After all, you would agree that saying imports "beat the shit" out of domestics in quality is an ignorant statement, correct? Having closely inspected and even had the opportunity to drive several examples of new GM products I can vouch that they certainly have just as high-quality of a feel as anything new coming out of the Toyota and Honda factories. However, I know my experiences are probably not enough to sway most opinions, so I turn to what I know and what I can quickly find, JD Power ratings. Unfortunately, I just don't have the time to search for each individual company's warranty repair history as you suggested, especially seeing as how most likely that information would probably just fall on closed ears anyway.
Having gotten a partial night’s sleep and re-reading this thread, I want to apologize if you felt I was singling you out. My statements were aimed at everyone in this and other threads who always waive the flag of JD Power when it helps their argument. I stand 100% behind what I said, it was just intended for a larger audience. Sorry.
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Old 03-22-2006, 06:55 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
Having gotten a partial night’s sleep and re-reading this thread, I want to apologize if you felt I was singling you out. My statements were aimed at everyone in this and other threads who always waive the flag of JD Power when it helps their argument. I stand 100% behind what I said, it was just intended for a larger audience. Sorry.
Nah, I didn't really. I just thought it was necessary to explain why I chose to use JD Power in this particular instance. You are right though, Any owner based survey isn't going to be very accurate. I would be interested in seeing what those factory warranty repair histories have to show, I would imagine that American brands are showing numbers similar to what is regarded as the higher end of the Japanese and Europen quality brands.
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:16 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by hondaman
Nah, I didn't really. I just thought it was necessary to explain why I chose to use JD Power in this particular instance. You are right though, Any owner based survey isn't going to be very accurate. I would be interested in seeing what those factory warranty repair histories have to show, I would imagine that American brands are showing numbers similar to what is regarded as the higher end of the Japanese and Europen quality brands.
Here's the problem. It still comes down to accuracy in reporting. On one hand you have people who don't take their car in when there's a problem, so that will go under reported. On the other hand you have people who are at the stealership every other day complaining about nothing which will cause over reporting. Then you have the stealerships that may or may not do the appropriate paperwork based on if they'll get paid for the job, if it's a comeback or sometimes if they can pad out an RO by adding unneeded work.

Here's another factor (actually two related) to consider. JD Powers sends out surveys but they can only count the ones returned so there's not 100% accountability. Plus, they can only poll original OWNERS who have kept the car for three years (for the long term list), not lessees. Lessees are driving the same car for the same amount of time, so why aren't they counted? You get the idea.

I guess the whole point of this rant is to make people aware that the ratings they see are really not very meaningful except as a marketing tool.
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:43 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thermo
Lexus was the highest. And it wasn't designed by Americans.

And as for an Eclipse GS or a Mustang GT, I'd take the mustang because the Eclipse GS isn't the fastest. Now between an Eclipse GSX and a Mustang GT, I'd take the GSX.


funny thing is, lexus IS american,

division of toyota yes, but american still
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Old 03-22-2006, 07:48 PM   #45
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funny thing is, lexus IS american,
division of toyota yes, but american still

Lexus is not an American car company.

Your totally wrong.
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