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07-06-2006, 04:24 PM   #46
O-P-ET
CF Newbie

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 28
Quote:
 Originally Posted by Benson F*cking idiot. When you drive a car that expensive you dont care about gas mileage and shouldn't have trouble paying for gas and when you drive a car that is that fast you dont care either.

take a look at supply and demand buddy, tom cruise buys his veyron (doens't even know how to use it ) and use all the gas in the tank and throws all his money on more gas. that lessens the gas available to EVERYBODY. supply and demand says gas prices rise.

oh and dont call me a f*cking idiot

07-06-2006, 04:30 PM   #47
Newspeak
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 102
Quote:
 Originally Posted by O-P-ET take a look at supply and demand buddy, tom cruise buys his veyron (doens't even know how to use it ) and use all the gas in the tank and throws all his money on more gas. that lessens the gas available to EVERYBODY. supply and demand says gas prices rise. oh and dont call me a f*cking idiot

...No...that wouldn't exactly work that way.

Last edited by Newspeak : 07-06-2006 at 04:36 PM.

07-06-2006, 05:02 PM   #48
What
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Posts: 652
Quote:
 Originally Posted by What It can be argued that more weight makes it easier to go faster.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by omegaV12 And how would that work?
Quote:
 Originally Posted by nighthawk ????

The force of the air pounding against the vehicle is what limits the velocity. In order for the vehicle to continue moving forward faster, it must produce more force than the wind that is forcing it backward.

Equation for force is:
f=ma
force equals mass times acceleration.

By increasing the mass in the equation, you increase the force of the object...thus allowing to push forward into the wind easier.

But...
This is a basic equation and other determining elements are missing. This equation can also be re-arranged to counter the theory. I don't have time or the properly educated audience to completely prove why more mass can equal higher top speed.

This should give you something to think about.
....
Simplify it for you.
A cannonball will hit the ground faster and harder than a feather will because the cannonball's mass can overpower the air of Earth easier.

Last edited by What : 07-06-2006 at 05:05 PM.

07-06-2006, 05:34 PM   #49
Newspeak
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 102
Quote:
 Originally Posted by What The force of the air pounding against the vehicle is what limits the velocity. In order for the vehicle to continue moving forward faster, it must produce more force than the wind that is forcing it backward. Equation for force is: f=ma force equals mass times acceleration. By increasing the mass in the equation, you increase the force of the object...thus allowing to push forward into the wind easier. But... This is a basic equation and other determining elements are missing. This equation can also be re-arranged to counter the theory. I don't have time or the properly educated audience to completely prove why more mass can equal higher top speed. This should give you something to think about. .... Simplify it for you. A cannonball will hit the ground faster and harder than a feather will because the cannonball's mass can overpower the air of Earth easier.

Yeah, that's right to some extent. The speed that something falls at has nothing to do with the mass of that object though. The reason why the cannonball hits Earth faster than the feather is because it has a higher terminal velocity...which is a variable spurred by the overall weight of the falling object. Mass isn't equal to weight. Weight is an overall combination of the force of gravity on the mass (what 'makes up' the object) of an object.

The feather falls slower because it takes so much less time for the force opposite to gravity, air resistance, to balance itself out to the weight of the feather itself for it's so much lighter. The feather meets it constant or terminal speed much quicker than the cannonball which is heavier. The heavier cannonball takes longer to reach its terminal velocity because it takes a longer time for the air flowing up against it to meet the balance in weight. Thus, the longer it takes for an object to meet terminal velocity, the quicker it will fall for it has 'more time' which is finally spurred by its greater weight.

Last edited by Newspeak : 07-06-2006 at 05:38 PM.

 07-06-2006, 05:35 PM #50 ChrisV The Big Meaney     Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: People's Republic of Maryland Posts: 3,717 While there is some merit to that theory, more weight in a car also translates into more force on the ground, causing more friction/drag where the tires meet the road. More weight will keep a car ground-bound as speeds rise, and less likely to become airborne, but it isn't a factor in allowing the car to be faster. And more weight makes it harder to accellerate up to speed, due to inertia. __________________ I'm not mean. You're just a wuss. www.midatlantic7s.com
 07-06-2006, 05:45 PM #51 Newspeak CF Enthusiast     Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Edmonton, Alberta Posts: 102 To sum up my previous post: Objects with unequal masses do not fall to the ground at different velocities and times due to their unequal masses, but rather due to the retarding force, friction, (opposite to gravity) acting on them. The velocity at which an object falls is independant of mass.
 07-06-2006, 06:08 PM #52 PontiacFan27 CF Extraordinaire     Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Grove City, PA Posts: 1,332 Another reason why the feather would fall at a much smaller rate is due to wind resistance. The cannonballs are more aerodynamic. Isn't terminal velocity determined by the mass of an object? __________________
07-06-2006, 06:25 PM   #53
Newspeak
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 102
Quote:
 Originally Posted by PontiacFan27 Another reason why the feather would fall at a much smaller rate is due to wind resistance. The cannonballs are more aerodynamic. Isn't terminal velocity determined by the mass of an object?

Terminal velocity is determined by the weight of an object, thus the force of gravity pushing down on the object made up of its mass. Mass itself cannot be used to determine terminal velocity. Then, terminal velocity is spurred along with friction as I stated above.

Wind resistance is friction...

Last edited by Newspeak : 07-06-2006 at 06:30 PM.

07-06-2006, 08:00 PM   #54
What
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by PontiacFan27 Another reason why the feather would fall at a much smaller rate is due to wind resistance. The cannonballs are more aerodynamic.
I figured you say this. You find a way to miss the point. A hollow cannonball won't fall as fast as a solid one in Earth's atmosphere.

Also, the Veyron needs more than 700 hp to maintain 253 mph. Where'd you find this again?

07-06-2006, 08:07 PM   #55
Newspeak
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 102
Quote:
 Originally Posted by What I figured you say this. You find a way to miss the point. A hollow cannonball won't fall as fast as a solid one in Earth's atmosphere. Also, the Veyron needs more than 700 hp to maintain 253 mph. Where'd you find this again?

Indeed, you're right. In this case it's the weight that makes the difference in velocity (hollow cannonball vs. solid cannonball) not the aerodynamics.

07-06-2006, 08:41 PM   #56
Benson
seeking snappy title.

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 543
Quote:
 Originally Posted by O-P-ET take a look at supply and demand buddy, tom cruise buys his veyron (doens't even know how to use it ) and use all the gas in the tank and throws all his money on more gas. that lessens the gas available to EVERYBODY. supply and demand says gas prices rise. oh and dont call me a f*cking idiot

What are you getting at here? You are a f*cking idiot. I was saying that anyone with enough money to buy a Veyron doesn't care about gas prices. How could you possibly believe that one man drives his car that much to make it affect other people who drive. There are so many people out there who drive and there is so much gas available and we aren't going to run out anytime soon. It's just that the scum sucking gas companies gouge us for every penny we have.

07-07-2006, 12:36 AM   #57
windsonian
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Down Below
Posts: 2,081
Quote:
 Originally Posted by What Some cars do allow for a high drag coefficient to achieve some downforce to increase stability, but no matter what the drag coefficient was increased for, it still retards the forward progression of the car at speed.
That was kind of my whole point....

Quote:
 Originally Posted by What But... This is a basic equation and other determining elements are missing. This equation can also be re-arranged to counter the theory. I don't have time or the properly educated audience to completely prove why more mass can equal higher top speed.
No, you don't have the time, energy, lack of laziness etc etc ... there are multiple people on here who know the theory.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by What ... Simplify it for you. A cannonball will hit the ground faster and harder than a feather will because the cannonball's mass can overpower the air of Earth easier.

It's not "overpowering" anything. Wind resistance is a reactionary force. If we go back to Newton's 2nd again.... F=ma. The force applied by the air resistance is proportional to velocity, so is the same for any object travelling at the same speed (with the same profile obviously). Therefore F is constant. For heavier mass, this means that a is less, thus there is less deceleration due to air resistance. If the accel due to resistance is less than gravitational accel, the object will speed up, if it's more, it will slow down..... and then eventually it will reach terminal velocity (ie. a=g). This is why the heavier object falls faster in the atmosphere.
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07-07-2006, 01:06 AM   #58
True_Brit
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Posts: 2,432
Quote:
 Originally Posted by nighthawk ever notice that most light-weight performance cars such as the Lotus Elise and Ariel Atom have amazing acceleration, but sub 160 mph top speeds? I cant explain exactly how it works though

British Car Regulations!
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07-07-2006, 01:08 AM   #59
vwhobo
CF's Anal Orifice

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Redneck Hell
Posts: 8,630
Quote:
 Originally Posted by nighthawk ever notice that most light-weight performance cars such as the Lotus Elise and Ariel Atom have amazing acceleration, but sub 160 mph top speeds? I cant explain exactly how it works though
Have you ever heard of the concept of gearing?
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07-07-2006, 01:30 AM   #60
Godlaus
UnFedFat in Disguise

Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,697
Quote:
 Originally Posted by vwhobo Have you ever heard of the concept of gearing?
It's not so much gearing, as no matter the gears, I doubt it'll be able to get above 160. With too high of a drag coefficient, and only 190 horsepower, you can't get moving very fast.

Gearing is a factor, but not the main factor.
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