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Old 04-14-2004, 03:05 PM   #1
cmeseadoin
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'96 pontiac Grand AM SE

Ok, here is my quandry of the day;

I own a 1996 Pontiac Grand Am SE 2.4L and I was driving to work this morning with my headlights ON and the following electrical conundrum occurred:

I went to turn the left turn signal on (with headlights on) and I just got a solid green light on the dash and NO flashing of it nor the exterior lights. The exterior signals, front and back, illuminated but did not flash. I tried the right signal and it flashed correctly for about 6 times and then went solid just like the left. I tried the hazards and both the green arrows on the dash illuminated solid and did not flash. Exterior lamps were all on just not flashing when this was going on. I would flick the right signals on and the left and back and forth and the left never worked, I always got a solid green on the dash. The right would sometimes work for a few flashes but mainly just a solid illumination just like the left signal. The hazards always failed with two solid green indicator lamps on the dash.

I got to work and turned off the headlights with the left flasher turned on so that it was a solid light on the dash. The second the headlamps went off by the switch, the flasher all returned to normal. The second the headlamps were turned back on, the flashers ceased functioning again.

This tells me the flasher is ok, yet I am thinking that I have a bad turnsignal switch because the headlamps on/off switch is on the same lever. A ground problem should not have surfaced all of a sudden over-night should it? These cars are prone to electrical problems, I do know that. It has been raining here for several days but my signals have been fine till this morning.

One thing I have noticed in the past few months is that I would every now and then hit the left signal and it would be solid and then flick it again and it was fine and I could not get it to do it again. I dismissed it as a fluke thing. Now I am having a constant issue as of this morning.

Is anyone aware of how to properlly diagnose this to determine where the point of failure is. Any information would be stellar...thanks
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Old 04-14-2004, 04:03 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmeseadoin
Ok, here is my quandry of the day;

I own a 1996 Pontiac Grand Am SE 2.4L and I was driving to work this morning with my headlights ON and the following electrical conundrum occurred:

I went to turn the left turn signal on (with headlights on) and I just got a solid green light on the dash and NO flashing of it nor the exterior lights. The exterior signals, front and back, illuminated but did not flash. I tried the right signal and it flashed correctly for about 6 times and then went solid just like the left. I tried the hazards and both the green arrows on the dash illuminated solid and did not flash. Exterior lamps were all on just not flashing when this was going on. I would flick the right signals on and the left and back and forth and the left never worked, I always got a solid green on the dash. The right would sometimes work for a few flashes but mainly just a solid illumination just like the left signal. The hazards always failed with two solid green indicator lamps on the dash.

I got to work and turned off the headlights with the left flasher turned on so that it was a solid light on the dash. The second the headlamps went off by the switch, the flasher all returned to normal. The second the headlamps were turned back on, the flashers ceased functioning again.

This tells me the flasher is ok, yet I am thinking that I have a bad turnsignal switch because the headlamps on/off switch is on the same lever. A ground problem should not have surfaced all of a sudden over-night should it? These cars are prone to electrical problems, I do know that. It has been raining here for several days but my signals have been fine till this morning.

One thing I have noticed in the past few months is that I would every now and then hit the left signal and it would be solid and then flick it again and it was fine and I could not get it to do it again. I dismissed it as a fluke thing. Now I am having a constant issue as of this morning.

Is anyone aware of how to properlly diagnose this to determine where the point of failure is. Any information would be stellar...thanks
First tell me if this only happens when the headlights are on or when only the parking lights are on as well.
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Old 04-14-2004, 04:24 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by vwhobo
First tell me if this only happens when the headlights are on or when only the parking lights are on as well.

All that has to be turned on to cause all my signals and hazards to freeze is the parking lights (first turn of the headlamp [round] switch from "off.") There seems to be no correlation to the separte fog lamp switch next to the potentiometer switch to control courtesy lights being on and off as well as the dim/brightness of the instument lights. I called the dealer and the "expert" pontiac guy seems to think that the multifunction turn signal switch is tanked. It retails for 91 bucks so I am going to pull it out and see what is going on first. It controls the headlamps, parking lamps, cruise control, turn signals and hazards and the dealer confirmed this. What do you think?
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Old 04-14-2004, 04:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmeseadoin
All that has to be turned on to cause all my signals and hazards to freeze is the parking lights (first turn of the headlamp [round] switch from "off.") There seems to be no correlation to the separte fog lamp switch next to the potentiometer switch to control courtesy lights being on and off as well as the dim/brightness of the instument lights. I called the dealer and the "expert" pontiac guy seems to think that the multifunction turn signal switch is tanked. It retails for 91 bucks so I am going to pull it out and see what is going on first. It controls the headlamps, parking lamps, cruise control, turn signals and hazards and the dealer confirmed this. What do you think?
I concur with his findings based on the new information. Better let DodgeRida67 make a call on it before you do anything though.
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Old 04-14-2004, 04:42 PM   #5
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Better let DodgeRida67 make a call on it before you do anything though.

Don't make me add this to the "dumbest thing ever heard" thread...
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Old 04-14-2004, 06:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
I concur with his findings based on the new information. Better let DodgeRida67 make a call on it before you do anything though.

Well here is some new information that will maybe slant things in another direction:

I went out to pick up lunch for work and got in the car, the signals were still doing the same thing. I flicked the around a few time BOOM, all of a sudden they are working ok. So I drove off with wonder in my mind.....Now I am sitting at a traffic light in traffic with the left signal on working fine when all of a sudden, the flashing indicator on the dash (green arrow for left turn) goes out, yet the flasher is still functioning and my exterior lights are flashing just fine and the click click of the flasher is still heard. Then a few minutes later, the green light is back on and then back off. Right signal does NOT do this. It seems fine. The hazards will only flash the right signal green indicator on the dash when the left one wont work. Now I dont have the feezing of the flashers, yet the damn indicator light for left turn goes out. Is this all inner-related? Thanks....f'n Grand Am's
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Old 04-14-2004, 06:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmeseadoin
Well here is some new information that will maybe slant things in another direction:

I went out to pick up lunch for work and got in the car, the signals were still doing the same thing. I flicked the around a few time BOOM, all of a sudden they are working ok. So I drove off with wonder in my mind.....Now I am sitting at a traffic light in traffic with the left signal on working fine when all of a sudden, the flashing indicator on the dash (green arrow for left turn) goes out, yet the flasher is still functioning and my exterior lights are flashing just fine and the click click of the flasher is still heard. Then a few minutes later, the green light is back on and then back off. Right signal does NOT do this. It seems fine. The hazards will only flash the right signal green indicator on the dash when the left one wont work. Now I dont have the feezing of the flashers, yet the damn indicator light for left turn goes out. Is this all inner-related? Thanks....f'n Grand Am's
In my experience, that isolates it even further to being a bad multi-function switch. I won't say 100% but damn close. That's GM's way of telling you it's time for a new payment.
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Old 04-14-2004, 06:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
In my experience, that isolates it even further to being a bad multi-function switch. I won't say 100% but damn close. That's GM's way of telling you it's time for a new payment.

Ok well that is a good thing then. I thought perhaps that this "new" problem could have been an indicator of something else. If that indicated to you that there may be more of an arguement not that this switch is bad, then that is worth trying. I guess all the circuitry for the flashers routes through that switch, including the indicators on the dash. That damn switch is 91 bucks and I would hate to pay that then find out the problem is still there. :-) I do have a new car.....this one is my everyday and I plan to keep it, flashers working or not LOL, as my everyday driver. Thanks for the help, will let you know. What goes bad inside those switches? Are there resistors and dioges or just contacts? If I replace it, the old one is going to come apart in one fashion or another, LOL, to look at what is inside as a learning process.
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Old 04-14-2004, 06:26 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by cmeseadoin
Ok well that is a good thing then. I thought perhaps that this "new" problem could have been an indicator of something else. If that indicated to you that there may be more of an arguement not that this switch is bad, then that is worth trying. I guess all the circuitry for the flashers routes through that switch, including the indicators on the dash. That damn switch is 91 bucks and I would hate to pay that then find out the problem is still there. :-) I do have a new car.....this one is my everyday and I plan to keep it, flashers working or not LOL, as my everyday driver. Thanks for the help, will let you know. What goes bad inside those switches? Are there resistors and dioges or just contacts? If I replace it, the old one is going to come apart in one fashion or another, LOL, to look at what is inside as a learning process.
The ones I've taken the time to tear apart always have a contact problem. If you want you can back probe all the wires to check for power in the proper place at the proper time. I still think you should wait for dildorider to tell you what to do.
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Old 04-14-2004, 06:29 PM   #10
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The ones I've taken the time to tear apart always have a contact problem. If you want you can back probe all the wires to check for power in the proper place at the proper time. I still think you should wait for dildorider to tell you what to do.


Would it be possible to tear this thing down and maybe fix it vs. spend 91 bucks? Are they riveted together or screwed? I am afraid I will find that you basically have to break it apart to separate the case?

And, no thanks to your suggestion with Dodge. LOL
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Old 04-14-2004, 06:38 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by cmeseadoin
Would it be possible to tear this thing down and maybe fix it vs. spend 91 bucks? Are they riveted together or screwed? I am afraid I will find that you basically have to break it apart to separate the case?

And, no thanks to your suggestion with Dodge. LOL
You'll have to drill/break (or is that brake ) lots of plastic welds and I think it would be near impossible to reassemble. Look at it from a practical standpoint. I know about what your income is, if you spend four hours bullsh*tting around with it it's costing you money. On the other hand it's cheaper than playing video games.

By the way, you can go to Advance and get the same part for $52. That's what they cost here anyway. I'll expect 50% of the money I just saved you to be deposited to my PayPal account by midnight tonight.
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Old 04-14-2004, 06:45 PM   #12
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By the way, you can go to Advance and get the same part for $52. That's what they cost here anyway. I'll expect 50% of the money I just saved you to be deposited to my PayPal account by midnight tonight.

I'll take 10% for comical interjections...that'll just about cover my lunch.

(no charge for this one!)
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Old 04-14-2004, 06:59 PM   #13
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You'll have to drill/break (or is that brake ) lots of plastic welds and I think it would be near impossible to reassemble. Look at it from a practical standpoint. I know about what your income is, if you spend four hours bullsh*tting around with it it's costing you money. On the other hand it's cheaper than playing video games.

By the way, you can go to Advance and get the same part for $52. That's what they cost here anyway. I'll expect 50% of the money I just saved you to be deposited to my PayPal account by midnight tonight.


Listen VWHOBO, LOL.......first of, it is BREAK as in to BREAK it.....

Secondly, I called advance auto and auto zone AND pep boys and they said DEALER PART. So what you talkin about? I think I need a deposit to MY paypal acount now for that mis-information. I will call them again and see, but that is what they told me because I am smart enough to try those options first. BUT if I am told dealer part, what can I do?

Thirdly, it is not the money. I like to learn something and I always love to fix something and if it can be done, I usually can do it because I have the smarts and determination to do so......SO with that said.
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Old 04-14-2004, 07:13 PM   #14
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Listen VWHOBO, LOL.......first of, it is BREAK as in to BREAK it.....

Secondly, I called advance auto and auto zone AND pep boys and they said DEALER PART. So what you talkin about? I think I need a deposit to MY paypal acount now for that mis-information. I will call them again and see, but that is what they told me because I am smart enough to try those options first. BUT if I am told dealer part, what can I do?

Thirdly, it is not the money. I like to learn something and I always love to fix something and if it can be done, I usually can do it because I have the smarts and determination to do so......SO with that said.
Call Advance back and tell them you're looking for a Niehoff CS2501. Usually when one of those dummies says dealer only they mean it's too hard to do their job.



http://www.partsamerica.com/PartDeta...pa rttype=408
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Old 04-14-2004, 07:16 PM   #15
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Call Advance back and tell them you're looking for a Niehoff CS2501. Usually when one of those dummies says dealer only they mean it's too hard to do their job.



http://www.partsamerica.com/PartDeta...pa rttype=408


THANKS! I just called them before I read this and they still dont have it. I called autozone and they now DO have it for 59.99. What a ****in joke. I am calling advance back now. DUMBASSES....Thanks for all your help, that is the part. SAME PICTURE! :-) THANKS!
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