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Old 08-23-2007, 08:07 AM   #46
07exlv6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ateymura
and no s2000 isn't a sports car.. its a sporty car! but far from a sports car

u know u freakin blind me with your logic, why dont you try going to an insurance agent and get a quote on a s2000 and after u pop your eyes out from hearing the amount, ask them why, and see what they tell you...

"F20C 250hp engine on a 2600lb frame, 2 seater, convertable, rear wheel drive and 6 speed======sports car"
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Old 08-24-2007, 11:15 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by What
They get their engineers from the same schools Honda gets theirs.

This means absolutely nothing when you are co-designing(really doing bitch work) with senior engineers/designers who have total say as to what will and will not go into the design of an engine, drive train, valve train, etc..

These same senior engineers who have been with these companies for decades. They have their thoughts, opinions and designs and you HAVE to adhere to them. Provided you want to keep your job. Trust me I know.. I've been an intern at a large car company like Honda.

You are there to simply learn and adhere to the already present principles and improve upon THOSE. Those who adapt to them are generally the ones who get full-time jobs. You can't walk into GM talking about making a VTEC-like 6 cylinder engine regardless to HOW much money the company has. They just will NOT stand for it.

And for the record not all car companies pick their students from the same schools. Most tend to have a few select schools they opt to pick from. Some car company's accept students from schools others wouldn't even dream of accepting. And others car companies, especially Italian and German, ONLY accept students from a handful of schools.
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Old 08-24-2007, 11:48 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by giant016
GM gets more maximum power output from their engines by making them big. Honda doesn't, and I guess it's because they don't have the technology (that was a joke).

GM is simply adhering to their original design and improving upon that. Whomever started GM(I don't know off the top of my head) decided that it would be more beneficial for his cars to have larger displacement engines. That engineering principal has been passed down from CE to CE to CE for decades. Its not going to change anytime soon. They have grown an image to their engines and they have also improved greatly on the design.

Honda makes engines the way they do because their creator decided to make small displacement engines. They have also improved upon that design greatly.

People often overlook how complicated designing an engine is. Its not as simple as deciding a displacement and slapping some parts together. Lots of EXPENSIVE hours go into the design. Honda has pioneered their small displacement engines the same as GM has pioneered the design of their larger displacement engines.

Honda has the technology to make a high displacement V8, they just don't have the experience to make them ass efficiently and powerful as GM. The same way that most of GM doesn't have the experience to make high output 4cylinder engines. However, they are both(like all car companies) trying to learn and adapt.


Quote:
You still haven't answered my question as to why GM would want to make smaller engines. It is wasted time and money in development.
GM does make smaller engines. Cobalt, Aveo, Malibu, etc... It's not wasted time. GM "MAKES" smaller engines because the public desires smaller more gas efficient engines. Not every car that Gm offers comes with an LS6. GM like many other companies in the world make smaller more efficient things because their consumers want it. If you need someone to explain that to you then you are REALLY lost.
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Old 08-24-2007, 06:41 PM   #49
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I dont know about that. GMs ecotec is an amazing small displacement engine.
Ive seen ecotecs with up to 900hp.

I do believe it set the record for fastest (maybe quickest cant remeber) 4 cylinder.
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Old 08-25-2007, 08:47 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Enthusiast
I dont know about that. GMs ecotec is an amazing small displacement engine.
Ive seen ecotecs with up to 900hp.

I do believe it set the record for fastest (maybe quickest cant remeber) 4 cylinder.

dont know where the "record" came from but i cant say anything bad about ecotec, its a good lil engine and serves its purpose
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Old 08-26-2007, 12:20 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMer
GM does make smaller engines. Cobalt, Aveo, Malibu, etc... It's not wasted time. GM "MAKES" smaller engines because the public desires smaller more gas efficient engines. Not every car that Gm offers comes with an LS6. GM like many other companies in the world make smaller more efficient things because their consumers want it. If you need someone to explain that to you then you are REALLY lost.
I think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say. I meant why would GM make their high horsepower engines small. The kid seemed to think that GM couldn't make a 300hp 4cylinder, my question is: why would they want to when their 300+hp V8s will suffice? As you can see in this thread their V8s are (for the most part) favored by consumers.
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Old 08-28-2007, 02:28 AM   #52
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Well I have a G35 sedan and I LOVE it! It is a great car. Although I love my car I love the mustang even more. So I personally think that you should go with the mustang. Plus if you are a guy I think some guys look really big in that car because it is a smaller sedan and its short. It makes them look huge! But anyway Mustang all the way.
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Old 08-28-2007, 03:16 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07exlv6
dont know where the "record" came from but i cant say anything bad about ecotec, its a good lil engine and serves its purpose
I was watchin speed and they said it on one of the import shows.

NOPI tunervision maybe.

Im not taling about factory cars, im talking dragsters
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Old 08-28-2007, 09:12 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giant016
I think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say. I meant why would GM make their high horsepower engines small. The kid seemed to think that GM couldn't make a 300hp 4cylinder, my question is: why would they want to when their 300+hp V8s will suffice? As you can see in this thread their V8s are (for the most part) favored by consumers.

No I didn't misinterpret anything. GM can't make a 300HP 4cylinder. Not in a production car. No car company has done that. At least not to my knowledge.

I answered your question. Because GM has more experience making 300HP V8's. Thats why.
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Old 08-28-2007, 11:29 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by DSMer
No I didn't misinterpret anything. GM can't make a 300HP 4cylinder. Not in a production car. No car company has done that. At least not to my knowledge.

Well I think alot of car companies (including GM) can (even with out turbocharging), it just isn't practical. There definately are 300hp mass produced four cylinders if you count turbo cars.
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Old 08-29-2007, 10:29 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMer
No I didn't misinterpret anything. GM can't make a 300HP 4cylinder. Not in a production car. No car company has done that. At least not to my knowledge.
I believe the STi and Evo are right around 300hp.

my question is: why would they want to (build a 300hp I4) when their 300+hp V8s will suffice?
Quote:
I answered your question. Because GM has more experience making 300HP V8's. Thats why.
I asked why they would want to build the 4banger, you told me why they wouldn't.
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Old 08-29-2007, 11:50 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giant016
I believe the STi and Evo are right around 300hp.

my question is: why would they want to (build a 300hp I4) when their 300+hp V8s will suffice?

I asked why they would want to build the 4banger, you told me why they wouldn't.
Other manufacturers are getting close with the installation of turbochargers as standard on up market models...It's only a matter of time!

I believe Mitsubishi made a 340bhp version of the latest Evo. The FQ340
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Old 08-30-2007, 12:51 AM   #58
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I believe Mitsubishi made a 340bhp version of the latest Evo. The FQ340

Theres an FQ400 too. They are definately out there, but whats the point as stated. There are average people making 400hp at of 1.6L Hondas... and???? If average joe can do it, obviously billion dollar corporations aren't going to have a problem. It just doesn't make sense.

Thats another reason why the HP/liter thing is dumb. When it comes down to it, its just an engine. The typical consumer accepts a certain range of HP. Anywhere from around 150hp for an economy car to 400hp for a sports car. No consumer is going to be looking for 120hp/liter out of a 6L average sporty car. That would be insane, 720hp beast. It would sell to a select few if it somehow complied with all the regulations and didn't get shot down by the media. Someone looking for a 2L sports car though better get 120hp/liter, because even with that they aren't keeping up with their class in acceleration.
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Old 08-30-2007, 01:05 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by rudypoochris
Theres an FQ400 too. They are definately out there, but whats the point as stated. There are average people making 400hp at of 1.6L Hondas... and???? If average joe can do it, obviously billion dollar corporations aren't going to have a problem. It just doesn't make sense.

Thats another reason why the HP/liter thing is dumb. When it comes down to it, its just an engine. The typical consumer accepts a certain range of HP. Anywhere from around 150hp for an economy car to 400hp for a sports car. No consumer is going to be looking for 120hp/liter out of a 6L average sporty car. That would be insane, 720hp beast. It would sell to a select few if it somehow complied with all the regulations and didn't get shot down by the media. Someone looking for a 2L sports car though better get 120hp/liter, because even with that they aren't keeping up with their class in acceleration.
Manufacturers will only make cars that are likely to sell, and are economical to build. The Mitsubishi FQ400 has 400hp(ish), but that's what people want from such a car, especially given it's AWD setup and heritage. If you go putting that sort of power through the front wheels of a car (the standard latout of most 4-cylinder cars these days) without upgrading the steering & suspension componants you'll have serious issues...Infact, you will have handling problems regardless. Just look at the Focus RS, it had 212hp and was a nightmare under accelaration! So really, said billion dollar companies aren't going to bother with anything more than what they already are doing to cars, other than going with the flow so to speak. Obviously if the type of car warrents it, then the more power the better.
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Old 08-30-2007, 03:20 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by rudypoochris
Well I think alot of car companies (including GM) can (even with out turbocharging), it just isn't practical. There definately are 300hp mass produced four cylinders if you count turbo cars.

Without forced induction? Not likely.... I don't consider the STi to be a 300HP car. Those number are highly overrated and tested at a crank which means nothing in relation to the wheels. But I guess since that IS what car manufacturers boast. Point taken

Quote:
I asked why they would want to build the 4banger, you told me why they wouldn't.

I already told you. Because not every car GM makes can physically house a V8. Weight... gas... price... would you like me make any more obvious reasons for developing smaller engines? You're selectively choosing what you want to read now.

Quote:
There are average people making 400hp at of 1.6L Hondas... and???? If average joe can do it, obviously billion dollar corporations aren't going to have a problem. It just doesn't make sense.

No the average Joe can't make 400HP out of a 1.6L Honda. An an average joe with alot of money and good performance shops can. Or a very experienced joe with money can. If an average joe could do it then more Honda's would be alot faster.

Why does everyone assume because a car company is large they can do EVERYTHING? Don't you think if GM was so rich they would make a sedan that would rival BMW, AUDI and Mercedes? Or a compact sedan that would be massively bought such as the SRT-4 or EVo? They try. They made an attempt with the CTS-V and the Cobalt SS/ION Redline. But it just didn't work.

The truth is, they just don't have the resources nor desire to do it. If the Chevy Impala has good sales then why alter the general design? Simply improve upon it. GM is a car COMPANY. Keyword. COMPANY. Meaning that they have alot of fat cats in suits that like money and could give a shit less about a 300HP 4cylinder.

Quote:
The Mitsubishi FQ400 has 400hp(ish), but that's what people want from such a car, especially given it's AWD setup and heritage.

The FQ series of Evo's are special cases. They are not for sale in most areas that have strict regulations for motor vehicles and emissions. They are merely production cars that have been modified by a company that works in cooperation with Mitsubishi. Not to mention the FQ series Evo's cost in excess of 47000 pounds... thats $95,000. A $100,000 Evo is FAR from production and stock.

300HP out of most production 4 cylinders a very hard feat to obtain. 300WHP is really what I was referring to but for the sake of discussion crank power is what would probably be more beneficial to the argument.
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