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Old 05-09-2006, 02:59 AM   #1
Pythias
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Ethanol-Fuel Alternative?

I was wondering what anyone knows about Ethanol as an alternative to regular fuel. And don't tell me to google it because I have and I know more or less that it is made from corn, but I don't know the specific details and I was wondering if anyone has any personal experience with it or not.

Ok as I have read on I guess pure 100% Ethanol is 113, and used in racing leagues, just as well from what I gathered from 60 minutes last night was that modifications ranging from 200-300$ would be required for it to run safely in your car.

"CBS)
In Detroit, they’ve solved the car problem by making small modifications to a standard engine’s fuel-supply and injection systems. That produces the same kind of "flex-fuel" cars they’ve been selling in Brazil, and it doesn’t cost any more than a conventional car.

Flex-fuel autos adjust automatically to whatever's put in the tank – gas, ethanol, or any combination. You can convert a standard car into a flex-fuel vehicle, but you would need a skilled mechanic and some parts to do it. "
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Last edited by Pythias : 05-09-2006 at 03:06 AM.
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Old 05-09-2006, 07:52 PM   #2
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The interesting issue is that of smog. On one hand, ethanol blends are touted as being much cleaner and reducing smog. On the other, even the California Air Resources board has found it to be just the opposite, in that is INCREASES smog.

http://biz.yahoo.com/bizwk/060427/bw...3909.html?.v=1

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/...504210377/1008

http://www.taemag.com/issues/article...cle_detail.asp

http://www.perc.org/perc.php?subsection=4&id=637

Hell, even the Sierra Club doesn't like Ethanol production...

http://pennsylvania.sierraclub.org/m...shoe_parks.htm

Quote:
A summer 2003 paper published in Natural Resources Research 12(2): 127 134. June 2003 describes the problem with ethanol production precisely, "...studies suggest that the $1.4 billion in government subsidies are encouraging the ethanol program without substantial benefits to the U.S. economy ...Subsidized ethanol production from U.S. corn is not a renewable energy source."

Bob Barkanic, former DEP Deputy Secretary for Air, Recycling & Radiation, in a March 6, 2002 speech before the PA 21st Century Commission said that Pennsylvania should "... not trade off dependence on fossil fuel for dependence on large Midwestern agricultural concerns."

It should be noted that Pennsylvania is already a net importer of corn; i.e., at this time, Pennsylvania does not grow enough corn to satisfy current needs for human food production and livestock feed. Fuel ethanol production would remove available livestock feed resources.

Ethanol production is inefficient with 29% more fossil fueled energy needed to produce a gallon of ethanol, than is available in that gallon of ethanol for energy use. The raising of corn increases soil erosion, depletes soil nutrients and uses more herbicides, pesticides and nitrogen fertilizers than any other crop. Ethanol evaporates easily, causing increases in summertime ozone smog pollution in higher population areas, such as Philadelphia, Lancaster, Harrisburg and Pittsburgh. Ethanol blended with gasoline is more volatile (evaporates more easily) than gasoline with other additives, and ethanol blends combined with other gasoline in the vehicle gas tank can be more volatile still, putting significantly more pollution into the air. Ethanol blends also increase VOC emissions from gasoline, one of major necessary components that combine to create polluting ground level ozone smog.

The state of Wisconsin reported in 2002 that offensive odors will be expected to result from production and will be in evidence from ½ mile to 1 mile from the source. So severe was the problem that they recommended and required an "Odor Mitigation Plan" for a proposed facility. Production causes pollution byproducts to be emitted into the air & include carcinogenic formaldehyde and acetic acid, and methanol, a federally classified hazardous pollutant. The Philadelphia Inquirier reported on May 4, 2002 that EPA had issued a letter to the ethanol industry’s trade group identifying problems with plants releasing air pollutants in quantities many times greater than originally measured, with the problem being common to "...most, if not all, ethanol facilities..." In the air, ethanol itself will break down into highly toxic constituents (acetaldehyde and peroxyacetylnitrates [PAN] ), and Pennsylvania has yet to assess the effects of public exposure.

Ethanol has been evaluated for the effect of its use here in the northeast United States; ethanol degrades quickly in the environment and is therefore of concern because:

* At higher concentrations, ethanol can make other gasoline components more soluble in groundwater;
* In gasoline spills, ethanol can delay the degradation of other more toxic substances; and
* Ethanol can cause gasoline to spread out laterally over greater distances as a layer on top of the water table.
* The breakdown of ethanol in surface waters could potentially result in the consumption of significant quantities of dissolved oxygen and could result in fish kills, jeopardizing the local tourism industry;
* Due to ethanol’s higher solubility, current treatment technologies such as adsorptive filters will not be effective;
* The hazard potential for ethanol in drinking water is higher compared to other oxygenates from gasoline that leak into groundwater and drinking water systems, because of irreversible damage possible from repeated high level exposures.

There are health effects:

* ethanol itself will break down into highly toxic constituents (acetaldehyde and peroxyacetylnitrates [PAN] ), and Pennsylvania has yet to assess the effects of public exposure.
* Air toxics and ozone precursor pollution emissions into the air will increase if ethanol replaces current oxygenates in gasoline.
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Old 05-09-2006, 08:30 PM   #3
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Good luck defeating oil companies and big money. Intime oil will be phased out but not within 10 years atleast
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Old 05-09-2006, 08:37 PM   #4
Pythias
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Thanks for the info ChrisV.
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Old 05-11-2006, 04:43 AM   #5
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sorry bro, but i'm on my way to being a rediculous post-whore in the hopes that the morons realize how stupid and annoying it is and stop...every thread is getting terrorized with smilies.

Let me know when you're coming up so we can put your exhaust system on.
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Old 05-11-2006, 05:28 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick88Tbird
sorry bro, but i'm on my way to being a rediculous post-whore in the hopes that the morons realize how stupid and annoying it is and stop...every thread is getting terrorized with smilies.

Let me know when you're coming up so we can put your exhaust system on.
No, let me tell YOU how it is my freind, you are SPAMMING CF with smillies, which makes you a TROLL, which WILL result in a ban, okay?
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Old 05-11-2006, 08:33 PM   #7
Pythias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy
No, let me tell YOU how it is my freind, you are SPAMMING CF with smillies, which makes you a TROLL, which WILL result in a ban, okay?

Is it not ironic that although Newyorker was banned once, he came back repeatedly with the same ignorance and was allowed to stay, yet you will threaten this member who does actually contribute things to this forum, more often than he sometimes post-whores? Mhmmm seems not only ironic yet ignorant at the same time.
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Old 05-12-2006, 07:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pythias
Is it not ironic that although Newyorker was banned once, he came back repeatedly with the same ignorance and was allowed to stay, yet you will threaten this member who does actually contribute things to this forum, more often than he sometimes post-whores? Mhmmm seems not only ironic yet ignorant at the same time.
Let me tell you how it is aswell then, Sick88 threw his toys outta the pram and started rebelling against how CF is run, he clearly has a problem and although we've attempted to help him out and explained how things work, he persists to spam CF. The difference between his pointless spamming and other members' posting, is that his spamming was constant, and in every board, hence why I used the word 'spamming' rather than the word 'whoring'

As far as newyorker goes, you cant ban somebody for not posting intelligently, you can however ban somebody for flaunting the rules...
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