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Old 05-29-2007, 01:24 PM   #1
sean_hawn19
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alignement?

I own a 94 ford tempo gl, 2.3l, 136,000km. I just recently had to get both lower ball joints replaced (only has lower ball joints). I was told that they come with the arm assembly, and that one hard hard to get in. An alignment wasn't done, and was told that I don't need one after changing ball joints. First off is that true ? My car before hand was pull to the right slightly, I just thought it was the worn ball joint. Now after the replacment, my car is still pulling to the right. Guess I need an alignment or could it be something else ? Lastly because one ball joint assembly was hard to get in, they had to force it in, could this have bent the tie rod, causing the car to pull to the right ? I hope it's just an alignment.
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Old 05-29-2007, 02:19 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_hawn19
I own a 94 ford tempo gl, 2.3l, 136,000km. I just recently had to get both lower ball joints replaced (only has lower ball joints). I was told that they come with the arm assembly, and that one hard hard to get in. An alignment wasn't done, and was told that I don't need one after changing ball joints. First off is that true ? My car before hand was pull to the right slightly, I just thought it was the worn ball joint. Now after the replacment, my car is still pulling to the right. Guess I need an alignment or could it be something else ? Lastly because one ball joint assembly was hard to get in, they had to force it in, could this have bent the tie rod, causing the car to pull to the right ? I hope it's just an alignment.
Thanks
I'd like to start out by saying thanks for asking a coherent question with enough supporting information to draw conclusions. Good spelling and grammar is a plus.


Replacing the lower control arms on your Tempo is a simple enough job, unless you have some previous crash damage. That may explain why it had to be forced in and also why you have a pull. On the other hand, the installer may simply be incompetent which would be supported by...

Anyone who would tell you that an alignment doen't need to be accomplished after replacing a major front suspension component such as a lower control arm is a clown. Yes you need to have a four-wheel allignment performed and yes it may take care of your pull, depending on the cause of the pull. There are myriad reasons that the alignment may not be enough.

The only adjustments available on your car are for toe, both front and rear. Caster and camber are non-adjustable and are entirely dependent upon the unibody and suspension components being straight and undamaged. Shimming the rear hubs for camber is an aftermarket alternative. A shop with a qualified and knowledgeable alignment tech will be able to check your alignment and tell you what it needs to make it right.


P.S. Almost forgot. Forcing in a lower control arm will not bend a tie-rod, unless the monkey in charge absolutely beat the crap out of the front end with a 12 pound sledge, which raises the question. If he damaged a component due to his own incompetence, why didn't he replace it for free? I think it's time for you to find someone qualified to work on your car.
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Old 05-29-2007, 03:42 PM   #3
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what does the toe alignment adjust ? meaning what angle.
I was in a car accident when I first got the car. I was hit dead center of the drivers side on the center suppost post. Pushed the car sideways about a meter and swung the back end to the right. Had to replace the ball joints then and get a toe alignment. Right now in order to drive straight I have to pull the steering wheel to the left, so the ford symbol is on a 10 degree angle, maybe.

P.S does a toe alignment cost less then a full alignement ? And what besides wear on my tires and extra gas would not getting an alignment cause ?
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Old 05-29-2007, 04:56 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_hawn19
what does the toe alignment adjust ? meaning what angle.
I was in a car accident when I first got the car. I was hit dead center of the drivers side on the center suppost post. Pushed the car sideways about a meter and swung the back end to the right. Had to replace the ball joints then and get a toe alignment. Right now in order to drive straight I have to pull the steering wheel to the left, so the ford symbol is on a 10 degree angle, maybe.

P.S does a toe alignment cost less then a full alignement ? And what besides wear on my tires and extra gas would not getting an alignment cause ?
Stand up and look down at your feet. Point them straight ahead. That is zero toe. Point them out. That is toe out. Now point them out. That is toe out. Simple. Excessive front toe out will make the car wander, excessive toe in will make the car drive straight and possibly be hard to turn. Excessive rear to out will cause oversteer and make the car feel squirrely, excessive toe in goes largely unoticed. Any excessive toe will cause premature tire wear. Incorrect toe, in and of itself, does not cause a pull.

Depending upon all the factors of your wreck, your unibody may indeed be tweaked. If that's the case, no amount of aligning will ever make it drive truly straight. It may come down to a case of thrust angle, which is essentially a comparison of front and rear alignment to ensure they're both pointing the same way, being excessive which MAY be able to be adjusted out on the rear suspension. Keep in mind that there are plenty of other factors that may cause a pull besides alignment. Dragging brake(s), bad wheel bearing(s), mismatched tire size/manufacturer or simply a bad tire are just a few.

The only way to determine the cause of your problem is to have a complete 4-wheel alignment done. I have seen places that advertise 2-wheel alignments for less, but they always seem to find a problem that will require a four wheel alignemnt, usually at a price far higher than if you just ask for a 4-wheel to begin with.

Proper wheel alignment is a safety item so don't try to cheap out. Find a quality shop that will do the job right the first time and be honest enough to tell you what they can't do... Like make a bent car drive straight (if that's the case). Good luck.
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:09 AM   #5
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I am going to get an alignment, but had a few questions first. My tires have been squeeling easly around corners. Now I still have a fair amont of grip still on the tires. The air pressure is at 33 psi. What could cause this ? poor alignment. Also how can you tell if steering linkage is worn and should be replaced, besides them telling me during an alignment ? Thank for all your help.
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Old 05-31-2007, 12:24 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_hawn19
I am going to get an alignment, but had a few questions first. My tires have been squeeling easly around corners. Now I still have a fair amont of grip still on the tires. The air pressure is at 33 psi. What could cause this ? poor alignment. Also how can you tell if steering linkage is worn and should be replaced, besides them telling me during an alignment ? Thank for all your help.
Tyres squeel sometimes, the road surface factors towards this alot. Alignment shouldn't come in to the equation.
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Old 05-31-2007, 03:18 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_hawn19
what does the toe alignment adjust ? meaning what angle.
I was in a car accident when I first got the car. I was hit dead center of the drivers side on the center suppost post. Pushed the car sideways about a meter and swung the back end to the right. Had to replace the ball joints then and get a toe alignment. Right now in order to drive straight I have to pull the steering wheel to the left, so the ford symbol is on a 10 degree angle, maybe.

P.S does a toe alignment cost less then a full alignement ? And what besides wear on my tires and extra gas would not getting an alignment cause ?

The car pulling to the right is a classic symptom of torque steer due to unequal half shaft lengths and the left hand side toeing in too far. I'd be looking for all the things VWHobo suggested, but my first port of call would be to make sure the tierod adjustments are equal (bringing the steering wheel back into visual alignment) because the ackerman is proibably out.
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Old 05-31-2007, 05:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
The car pulling to the right is a classic symptom of torque steer due to unequal half shaft lengths and the left hand side toeing in too far. I'd be looking for all the things VWHobo suggested, but my first port of call would be to make sure the tierod adjustments are equal (bringing the steering wheel back into visual alignment) because the ackerman is proibably out.

tempos don't HAVE torque, wally...

get a 4 wheel alignment and get 2 ackermans (ackermen?) so you'll have a spare... gawd i'm so funny...
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Old 05-31-2007, 05:38 AM   #9
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What is a Tempo anyway? Maybe it's an Up Tempo model and the Randy Edelman is out of alignment.
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Last edited by Wally : 05-31-2007 at 05:40 AM.
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Old 05-31-2007, 11:36 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Wally
What is a Tempo anyway? Maybe it's an Up Tempo model and the Randy Edelman is out of alignment.

wow... i think you might have just totally dated yourself, there wally...
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Old 05-31-2007, 08:56 PM   #11
sean_hawn19
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will I got an alignment, it has a toe in on the left side and a toe out on the passengers side. I think he side they were off by 17 degrees or something like that. All I know it that the car handled like shit before, wondering/ pulling to the left, tires squeeling in turns, kicking in bumps to running in a straight line. Still a little pull to the right but think the tire needs a little air or could be the crown in the road. I don't know what cause the alignment to be off that far. Could having the worn ball-joints in cause the alignment to shift ? Or was putting the new ball-joints in the cause ? I know the alignment what off some before the new one were installed, because it was pulling then. Of course more so after.
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Old 06-01-2007, 12:57 AM   #12
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17 would mean your tyres wanted to travel sideways tan17 = 538 yards every mile you drove forward. Thats a lot of scub.

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Old 06-01-2007, 02:01 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Wally
17 would mean your tyres wanted to travel sideways tan17 = 538 yards every mile you drove forward. Thats a lot of scub.

.
How do you do that? I get like 3.5 lol (haven't learned radians yet).
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Old 06-01-2007, 02:45 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by tbaxleyjr
I hope he meant 1.7 deg. 17 deg is a pretty good turn - the wheels wouldn't roll.

Be one hell of a ride

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How do you do that? I get like 3.5 lol (haven't learned radians yet).

Don't need to work in radians, 17 just gives you a ratio of 1:0.306. If it was 1.7 it would be ~1:0.03 or 52 yards per mile, but at that angle the wheels would get some toe out from the vehicle moving (unlike 17 which would probably get worse)
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Old 06-02-2007, 04:01 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Wally
Be one hell of a ride



Don't need to work in radians, 17 just gives you a ratio of 1:0.306. If it was 1.7 it would be ~1:0.03 or 52 yards per mile, but at that angle the wheels would get some toe out from the vehicle moving (unlike 17 which would probably get worse)
Alright, got it .
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2 pi radians = 360 deg.
That doesn't make much sense to me (I don't know what a radian is lol).
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