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Old 08-20-2007, 08:42 AM   #31
rudypoochris
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Hondas top of the line engine makes less power and torque than any of the Big 3's. Makes less than most imports as well. Your comparing their top engine to one of GM's middle of the range motors. So whats the point? Who cares about the displacement (well obviously you). Compare apples to apples MOTORS TO MOTORS. Durrrrr. Why would the liters matter, it isn't a number that effects performance directly (except as I showed making too much hp/liter actually results in less performance for a given HP... but thats okay....)

Alot of other brands have motors that make more power and torque than Hondas top motor, hence they are better. As for reliability, your just blowing hot air man. Hondas are reliable yes, but the LS series engines is KNOWN for its reliability. Another reason why it is used in engine swaps so much. I don't know anyone who swaps Honda motors into non-honda chassis. Seriously, it just doesn't make sense.

Check Wards 10 best engine list. Honda hasn't been on it since 2005. Pre-2005 it had 10 engines on the list, GM had 17. I am not saying Honda engines are bad, they are typically great at what they are designed for. I just think it is dumb to take things out of context in the way you have. Personally I am not a GM fan. I don't have much experience with them, which was one of the reasons (coupled with availible funds) I didn't use their engine in my swap.

No body is making fun of Hondas I don't see why you need to poke fun (misguided aswell) at GM. Theres about a million negative things you could say about any brand. You know its bad when your bashing on it for HP/liter though... Whats next, cup holder count? Number of wings?

Last edited by rudypoochris : 08-20-2007 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 08-20-2007, 06:08 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by rudypoochris
Hondas top of the line engine makes less power and torque than any of the Big 3's. Makes less than most imports as well. Your comparing their top engine to one of GM's middle of the range motors. So whats the point? Who cares about the displacement (well obviously you). Compare apples to apples MOTORS TO MOTORS. Durrrrr. Why would the liters matter, it isn't a number that effects performance directly (except as I showed making too much hp/liter actually results in less performance for a given HP... but thats okay....)

Alot of other brands have motors that make more power and torque than Hondas top motor, hence they are better. As for reliability, your just blowing hot air man. Hondas are reliable yes, but the LS series engines is KNOWN for its reliability. Another reason why it is used in engine swaps so much. I don't know anyone who swaps Honda motors into non-honda chassis. Seriously, it just doesn't make sense.

Check Wards 10 best engine list. Honda hasn't been on it since 2005. Pre-2005 it had 10 engines on the list, GM had 17. I am not saying Honda engines are bad, they are typically great at what they are designed for. I just think it is dumb to take things out of context in the way you have. Personally I am not a GM fan. I don't have much experience with them, which was one of the reasons (coupled with availible funds) I didn't use their engine in my swap.

No body is making fun of Hondas I don't see why you need to poke fun (misguided aswell) at GM. Theres about a million negative things you could say about any brand. You know its bad when your bashing on it for HP/liter though... Whats next, cup holder count? Number of wings?

let me get this straight??? you thought it was ok to compare a 6L V8 to a 2L inline 4???
but you say here it is not ok to compare a 2L inline 4 to a 2L inline 4 or 3.5L V6 to a 3.5L V6??....

it was ok to compare GMs flagship sports car to honda roadster???
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Old 08-20-2007, 08:20 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by ateymura
let me get this straight??? you thought it was ok to compare a 6L V8 to a 2L inline 4??????
but you say here it is not ok to compare a 2L inline 4 to a 2L inline 4 or 3.5L V6 to a 3.5L V6??....

it was ok to compare GMs flagship sports car to honda roadster???

Well I was comparing Hondas flagship with GM's. But no matter compare ANY LS powered vehicle and it will still beat the flagship Honda in power and alot fo the time speed (S2000 is pretty slow for a sports car, no offense, and yes, it is a sports car it is marketed that way). How is that not okay? You are arguing that Honda makes great engines right? Well their best engine puts out a little over half of GM's best NOT including the GM Performance line. What else is there to compare. Motor to motor. Forget displacements for a couple seconds since they don't actually matter unless your getting taxed for it in Japan. Consider them just engines, which they are. Hands down who makes more powerful motors. Thats all there is to it. Its not GM's fault they make a more powerful motor. Are you not realizing that or what? Its an engine, one per car. GM makes a more power and torque per engine. Honda can make as many HP/liter as they want, but that isn't going to make them go any faster.

As I said before I'm not a GM fan, but seriously, theres no reason to not give credit where credit is due. Its pretty obvious a base LS1 with over 300hp and torque to match will obliterate any Honda engine which pretty much means sub 300hp or right on the 300hp mark. Theres nothing wrong with that either. Thats their strategy, GM has its own. Just saying apples to apples GM's motors are much more potent than Hondas. On the flip side Honda markets to a different crowd and some claim they spend more time on other aspects of the vehicle as a selling point (which seems to be true).

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Old 08-20-2007, 08:26 PM   #34
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guys i dont see the point of this argument its common sense GM makes more powerful motors then honda (LS engine will always be "the shit" engine, which gets swaped over and over again on rx-7, older volvos and whatever it will fit in) honda's #1 goal is not performance but Efficiency and reliability and always was, i m not saying honda doesnt make strong motors but its not its main goal
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Old 08-20-2007, 10:19 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by 07exlv6
guys i dont see the point of this argument its common sense GM makes more powerful motors then honda (LS engine will always be "the shit" engine, which gets swaped over and over again on rx-7, older volvos and whatever it will fit in) honda's #1 goal is not performance but Efficiency and reliability and always was, i m not saying honda doesnt make strong motors but its not its main goal


Exactly.
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Old 08-20-2007, 11:12 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by rudypoochris
Well I was comparing Hondas flagship with GM's. But no matter compare ANY LS powered vehicle and it will still beat the flagship Honda in power and alot fo the time speed (S2000 is pretty slow for a sports car, no offense, and yes, it is a sports car it is marketed that way). How is that not okay? You are arguing that Honda makes great engines right? Well their best engine puts out a little over half of GM's best NOT including the GM Performance line. What else is there to compare. Motor to motor. Forget displacements for a couple seconds since they don't actually matter unless your getting taxed for it in Japan. Consider them just engines, which they are. Hands down who makes more powerful motors. Thats all there is to it. Its not GM's fault they make a more powerful motor. Are you not realizing that or what? Its an engine, one per car. GM makes a more power and torque per engine. Honda can make as many HP/liter as they want, but that isn't going to make them go any faster.

As I said before I'm not a GM fan, but seriously, theres no reason to not give credit where credit is due. Its pretty obvious a base LS1 with over 300hp and torque to match will obliterate any Honda engine which pretty much means sub 300hp or right on the 300hp mark. Theres nothing wrong with that either. Thats their strategy, GM has its own. Just saying apples to apples GM's motors are much more potent than Hondas. On the flip side Honda markets to a different crowd and some claim they spend more time on other aspects of the vehicle as a selling point (which seems to be true).


so you are saing it's GM's strategy to not get the maximum possible power output from an engine?

and no s2000 isn't a sports car.. its a sporty car! but far from a sports car

all i am saing is to achieve power without boost be it GM or be it Ford they have to increase the block size.. becuase their technology isn't as advanced to allow them to reach maximum power from a smaller size engine which would at the same time be reliable!!!
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Old 08-20-2007, 11:20 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by 07exlv6
guys i dont see the point of this argument its common sense GM makes more powerful motors then honda (LS engine will always be "the shit" engine, which gets swaped over and over again on rx-7, older volvos and whatever it will fit in) honda's #1 goal is not performance but Efficiency and reliability and always was, i m not saying honda doesnt make strong motors but its not its main goal

it gets swapped into cars only because it is cheap for the power it makes...

but rx-7 wasn't rx-7 because it makes 400 horses rx-7 was what it was only because it had very decent power out of a small light engine which allowed to achive extrimely good handling and perfect weight distribution. putting a V8 into rx-7 is just waste of time and car.
that car is meant for driving on a course and not for drag.
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Old 08-21-2007, 12:32 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by ateymura
it gets swapped into cars only because it is cheap for the power it makes....

And because it is light and reliable... All of those are valid reasons. It is a superior engine, really. It isn't the most efficent or the smallest displacement, but that wasn't the goal. It is terribly good at doing what it was designed to do, massive power and torque. Honda engines do very well at what their primary goal is, propelling (mostly) FWD economy cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ateymura
but rx-7 wasn't rx-7 because it makes 400 horses rx-7 was what it was only because it had very decent power out of a small light engine which allowed to achive extrimely good handling and perfect weight distribution. putting a V8 into rx-7 is just waste of time and car.
that car is meant for driving on a course and not for drag.

You do realize that the RX-7 loses weight when you switch out the heavy sequential TT setup for the LS1... right...? This is sad.
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Old 08-21-2007, 01:08 AM   #39
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everyone knows ls1 is one of the top engines out there and thats coming from a guy who doesnt like gm, but i think im done with this thread
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Old 08-21-2007, 03:47 AM   #40
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everyone knows ls1 is one of the top engines out there and thats coming from a guy who doesnt like gm, but i think im done with this thread

so am i
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Old 08-21-2007, 06:35 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by ateymura
If you want to compare HONDA engines with GM engines try to compare the 3.5L V6 from HONDA which makes 300hp/252lb-ft....GM needs at least a 5.3L V8 to match the performance of the HONDA 3.5L V6.

Im sure GM, a billion dollar company with huge technical resources, can build a relatively small displacement high horsepower engine. They get their engineers from the same schools Honda gets theirs.

Besides, GM recently introduced a 3.6 liter V6 making 302 hp and 270 ft-lb torque.
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Old 08-21-2007, 07:30 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ateymura
it gets swapped into cars only because it is cheap for the power it makes...

but rx-7 wasn't rx-7 because it makes 400 horses rx-7 was what it was only because it had very decent power out of a small light engine which allowed to achieve extremely good handling and perfect weight distribution. putting a V8 into rx-7 is just waste of time and car.
that car is meant for driving on a course and not for drag.

Your an idiot, it's a common misconception that rotary engines are light, just because they take up less physical space doesn't mean it weights a hell of a lot less. Infact as I recall the 13b is around the same weight as an LS1.

The advantage of the rotary engine in the rx7 is that it's mounted lower and further towards the centre of the car, giving the car a lower more centred, centre of gravity. Has nothing to do with it's weight.
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Old 08-21-2007, 07:41 AM   #43
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WTF is with this engine discussion. Here is the deal in most cases

America likes everything big, from their women to their pickups, to their motors. Thats how it is, they like to think that high displacement=power, and thats their formula

Japan makes mostly smaller displacement high revving motors(dont go there with the skyline please). In japan, they have very tight streets and very tight parking, and high prices, so smaller displacement makes sense. Honda's biggest engine is I believe a 3.5 in the ridgeline pickup...look at GM pickups with their 6.5 liter, etc.etc.

Europe uses turbos a lot to power their cars..same case as japan, tight streets, tight budgets. every country makes their cars different, stop bitching everyone!

BTW to show that everyone can make a good motor, in europe, the ariel atom uses a civic type r motor, in the us, a for ecotec. Obviously they wouldnt put bad motors in that car
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Old 08-21-2007, 05:55 PM   #44
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I am so glad you could sum this up for us

Thread seems like some intresting point (and confusion on others points), good reading for lunch break though
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Old 08-22-2007, 03:02 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ateymura
so you are saing it's GM's strategy to not get the maximum possible power output from an engine?
GM gets more maximum power output from their engines by making them big. Honda doesn't, and I guess it's because they don't have the technology (that was a joke).

Quote:
and no s2000 isn't a sports car.. its a sporty car! but far from a sports car
What car is a sports car is opinion. However, I believe roadsters fall under the basic sports car umbrella.

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all i am saing is to achieve power without boost be it GM or be it Ford they have to increase the block size.. becuase their technology isn't as advanced to allow them to reach maximum power from a smaller size engine which would at the same time be reliable!!!
You still haven't answered my question as to why GM would want to make smaller engines. It is wasted time and money in development.

Quote:
it gets swapped into cars only because it is cheap for the power it makes...

but rx-7 wasn't rx-7 because it makes 400 horses rx-7 was what it was only because it had very decent power out of a small light engine which allowed to achive extrimely good handling and perfect weight distribution. putting a V8 into rx-7 is just waste of time and car.
that car is meant for driving on a course and not for drag.
As it's been said before, the LS1 is actually lighter as it's aluminum. It also is far more reliable and makes more power. Plenty of Honda motors would fit in an RX-7, but why would you do it? I'm not hating on Honda, but to say that the LS1 is heavy and unreliable is ignorant.
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