Car Forums  

Go Back   Car Forums > Technical Discussions > Repairs & Maintenance
FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-04-2007, 09:52 AM   #1
Cliffy
CF Loafer
 
Cliffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NE Hampshire, England, UK
Posts: 8,441
Horrible vibrating through front wheels....

Make: Citroen
Model: Xsara
Year: 1998
Engine size/type: 1400cc TU 8-valve petrol

Ok chaps, I have a problem (not a mental problem.....). The car needs a bit of work, I know exactly what work it needs and am getting it sorted gradually. Within the next week or so I'll be replacing the NSF lower arm (wishbone) as one of the bushes is severely perrished and the ball joint is worn. Well here's my problem. Ever since we've had the car (about 6-months or so) there's been this horrible vibrating sound coming from the front of it when driving. It only happens when driving at speeds of about 30mph or above, but not permenantly. It's strange because alot of the time it happens all the more when I dip the clutch pedal, but I dismissed a clutch fault due to the noise occurring even when driving normally. The noise continues for only a couple of seconds at a time and sounds as if somthing is rubbing. The other day I kind of brought the theory of a clutch problem back into account as it happened again when I dipped the pedal, only this time I kept the pedal pressed and coasted for a few seconds, and the noise continued until I stopped coasting. I done this a couple of times with the same results. I did think maybe it was something to do with the lower arm that I'm about to replace, but I can't really see that having this affect.

I also thought it could be something to do with the rear brakes a while ago, as the handbrake cable needs replaing as it's sticking and not releasing properly. If the brakes were binding on this would/could have caused this vibration, but seeing as how the noise appears to be coming from the front of the car, I dismissed this, too. Any ideas what could be the problem guys? Thanx in advance!
__________________


Please click here for the rules prior to posting, and here to introduce yourself!

Artwork courtesy of Gregg, aka Voda48

Last edited by Cliffy : 04-04-2007 at 09:56 AM.
Cliffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2007, 04:17 PM   #2
TexTruck
CF Newbie
 
TexTruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 78
Quote:
Ok chaps, I have a problem (not a mental problem.....). The car needs a bit of work, I know exactly what work it needs and am getting it sorted gradually. Within the next week or so I'll be replacing the NSF lower arm (wishbone) as one of the bushes is severely perrished and the ball joint is worn. Well here's my problem. Ever since we've had the car (about 6-months or so) there's been this horrible vibrating sound coming from the front of it when driving. It only happens when driving at speeds of about 30mph or above, but not permenantly. It's strange because alot of the time it happens all the more when I dip the clutch pedal, but I dismissed a clutch fault due to the noise occurring even when driving normally. The noise continues for only a couple of seconds at a time and sounds as if somthing is rubbing. The other day I kind of brought the theory of a clutch problem back into account as it happened again when I dipped the pedal, only this time I kept the pedal pressed and coasted for a few seconds, and the noise continued until I stopped coasting. I done this a couple of times with the same results. I did think maybe it was something to do with the lower arm that I'm about to replace, but I can't really see that having this affect.

I also thought it could be something to do with the rear brakes a while ago, as the handbrake cable needs replaing as it's sticking and not releasing properly. If the brakes were binding on this would/could have caused this vibration, but seeing as how the noise appears to be coming from the front of the car, I dismissed this, too. Any ideas what could be the problem guys? Thanx in advance!

I couldn't offer any repair advice here but maybe a little hope. If it is just strictly a vibration problem then it could be due to resonance. To put it not so simply "resonance is the tendency of a system to oscillate at maximum amplitude at a certain frequency. This frequency is known as the system's resonant frequency. When damping is small, the resonant frequency is approximately equal to the natural frequency of the system, which is the frequency of free vibrations." More simply at a certain frequency based on your speed outside factors RPM's and yes even the nice free wheeling motion such as when the clutch is depressed. Your car will vibrate. Car makers put alot of time into making this not happen but over time as parts are interchanged and wear takes place the tendency for all parts in a car to work together as one to find a resonant frequency becomes more plausible. The hope comes into the fact that when you change out the new parts on your car it may well eliminate the problem altogether. Then again it might not even have anything at all to do with your problem. I'm just offering up food for thought! Good Luck. NOW offer me some advice on my latest post coming up in about 5 minutes!!
TexTruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2007, 04:38 PM   #3
TexTruck
CF Newbie
 
TexTruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 78
Well Cliffy I have still been thinking about my response and frankly 30mph seems like and awful low speed to lead to an onset of resonance. Also you said 30mph and higher. For resonance to happen it's usually within a small speed range once you go above or below does the vibrating stop? You can achieve the same frequency at more than one speed. But the usually will be far apart and the vibrating will stop between them. Does this sound like you?
TexTruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2007, 06:42 PM   #4
67Coronet383
CF Riff Master
 
67Coronet383's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Under a hood, Georgia
Posts: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy
Make: Citroen
Model: Xsara
Year: 1998
Engine size/type: 1400cc TU 8-valve petrol

Ok chaps, I have a problem (not a mental problem.....). The car needs a bit of work, I know exactly what work it needs and am getting it sorted gradually. Within the next week or so I'll be replacing the NSF lower arm (wishbone) as one of the bushes is severely perrished and the ball joint is worn. Well here's my problem. Ever since we've had the car (about 6-months or so) there's been this horrible vibrating sound coming from the front of it when driving. It only happens when driving at speeds of about 30mph or above, but not permenantly. It's strange because alot of the time it happens all the more when I dip the clutch pedal, but I dismissed a clutch fault due to the noise occurring even when driving normally. The noise continues for only a couple of seconds at a time and sounds as if somthing is rubbing. The other day I kind of brought the theory of a clutch problem back into account as it happened again when I dipped the pedal, only this time I kept the pedal pressed and coasted for a few seconds, and the noise continued until I stopped coasting. I done this a couple of times with the same results. I did think maybe it was something to do with the lower arm that I'm about to replace, but I can't really see that having this affect.

I also thought it could be something to do with the rear brakes a while ago, as the handbrake cable needs replaing as it's sticking and not releasing properly. If the brakes were binding on this would/could have caused this vibration, but seeing as how the noise appears to be coming from the front of the car, I dismissed this, too. Any ideas what could be the problem guys? Thanx in advance!
Is this vibration felt through the steering wheel?
__________________
67Coronet383 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2007, 11:21 PM   #5
Cliffy
CF Loafer
 
Cliffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NE Hampshire, England, UK
Posts: 8,441
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67Coronet383
Is this vibration felt through the steering wheel?
Vibration was probably the wrong term. I was thinking whilst driving earlier on, that it's more of a humming, and less of a vibration, lol. You can partially feel it when steering sometimes, but it's not really a 'wheels out of ballance' type effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexTruck
Well Cliffy I have still been thinking about my response and frankly 30mph seems like and awful low speed to lead to an onset of resonance. Also you said 30mph and higher. For resonance to happen it's usually within a small speed range once you go above or below does the vibrating stop? You can achieve the same frequency at more than one speed. But the usually will be far apart and the vibrating will stop between them. Does this sound like you?
Thanks for the input. I get the jist of what you're saying, however, I noticed something else today. I was basically wrong in saying it only does it when operating the clutch, as it just felt like it did. Really it's when applying slight pressure to the accelarator pedal, as if driving normally through the gears. The reason it felt like it was the clutch was because I would obviously adjust speed at near almost the same time as i'd change gear, hence the confusion.

Thanx again guys!
__________________


Please click here for the rules prior to posting, and here to introduce yourself!

Artwork courtesy of Gregg, aka Voda48
Cliffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 03:12 PM   #6
TexTruck
CF Newbie
 
TexTruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Alberta
Posts: 78
Quote:
Vibration was probably the wrong term. I was thinking whilst driving earlier on, that it's more of a humming, and less of a vibration, lol. You can partially feel it when steering sometimes, but it's not really a 'wheels out of ballance' type effect

Ok I may be way off here especially speaking to man with your experience. But could it be a wheel bearing?? Wheel bearings hum when they're worn out and it can be more noticable when turning or cornering.
TexTruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2007, 11:24 PM   #7
Cliffy
CF Loafer
 
Cliffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NE Hampshire, England, UK
Posts: 8,441
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexTruck
Ok I may be way off here especially speaking to man with your experience. But could it be a wheel bearing?? Wheel bearings hum when they're worn out and it can be more noticable when turning or cornering.
I'm not that experienced myself, lol....not in comparison with hobo etc anyway

And no, it's definitely not a wheel bearing
__________________


Please click here for the rules prior to posting, and here to introduce yourself!

Artwork courtesy of Gregg, aka Voda48
Cliffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2007, 02:34 AM   #8
Cliffy
CF Loafer
 
Cliffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NE Hampshire, England, UK
Posts: 8,441
Update:

Well, I replaced the NS lower arm (think I mentioned this earlier) and checked the gearbox oil (because the driveshaft let a bit out), and by the look of it somebody had filled the gearbox (literally, lol), obviously through the speedo hole. It was filled nearly to the top (I must have dumped about a litre or so that wasn't needed!) to the extent that I'm shocked the box didn't seize up under hydraulic pressure! Anyway, said humming/vibration no longer exists, so it would appear that my hunch about a transmission problem was correct (sort of). Along with good news comes bad though......The knock is still there so although worn to excess the lower arm was obviously not the reason for the knocking. I have a feeling it's the drop-link on that side (it's the only other thing it can be, lol), all of about 5 mins and £10 to replace so not the end of the world I suppose!

More not so good news, I discovered a screw in my O/S/R tyre. Screws aren't usually that long so it's possible that I could pull it out without the typre deflating....but I'm not gonna risk it as I don't have a spare at the moment, lol.

Anyway, thanx for the help guys!
__________________


Please click here for the rules prior to posting, and here to introduce yourself!

Artwork courtesy of Gregg, aka Voda48
Cliffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2007, 01:40 AM   #9
Cliffy
CF Loafer
 
Cliffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NE Hampshire, England, UK
Posts: 8,441
Update number two...if anybody cares!

Ok, another update....if anyone cares, lol.

I had to drive the car to Liverpool the other day (about 550-mile round trip), and this noise returned. The good thing about a long drive is that it really gives you a good chance to test it out thoroughly if you are having problems with it. Basically after about an hour of driving the noise returned. Now at first I thought maybe it was still the gearbox at fault, and that maybe some permanent damge ahd occured. Anyway, after alot of driving I heard a sort of clicking when turning tight right hand bends/corners, so I'm almost certain it's a CV joint at fault. Not sure if I've said this before, but the CV gaitors keep slipping off and as such the grease is escaping. I should have sorted this out before leavig really, but it appeared at the time to be the smallest of my worries regarding this car, lol (As such I completely forgot about it... )

Anyway, I figured that when the lower arm was replaced the gaitor was put back on to the joint, just without a clamp to keep it in place (as it didn't have one to start with). As this was the case the gaitor probably retained most of what grease was still there until the enevitable happened and it slipped off again, thus running dry and making the usual noise and the now evident clicking on steering (obviously stayed on for quite some time as the noise took its time returning!). I'll have the car checked asap just to confirm this, but I'm 95% sure this time round, lol. Not sure if I'm asking too much here, but I might be able to get away with sticking a new boot on (sick of saying gaitor now, lol) filled with plenty of grease and secured properly this time. Or maybe I am asking too much and too much damage has been done and I'll have to replace the whole joint.....probably about 5 for the boot or 35 for the joint. Either way the work needs doing, and it's not that big a job really.
__________________


Please click here for the rules prior to posting, and here to introduce yourself!

Artwork courtesy of Gregg, aka Voda48
Cliffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2007, 02:57 AM   #10
Wally
I Know More Than You
 
Wally's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Oz
Posts: 2,564
You seem to be having fun with the LCAs. Do your wheels need hub rings?
__________________
"She gave me a look only a mother could give a child."
Wally is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:27 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2002 - 2011 Car Forums. All rights reserved.