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Old 09-17-2006, 07:04 AM   #1
2PInZ
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BMW chrome shifters

hey, i was looking through ads for used bmw m3's, and i noticed some 03' models didnt have the chrome shifter, and most 02's and present models do. Kinda confused....when did they start making the shifter chrome? is it an option? the non-chrome shifter looks pretty stupid
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Old 09-18-2006, 06:15 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2PInZ
hey, i was looking through ads for used bmw m3's, and i noticed some 03' models didnt have the chrome shifter, and most 02's and present models do. Kinda confused....when did they start making the shifter chrome? is it an option? the non-chrome shifter looks pretty stupid

The chrome shifter is the SMG model, which is not a conventional manual. Basically sequential gearbox with automatic mode. And the reason the non-chrome shifter looks "stupid" is because its a regular manual shifter (and it doesn't look stupid).

SMG:


Manual:
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Old 09-18-2006, 06:26 AM   #3
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Yeah I always wondered how the smg worked. I read about it, but it was confusing. Is it a fully functional manual that can shift automatically?

I heard there's huge delays sometimes when in the automatic mode, like it cant decide what gear to go to, lol
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Old 09-18-2006, 08:26 AM   #4
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hey that really cool to have
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Old 09-18-2006, 09:13 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxie
Yeah I always wondered how the smg worked. I read about it, but it was confusing. Is it a fully functional manual that can shift automatically?

I heard there's huge delays sometimes when in the automatic mode, like it cant decide what gear to go to, lol
basically, you can have it in auto, or, tap down for one gear up, tap down for one gear down! like a race car, sequential boxes i do like!
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Old 09-18-2006, 01:46 PM   #6
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basically, you can have it in auto, or, tap down for one gear up, tap down for one gear down! like a race car, sequential boxes i do like!
So it's not a real manual? Is it like those paddle shifters? Does it even have a clutch?
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Old 09-19-2006, 03:36 AM   #7
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Allow me to explain. SMG (in BMW's case) is a manual transmission. It has a clutch, like a manual. It has a flywheel, like a manual. The inside of the transmission looks like a manual. However, the car controls the clutch (instead of your left foot) and the car controls the shifting of gears (instead of your hand).

Basically in manual mode, you just tap the shifter forward or backward (or hit one of the paddles) and it shifts for you, controls the clutch for you, controls the revs for you. Its like having a robot who knows how to drive stick, and just telling him to shift up or down. In automatic mode, you don't even have to tell it when to shift, it just decides when to, based on how aggressive you want the car to drive (see the little button under "SMG" i the pic I posted above).

SMG's are faster than manuals because they are basically the same only faster shifting.

However, the SMG II found in E46 M3s is known to be a little jerky, and sometimes can't seem to find the right gear in automatic mode. The SMG III found in the M5 and M6 is an improvement (and it has 7 gears).

....yet...there are a lot of people who still hate even the new SMG's. We've had one customer so fed up with his M6, he traded it in and says he'll wait for the manual version next year.
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Old 09-20-2006, 04:19 AM   #8
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So you can ONLY shift manually through the paddles, not with the stick and clutch?

You know, for a 6000 dollar option, I think that's a rip off.

Why can't there just be a car with a fully functional manual that has an automatic? All these imitations of that are annoying... ie, auto-manual, smg, tiptronic, "auto-shift manual"..
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Old 09-20-2006, 06:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxie
So you can ONLY shift manually through the paddles, not with the stick and clutch?

I said you tap the shifter or use the paddles. And there is no clutch pedal. The clutch is there, but the car controls it. When you press the gas, it engages the clutch for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxie
You know, for a 6000 dollar option, I think that's a rip off.

Its expensive because its advanced technology, and it requires more parts than a regular manual. All the benefits of a manual transmission, but faster and less work to operate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxie
Why can't there just be a car with a fully functional manual that has an automatic?

Thats a silly question. Thats like saying why can't there be a car that creates fuel instead of using it? Do you actually know how a manual transmission, clutch, flywheel and other components work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxie
All these imitations of that are annoying... ie, auto-manual, smg, tiptronic, "auto-shift manual"..

These are't silly imitations, they are advances in techology. SMG is superior technology that allows the car to be faster than a conventional manual, and much faster than an automatic with a torque converter. Tiptronic is simply an improvement on the automatic that allows the driver to control the gear.

Please do some research before ranting!
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Old 09-20-2006, 12:38 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Mathew
I said you tap the shifter or use the paddles. And there is no clutch pedal. The clutch is there, but the car controls it. When you press the gas, it engages the clutch for you.



Its expensive because its advanced technology, and it requires more parts than a regular manual. All the benefits of a manual transmission, but faster and less work to operate.



Thats a silly question. Thats like saying why can't there be a car that creates fuel instead of using it? Do you actually know how a manual transmission, clutch, flywheel and other components work?



These are't silly imitations, they are advances in techology. SMG is superior technology that allows the car to be faster than a conventional manual, and much faster than an automatic with a torque converter. Tiptronic is simply an improvement on the automatic that allows the driver to control the gear.

Please do some research before ranting!

Yes I do know all the mechanics of a manual transmission and a transmission in general. You're telling me this is a transmission that has a clutch, flywheel, a "stick", and it can shift automatically, but it can't be fully automatic capable and fully manual capable? Yeah, that makes sense.

No, smg is NOT the same as a manual, because you can't control the clutch. How is this different than crappy auto-manual? You change gears by tapping the stick. The only difference is that in auto-manual it still will upshift and downshift for you if necessary.

Also, this probably eats some horsepower to do this, just like an automatic does. Another disadvantage of it.

These ARE imitations because they try to offer the best of both worlds but the best just isn't like the real thing.

So ideally I would like to see some car make have something better. For example, what if you controlled the clutch with smg, and used a real shifter, but you could still have it shift automatically? I think you under-estimate technology and confuse it for things that have to be "consumer-fitting", based on price.
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Old 09-21-2006, 05:37 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxie
No, smg is NOT the same as a manual, because you can't control the clutch. How is this different than crappy auto-manual? You change gears by tapping the stick. The only difference is that in auto-manual it still will upshift and downshift for you if necessary.

But it is the same as a manual! Its not controlled the same way but it is the same transmission driving the wheels! Its a manual transmission, modified to be controlled differently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxie
Also, this probably eats some horsepower to do this, just like an automatic does. Another disadvantage of it.

It doesn't probably eat horsepower, because it works the same way as a manual! Even when it is in automatic mode. Torque converters eat horsepower, this is a manual with a clutch! Its faster than a manual because it shifts faster and it spends less time gently pressing the clutch. Although shift times have nothing to do with horsepower anyway, I assure you, this wastes no more horsepower than a regular manual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxie
These ARE imitations because they try to offer the best of both worlds but the best just isn't like the real thing.

They are not imitations. An imitation is something that tries to imitate something superior to it. This is an IMPROVEMENT on the real thing. It is more advanced technology. It was not created to give the driver the option of auto or manual. It is a manual transmission with the auto option thrown in. It was created to be faster than a manual transmission. Its derived from race cars.

Please stop making assumptions.
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Old 09-21-2006, 12:02 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Mathew
But it is the same as a manual! Its not controlled the same way but it is the same transmission driving the wheels! Its a manual transmission, modified to be controlled differently.



It doesn't probably eat horsepower, because it works the same way as a manual! Even when it is in automatic mode. Torque converters eat horsepower, this is a manual with a clutch! Its faster than a manual because it shifts faster and it spends less time gently pressing the clutch. Although shift times have nothing to do with horsepower anyway, I assure you, this wastes no more horsepower than a regular manual.



They are not imitations. An imitation is something that tries to imitate something superior to it. This is an IMPROVEMENT on the real thing. It is more advanced technology. It was not created to give the driver the option of auto or manual. It is a manual transmission with the auto option thrown in. It was created to be faster than a manual transmission. Its derived from race cars.

Please stop making assumptions.
It's derived from race cars? Most of the drifts and race car techniques drivers use to go around bends and curves are based on the ability to control the clutch. This is crucial. How is that an improvement? That's just taking something away.

You're saying it's a manual transmission, but it's not manually operated. Maybe the selection of what gear is operated, but the rest is controlled by the vehicle.

How are the shifts anyways? You said it's just a "tap" of the shifter. How does that work? Do you just tap in a certain direction for a certain gear? Also, does it upshift and downshift for you if you're revving really high, or say you go from 4th gear to 2nd gear at 70mph? (I hope not)

All I mean is the system would be 10 times better if you could just control the clutch! And since there IS a clutch (as you said) then I don't see why BMW wouldn't give you that option... I am sure it's possible (cause it's controlled electronically, and you said all the components of a manual transmission are there)
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Old 09-21-2006, 07:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew
But it is the same as a manual! Its not controlled the same way but it is the same transmission driving the wheels! Its a manual transmission, modified to be controlled differently.



It doesn't probably eat horsepower, because it works the same way as a manual! Even when it is in automatic mode. Torque converters eat horsepower, this is a manual with a clutch! Its faster than a manual because it shifts faster and it spends less time gently pressing the clutch. Although shift times have nothing to do with horsepower anyway, I assure you, this wastes no more horsepower than a regular manual.



They are not imitations. An imitation is something that tries to imitate something superior to it. This is an IMPROVEMENT on the real thing. It is more advanced technology. It was not created to give the driver the option of auto or manual. It is a manual transmission with the auto option thrown in. It was created to be faster than a manual transmission. Its derived from race cars.

Please stop making assumptions.

It's useless he just doesn't get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxie
All I mean is the system would be 10 times better if you could just control the clutch! And since there IS a clutch (as you said) then I don't see why BMW wouldn't give you that option... I am sure it's possible (cause it's controlled electronically, and you said all the components of a manual transmission are there)

If you could then there would be no point in having the system, WTF, how you can you not understand that. Basically this is a system with all the advantage of an automatic, (shifts why the tap of a shifter, you DON'T have to use the clutch yourself, and you don't have to worry about missing a gear, and it is VERY quick) with all the advantages of a manual (no loss of power through a torque convertor and lighter because it isn't an auto) combined. How the hell is that so hard to understand? Basically this transmission has allll the advantages and none of the disadvantages, are you so hung up that you believe manual is the best kind of transmission period? Newsflash, it isn't, and having and being able to use a clutch aren't always the best things? So far all you are arguing is why isn't it a full manual?
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Old 09-21-2006, 07:21 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Pythias
It's useless he just doesn't get it.



If you could then there would be no point in having the system, WTF, how you can you not understand that. Basically this is a system with all the advantage of an automatic, (shifts why the tap of a shifter, you DON'T have to use the clutch yourself, and you don't have to worry about missing a gear, and it is VERY quick) with all the advantages of a manual (no loss of power through a torque convertor and lighter because it isn't an auto) combined. How the hell is that so hard to understand? Basically this transmission has allll the advantages and none of the disadvantages, are you so hung up that you believe manual is the best kind of transmission period? Newsflash, it isn't, and having and being able to use a clutch aren't always the best things? So far all you are arguing is why isn't it a full manual?

Hey man,

Why would you NOT HAVE THE OPTION of being able to use the clutch? You still gain ALL the other advantages that we named 10 fu cking times, except you could control the clutch if you so desired and disable the electronics of it.

Are you that air-headed that you can't understand that?

HEY HERE'S A QUESTION? Why would you need an auto-manual if you have an automatic transmission? Here's the answer: To give the consumer the option of shifting gears manually if he/she so desires. The same concept applies to this. Give the consumer the option of utilizing a fully functional manual transmission if he or she so desires.
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Old 09-21-2006, 07:32 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Bronxie
Hey man,

Why would you NOT HAVE THE OPTION of being able to use the clutch? You still gain ALL the other advantages that we named 10 fu cking times, except you could control the clutch if you so desired and disable the electronics of it.

Are you that air-headed that you can't understand that?

HEY HERE'S A QUESTION? Why would you need an auto-manual if you have an automatic transmission? Here's the answer: To give the consumer the option of shifting gears manually if he/she so desires. The same concept applies to this. Give the consumer the option of utilizing a fully functional manual transmission if he or she so desires.

Maybe because it's a new kind of transmission, that might be why. Here's the answer, sacrifices must be made, in this case, NO you can't have every little ****ing thing you want, a transmission that does everything by itself, then has the option to be fully manual as well. What the **** sense would that make? Oh I think maybe I'll use the clutch and drive it myself for awhile, ok maybe now I'll let it just work by itself. There would be NO ****ING POINT. If this transmission does everything for you and has all the advantages, why the **** would you want the option to use the clutch yourself? Just so you can? If you want a manual, go buy a ****ing manual, if you want one of the most sophisticated automatic transmissions out there, that so far beats manual by a mile because it is superior, buy the SMG.
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