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Old 05-29-2007, 12:26 AM   #16
Cliffy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True_Brit
ok, scrub the 25, but a 400 will do!

look

595 wasnt bad, good bargain for a good car!
They are cheap cars, but sometimes unreliable due to the prone failings of Headgaskets and water pumps...Steer clear of high milers!
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Old 05-29-2007, 12:31 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Cliffy
They are cheap cars, but sometimes unreliable due to the prone failings of Headgaskets and water pumps...Steer clear of high milers!
its only an idea though, what do you think of the Pug 306 tdi's????
i like the 306 anyway!
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Old 05-29-2007, 12:50 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by True_Brit
its only an idea though, what do you think of the Pug 306 tdi's????
i like the 306 anyway!
As far as diesels go, the French are on a par with the Germans as far as I'm concerned! Some of the best diesels ever made. Truth be told I'd drive a Pug over a Citroen, but they're the same comapny these days so it's just my badge predudice shining through, lol. I never used to like French cars, but they're growing on me now!
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Old 05-29-2007, 02:14 PM   #19
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Congrats on the purchase. Shame we don't get the interesting cars over here, though as has been said, it's bit down on power for us around here, what with the wide open spaces and the like...
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Old 05-29-2007, 02:55 PM   #20
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I can't for the life of me comprehend why people, especially those that claim to be so well informed about everything automotive, make comments like those above. Cliffy's Xantia is comparable in size, weight, room and power to the same year Honda Accord and Toyota Camry wagons, but... I've never seen anyone complain about the power or speed of an Accord or Camry for their intended purpose or complain that they weren't suitable for the US's "wide open spaces". Unfreakingbelievable.

Good job on the buy Cliffy, especially for under 600 squids. It looks like all you need is a bit of underhood cleaning and you'll have a top notch motor. Plenty of room for about three little Cliffys.
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Old 05-29-2007, 07:23 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by vwhobo
I can't for the life of me comprehend why people, especially those that claim to be so well informed about everything automotive, make comments like those above. Cliffy's Xantia is comparable in size, weight, room and power to the same year Honda Accord and Toyota Camry wagons, but... I've never seen anyone complain about the power or speed of an Accord or Camry for their intended purpose or complain that they weren't suitable for the US's "wide open spaces". Unfreakingbelievable.

4 cyl Accord and Camry wagons ARE underpowered, especially if they only had 135 hp, which they don't. Even my PT had 150 hp, and it would be considered underpowered with an automatic (0-60 in 11 seconds is underpowered, even if you can show us the 0-60 times of a VW Squareback). Ever run a 150 hp PT Cruiser up a steep hill? With stuff in it? Even my 5 speed car would lose speed up hills at highway speeds if it was even slighly loaded. And it was the quick version of the car (8 seconds o-60, but 110 mph flat out with no headwinds on the level)

The 130+ hp Toyota Matrix is considered underpowered and it's SMALLER than that Citroen. Even the European magazines agree that 135 hp in that weight class is not all that quick. Now, 100 hp in a sub 2000 lb Fiat Panda 100 is fun, but it's STILL a 9 second 0-60 car. When the average 2.5 liter 4 cyl Altima will walk it off the line, it's underpowered for most US highway use, for merging on on-ramps, etc. I'd love one in the city, but I'd hate one when trying to merge onto the Merritt Parkway with real traffic out there. The Fiat is scary enough. It feels quick by itself but when put on pace with modern traffic, it's simply not. And that can cause problems.

You've never heard complaints because the average city driver has little problems with holding up traffic in their 4 cyl Camcord. But cars with 135 hp and closing in on 3000 lbs are not suited to carrying any sort of load across these wide open spaces of the US, and up the ****ing hills and merging on uphill onramps. Hell, they don't even do well in the European mountains. You have to get closer to 2000 lbs for 135 hp to be satisfactory in the power to weight category for most of us here.

My Contour had 200 hp. That's about on par with similar year Camcord V6s, which are still considered slow cars (a 7.2 second 0-60 is relatively quick, but not earth shattering anymore). Now, for Cliffy's situation where 70 hp small cars are the norm, and city traffic being what it is, it's not as big a deal. But here in the US, that little power for it's size could cause problems for the owner in merging and carrying a load (which is what an estate is about, right?)
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:10 PM   #22
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Old 05-29-2007, 08:20 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by ChrisV
4 cyl Accord and Camry wagons ARE underpowered, especially if they only had 135 hp, which they don't. Even my PT had 150 hp, and it would be considered underpowered with an automatic (0-60 in 11 seconds is underpowered, even if you can show us the 0-60 times of a VW Squareback). Ever run a 150 hp PT Cruiser up a steep hill? With stuff in it? Even my 5 speed car would lose speed up hills at highway speeds if it was even slighly loaded. And it was the quick version of the car (8 seconds o-60, but 110 mph flat out with no headwinds on the level)

The 130+ hp Toyota Matrix is considered underpowered and it's SMALLER than that Citroen. Even the European magazines agree that 135 hp in that weight class is not all that quick. Now, 100 hp in a sub 2000 lb Fiat Panda 100 is fun, but it's STILL a 9 second 0-60 car. When the average 2.5 liter 4 cyl Altima will walk it off the line, it's underpowered for most US highway use, for merging on on-ramps, etc. I'd love one in the city, but I'd hate one when trying to merge onto the Merritt Parkway with real traffic out there. The Fiat is scary enough. It feels quick by itself but when put on pace with modern traffic, it's simply not. And that can cause problems.

You've never heard complaints because the average city driver has little problems with holding up traffic in their 4 cyl Camcord. But cars with 135 hp and closing in on 3000 lbs are not suited to carrying any sort of load across these wide open spaces of the US, and up the ****ing hills and merging on uphill onramps. Hell, they don't even do well in the European mountains. You have to get closer to 2000 lbs for 135 hp to be satisfactory in the power to weight category for most of us here.

My Contour had 200 hp. That's about on par with similar year Camcord V6s, which are still considered slow cars (a 7.2 second 0-60 is relatively quick, but not earth shattering anymore). Now, for Cliffy's situation where 70 hp small cars are the norm, and city traffic being what it is, it's not as big a deal. But here in the US, that little power for it's size could cause problems for the owner in merging and carrying a load (which is what an estate is about, right?)
Wow, ChrisV whining like an old woman menstruating, insisting that because something is his opinion it must be right and using made up, incorrect "facts" to support that opinion. What a shocker. I don't really have the time or volition to deal with you today so I'll keep it short and sweet.

Fact. No matter what you think or what your closely held opinion is, the Xantia makes power comparable to the Accord and Camry. As a matter of fact it makes 10 more horsepower than the Camry. The fact that it's lighter than both of the others, about 200 pounds lighter than the Toyota is just icing on the cake. And unlike you, I don't have to make up my facts.

Experience. My sister owns a '96 Accord LX wagon with automatic transmission that has somewhere north of 200k miles on it. She drives it cross country at least a few times a year with 3-4 adults, the back end filled with garbage, a Sears enclosed rooftop carrier loaded with more junk, and a 4'x8' utility trailer with all their camping gear and more useless junk. I tell them they look like the 21st century version of the Beverly Hillbillies. It's been to the Rockies twice and all around the mountainous parts of North Carolina regularly. Somehow she manages to run 70 mph most of the time, still gets decent mileage and the car just keeps running.

Fact and opinion. Unlike you, I work with cars like this every single day, which means I deal with their owners just as often. Know what? I have NEVER had an owner complain about a lack of power. Not one single time. Based on that fact, I have to reasonably believe that the cars are powerful enough for most people under most circumstances. More to the point, I live in the wide open spaces. My customers have to drive a long way to get to anything approaching a city, so that is not a factor.

Bottom line Chris, no matter what you think or how many words you type to bore us with your opinion, what I stated previously stands. Those cars may be underpowered in your opinion, but fortunately for mankind, not everyone is you. Have a nice day.
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Old 05-29-2007, 11:37 PM   #24
Cliffy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
I can't for the life of me comprehend why people, especially those that claim to be so well informed about everything automotive, make comments like those above. Cliffy's Xantia is comparable in size, weight, room and power to the same year Honda Accord and Toyota Camry wagons, but... I've never seen anyone complain about the power or speed of an Accord or Camry for their intended purpose or complain that they weren't suitable for the US's "wide open spaces". Unfreakingbelievable.

Good job on the buy Cliffy, especially for under 600 squids. It looks like all you need is a bit of underhood cleaning and you'll have a top notch motor. Plenty of room for about three little Cliffys.
Thanx, hobo. I know what you mean about the engine bay, however it's quite honest dirt, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
4 cyl Accord and Camry wagons ARE underpowered, especially if they only had 135 hp, which they don't. Even my PT had 150 hp, and it would be considered underpowered with an automatic (0-60 in 11 seconds is underpowered, even if you can show us the 0-60 times of a VW Squareback). Ever run a 150 hp PT Cruiser up a steep hill? With stuff in it? Even my 5 speed car would lose speed up hills at highway speeds if it was even slighly loaded. And it was the quick version of the car (8 seconds o-60, but 110 mph flat out with no headwinds on the level)
As far as the power goes, it's ok for me, and probably anybody else who owns one. By the way, this isn't the least powerful version, infact it's one of the more powerful ones! Citroen put a 1.8 and a 1.6-litre petrol engine in the Xantia. These cars were never made to break any records for speed, they were made to do a job, and in my opinion 135-bhp is more than sufficient. Granted it could do with the added oomph of the 2.0-litre turbo up some of the hills, but all in all the Xantia is a standard sized estate car which doesn't really measure ,uch more than a Ford Mondeo, and the Mondeo has the same sort of output from its engine....I guess the same could be said for all of our family estate cars really.
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