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Old 01-08-2007, 09:33 PM   #16
vwhobo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxie
HMMM...

I guess you're right, that definitely is relevant here.

NOT.

Talk about being a moron!

And mind you, dictionary.com says, "I know every single word in the english langauge and I have no idea what 'unsprung' means."
And if only you had 10% of the intelligence you believe you have, you'd know that it is exactly relevant.

The tires are not supported by a spring.

The wheels are not supported by a spring.

The (outboard) brake assemblies are not supported by a spring.

The lower control arms are not supported by a spring.

The (live) rear axle assembly is not supported by a spring.

Etc.

Etc.

Therefore they are unsprung.

Therefore any weight associated with them is unsprung weight.

Is that simple and relevant enough for you... MORON?
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Old 01-08-2007, 10:13 PM   #17
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Bronxie, Hobo's right. You're trying to find argument in something that has no room for argument. Why is that always so important for you? Quit arguing and learn something.

Additional unsprung weight will reduce suspension efficiency, though relatively small amounts will be unnoticeable to the driver.

Quote:
More suraface area = more traction.

Increasing the width of the tire does not increqase surface area of the contact patch, it only makes the contact patch wider, but skinnier front to back. (given the same tire pressure and the same vehicle weight). This reduces accellerative traction slightly, but improves lateral grip.


But the bit about the increase on overall diameter reducing the overall gear ratio is spot on.
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Old 01-09-2007, 12:01 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
And if only you had 10% of the intelligence you believe you have, you'd know that it is exactly relevant.

The tires are not supported by a spring.

The wheels are not supported by a spring.

The (outboard) brake assemblies are not supported by a spring.

The lower control arms are not supported by a spring.

The (live) rear axle assembly is not supported by a spring.

Etc.

Etc.

Therefore they are unsprung.

Therefore any weight associated with them is unsprung weight.

Is that simple and relevant enough for you... MORON?



It's so fun getting info out of you
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Last edited by Bronxie : 01-09-2007 at 12:08 AM.
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Old 01-09-2007, 12:44 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV

Increasing the width of the tire does not increqase surface area of the contact patch, it only makes the contact patch wider, but skinnier front to back. (given the same tire pressure and the same vehicle weight). This reduces accellerative traction slightly, but improves lateral grip.
If wider tires reduce accelerative traction, than skinnier ones would improve it correct? Perhaps dragsters should run skinnies all around

I'm not completely arguing with what you're saying, mostly in that I can see that the contact patch would be skinnier from front to back if a wider tire were put on. The only thing is that if you put on a tire that was identical except one inch wider I don't think that the small loss in front to back area would account for all the area gained by adding one inch to the width. I dunno, maybe I missed something.
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Old 01-09-2007, 01:44 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67Coronet383
Because no one liked you?
Yeah, that's what it looks like to me.

http://www.car-forums.com/talk/showthread.php?t=25835
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Old 01-09-2007, 01:50 AM   #21
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the only way i can see larger tires and wheels making performance better is by getting bigger wheels and tires you would be able to get a big brake kit for your car, which would increase your braking performance by decreasing stopping distance.
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Old 01-09-2007, 01:59 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V-Tec
the only way i can see larger tires and wheels making performance better is by getting bigger wheels and tires you would be able to get a big brake kit for your car, which would increase your braking performance by decreasing stopping distance.
Wrong answer. More urban myths and wives tales. The standard brakes on ALMOST ALL CARS and trucks built for the last 25 years are strong enough to overpower and lock the tires during braking, even in the best of tractive conditions. Hence the addition of 4-wheel ABS to most new cars/trucks. Bigger brakes will just lock those tires sooner and easier. The simple fact is that the tires stop your car, the brakes only slow the rotational speed of the tire. Sorry.

That being said, bigger brakes generally give you better control of your braking along with being less likely to fade after repeated use.
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Old 01-09-2007, 02:32 AM   #23
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You guys are making it easy for vwhobo and ChrisV to appear uber-intelligent. Most of you...lack....knowledge.

Most of you guys joined this car forum months ago because you like cars...why haven't most of you researched about cars during those months? Do you really like cars? Some of your answers are just completely wrong...but you are so sure of them.
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Old 01-09-2007, 02:43 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
Wrong answer. More urban myths and wives tales. The standard brakes on ALMOST ALL CARS and trucks built for the last 25 years are strong enough to overpower and lock the tires during braking, even in the best of tractive conditions. Hence the addition of 4-wheel ABS to most new cars/trucks. Bigger brakes will just lock those tires sooner and easier. The simple fact is that the tires stop your car, the brakes only slow the rotational speed of the tire. Sorry.

That being said, bigger brakes generally give you better control of your braking along with being less likely to fade after repeated use.
thanks for clearing that up... took a guess and was wrong
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Old 01-09-2007, 02:56 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My Life, My Era
You guys are making it easy for vwhobo and ChrisV to appear uber-intelligent. Most of you...lack....knowledge.

Most of you guys joined this car forum months ago because you like cars...why haven't most of you researched about cars during those months? Do you really like cars? Some of your answers are just completely wrong...but you are so sure of them.
Amen to that one...
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Old 01-09-2007, 03:57 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
Increasing the width of the tire does not increase surface area of the contact patch, it only makes the contact patch wider, but skinnier front to back. (given the same tire pressure and the same vehicle weight). This reduces accelerative traction slightly, but improves lateral grip.
I don't understand how...Increasing the width of the tire should increase the surface area of the contact patch, but according to the diagram below, it's wrong lol...?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg patch.jpg (5.3 KB, 12 views)
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Old 01-09-2007, 04:06 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_knows
I don't understand how...Increasing the width of the tire should increase the surface area of the contact patch, but according to the diagram below, it's wrong lol...?
The "bend/sag" at the contact patch is less in a wider tire which makes the contact patch smaller.
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Old 01-09-2007, 04:08 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_knows
I don't understand how...Increasing the width of the tire should increase the surface area of the contact patch, but according to the diagram below, it's wrong lol...?
Chris,

You're forgetting the two conditions that make that statement true... Identical vehicle weight and tire pressure. For any given weight/pressure combination, it will require the same amount of surface pressure to hold the car off the ground. If you change one of the two, the contact patch size will change. Otherwise, only the shape will change.

Of course, we haven't explored what happens when the tire outside diameter is increased along with having a wider section. Hmmm. Anyone?


Note: Isn't it funny that two of the people with the least knowledge are telling you guys how you're making ChrisV and I look smart? I wonder why they haven't wieghed in on the situation yet. Oh yeah, I know.
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Old 01-09-2007, 04:40 AM   #29
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I get it, the weight is more dispersed, so the contact patch isn't flattened as much as with a narrower tire.
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Old 01-09-2007, 05:41 AM   #30
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So a bigger contact patch is more desirable? And if so, why are larger tires more desirable than smaller tires?
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