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Old 04-16-2004, 06:14 PM   #16
DodgeRida67
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I can't believe you people are so damn ignorant you think it's not the heat that does it. And then you go and arque over something you don't know what the f your talking about. It's all in the heat. You hold a flame to paper and the paper burns because of the heat from the flame, it's not magic that the flame moves on to the paper.

And wow, some really ignorant soul said "pouring gas on hot coals does nothing" damn buddy, I'd hate to be around you with anything dangerous.
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Old 04-16-2004, 06:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeRida67
I can't believe you people are so damn ignorant you think it's not the heat that does it. And then you go and arque over something you don't know what the f your talking about. It's all in the heat. You hold a flame to paper and the paper burns because of the heat from the flame, it's not magic that the flame moves on to the paper.

And wow, some really ignorant soul said "pouring gas on hot coals does nothing" damn buddy, I'd hate to be around you with anything dangerous.
Do you just sit at home all day long and think of stupid things to post? I suggest that instead of resting on your laurels as an "electrition and machinic" (I hope I spelled those the way you do) maybe you should do something productive... Like get a clue.
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Old 04-16-2004, 06:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeRida67
I can't believe you people are so damn ignorant you think it's not the heat that does it. And then you go and arque over something you don't know what the f your talking about. It's all in the heat. You hold a flame to paper and the paper burns because of the heat from the flame, it's not magic that the flame moves on to the paper.

And wow, some really ignorant soul said "pouring gas on hot coals does nothing" damn buddy, I'd hate to be around you with anything dangerous.

Combustion is a chemical reaction where hydrocarbons (aka fuel) is combined with oxygen (found in air) in the presence of energy (aka heat) to release more energy than is required to start the reaction

The amount of of energy (heat) required to initiate the reaction is dependent on several variables: the pressure under which the reaction is occuring, the fuel air ratio, presence of other substances, etc.) The guy @ GM, Ford, Diamler Chrysler, etc who is deisgning an ignition system understands these variables including how much energy is required to ignite a fuel air mixture or varying ratios under about 150 psig pressure. This energy requirement is translated into spark plug gap and subsequently, ignition system secondary voltages.

If one wants to go into the gory details of exactly how this works, a good general text targeted to Senior level college engineering students is titled "Internal Combustion Engines * by E.F. Obert, P.E. General level data on ignition energies can be found in a good handbook such as Marks Mechanical Engineering Handbook, a chemistry/chemical engineering handbook or a college level chemistry text.
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Old 04-16-2004, 07:33 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbaxleyjr
Combustion is a chemical reaction where hydrocarbons (aka fuel) is combined with oxygen (found in air) in the presence of energy (aka heat) to release more energy than is required to start the reaction

The amount of of energy (heat) required to initiate the reaction is dependent on several variables: the pressure under which the reaction is occuring, the fuel air ratio, presence of other substances, etc.) The guy @ GM, Ford, Diamler Chrysler, etc who is deisgning an ignition system understands these variables including how much energy is required to ignite a fuel air mixture or varying ratios under about 150 psig pressure. This energy requirement is translated into spark plug gap and subsequently, ignition system secondary voltages.

If one wants to go into the gory details of exactly how this works, a good general text targeted to Senior level college engineering students is titled "Internal Combustion Engines * by E.F. Obert, P.E. General level data on ignition energies can be found in a good handbook such as Marks Mechanical Engineering Handbook, a chemistry/chemical engineering handbook or a college level chemistry text.

Gasoline will ignite when a heat source or electrical spark of at least 853 degrees comes in contact with it. Heat your combustiom chamber tto 860 dgs- no problem----Holy shit, here come the spark plug.
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Old 04-16-2004, 07:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeRida67
I can't believe you people are so damn ignorant you think it's not the heat that does it. And then you go and arque over something you don't know what the f your talking about. It's all in the heat. You hold a flame to paper and the paper burns because of the heat from the flame, it's not magic that the flame moves on to the paper.

And wow, some really ignorant soul said "pouring gas on hot coals does nothing" damn buddy, I'd hate to be around you with anything dangerous.

can you believe that it can cool off the coals? amazing isn't it? A flame, spark, etc. is a focused source of energy. it is able to ignite the chain reaction. The spark plug controls the reaction by starting it at a specific point. if the heat alone is what would be needed for the reaction, then why aren't we all using engines designed like diesel?

as for the gas on coals, I do not propose that you do that. if there is a slight flare up, even a moth landing in the coals, a blade of grass or a leaf being blown by the wind your dead. Paper can ignite in the presence of just heat (and oxygen) easier than gas, probably because gas vaporizes so easily that it doesn't allow oxygen in with the heat, and as a liquid it can transfer the heat.

(on a high humidity night, the gas will spread along the ground, when ignited it spreads out, then is sucked back into the center into a mushroom cloud of flame. Highly dangerous... and no I did not do it. I just watch the idiots be idiots)
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Old 04-16-2004, 08:09 PM   #21
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The reason it ignites under those conditions (the gas on the ground, etc.)
is you have the right combination of fuel, air and energy. You also probably have a fuel rich mixture under those conditions
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Old 04-16-2004, 08:33 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by tbaxleyjr
The reason it ignites under those conditions (the gas on the ground, etc.)
is you have the right combination of fuel, air and energy. You also probably have a fuel rich mixture under those conditions


Correct. Heat alone would not ignite the gas. it took more energy than the coals alone were giving off ( the paper gave more energy into a focused area, igniting the gas around it, and gas gives off even more energy, the start of the reaction.) along with the presence of oxygen.


the amount of heat given off by the spark in and of itself is not enough to ignite the gas, very little of the spark is going to go off as heat. the energy goes from one side of the gap to the other. The spark itself is the energy that ignites the gas, not any heat created by it. Static electricity can ignite gas, but yet it does not burn our hands. 853 degrees eh? water boils at 212. I can't stand water of 120-140 degrees myself. Static electricity can be fun to play with. lol.
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Old 04-16-2004, 09:38 PM   #23
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When will DodgeRida get it through his thick little head that just because a spark plug gets hot, that's NOT how it works....It's the spark that does it, that's what they do...SPARK, whithout the spark you'd have a glow plug..and as most normal people here know, a glow plug aint gonna start an SI engine...coz it's called SI for a reason
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Old 04-16-2004, 09:52 PM   #24
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He has heard people talk about hot spark and cool spark and that is what is in his head. While there are heat ratings for spark plugs, they refer to the spark plugs ability to dissapate heat.

"The term "heat range" refers to the relative temperature of the core nose of a spark plug. The words "hot" or "cold," when used in referencing spark plugs, are often a source of confusion and misunderstanding, since normally a hot spark plug is used in a cold engine (low horsepower) and a cold plug in a hot engine (high horsepower). The terms actually refer to the heat rating or thermal characteristics of the plug; more specifically, the plug's ability to dissipate heat from its firing end into the engine cooling system."

Read more at:

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/sparkplugs.html

Once he can get over this, he can realize what we have been talking about and truly be informed.
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Old 04-16-2004, 10:56 PM   #25
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I wouldn't count on him "learning" anything.
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Old 04-16-2004, 11:03 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunatic987
Correct. Heat alone would not ignite the gas. it took more energy than the coals alone were giving off ( the paper gave more energy into a focused area, igniting the gas around it, and gas gives off even more energy, the start of the reaction.) along with the presence of oxygen.


the amount of heat given off by the spark in and of itself is not enough to ignite the gas, very little of the spark is going to go off as heat. the energy goes from one side of the gap to the other. The spark itself is the energy that ignites the gas, not any heat created by it. Static electricity can ignite gas, but yet it does not burn our hands. 853 degrees eh? water boils at 212. I can't stand water of 120-140 degrees myself. Static electricity can be fun to play with. lol.

Bullshit, spark is the heat. Static electricty can and does goes beyond 100K volts ( very little amperage )/ so you don't feel the heat ?/ gasoline has no feelings.
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Last edited by lectroid : 04-16-2004 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 04-17-2004, 02:31 AM   #27
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Bullshit, spark is the heat. Static electricty can and does goes beyond 100K volts ( very little amperage )/ so you don't feel the heat ?/ gasoline has no feelings.





That's how it is. Learn it people. It's the heat from the spark (a spark is heat) that ignites the fuel.
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Old 04-17-2004, 02:34 AM   #28
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He has heard people talk about hot spark and cool spark and that is what is in his head. While there are heat ratings for spark plugs, they refer to the spark plugs ability to dissapate heat.






Could you be anymore....wrong?

That's bullsh*t. I know all about heat ranges and what they are. I'm saying that the heat from the spark (spark is heat) ignites the fuel. That's how it is. Get the F over it and admit your ignorance people.
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Old 04-17-2004, 02:39 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeRida67
Could you be anymore....wrong?

That's bullsh*t. I know all about heat ranges and what they are. I'm saying that the heat from the spark (spark is heat) ignites the fuel. That's how it is. Get the F over it and admit your ignorance people.
I'm gonna ask you a very simple question now...how old are you and how many years experience do you have with cars? because I know that most people here, that you are calling ignorant, have atleast 15 years behind them
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Old 04-17-2004, 02:57 AM   #30
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this could go on forever
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