Car Forums  

Go Back   Car Forums > Technical Discussions > Repairs & Maintenance
FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-28-2008, 05:54 AM   #1
compwiz
CF Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3
HELP!! rear wiper motor on 1996 villager is wierd

Hi!

My task for the last 5 months has been on trying to get this rear wiper motor on my 1996 mercury villager working after it broke at least 6 or 7 years ago.

I bought another motor off ebay (stupid me) for 20 bucks. i reinstalled that motor and its doing the same thing.

to start off what the motor is doing is when you press the button, and even when u dont, the motor starts to make the wiper go up and down violently. when you press the button it proceeds to go all the way once then gets stuck then when u let go of the button it goes back to its original placement. Then it goes to slightly below its original placement, like when you would try and open up the glass part of the trunk, and gets stuck there. occasionally itll do the violent thing i mentioned above.

Alright so on the part i took out to replace with the ebay part which is doing the exact same thing, i opened up the wiper motor, a "wonderful" product of valeo.
anyway i took apart the motor and seperated the two parts, the black plastic box with a circuit board, and the metal part with the motor. and tested the motor directly
the motor did proceed to go one way, and then the other as i tested it manually using a power supply.
When i examined the circuit board within the second part of the motor (the cheap black plastic box part) it looks like one of the prongs got burned.
I believe this is common in the villager, that the rear wiper motor does not work.
I have come to believe that this part of the motor is known as the "pulse board"
whatever it might be called here are the numbers, if they help:
Some number on the top of the board within a white sticker:
73921912
10 11 95

on the back there is some writing on the sides, each line below represents a space between the writings
CIDM
2
inf
09733045A
Valeo

I really hope someone can help me find a replacement board or some other solution to fix this annoying problem. I have had only one other problem with the car but as per engine issues or majro mechanical things like that its been perfect.


Thanks so much! sorry for my long-winded writing i wanted to be specific and provide all details!

-dan
compwiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2008, 02:59 PM   #2
JaneiR36
CF Freak
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 701
Dan,

Don't beat yourself up about the motor purchase. While it may be possible, I just find it hard to believe that two separate motors had the exact same whacky problem! You may have succeeded in eliminating the motor as the cause of the problem

Are you working with a Haynes or other repair manual on this? The one I have is a '96 Camry's and mentions a switch, relay, and the motor as all being part of the system. It provides troubleshooting information for the switch, Which on this vehicle is located in an area requiring removal of the steering column cover. So I say check first if your cmponemts are similar to this setup, and then regardless, the relay should be easy enough to check. I forget the details as to when you should have continuity on which pins with or without power supplied to the relay, but it should be easy enough to look up

If the relay checks out okay, you may need to look into the switch. If the connector you need to check is hard to access, consider tracing back the wires on the schematic to a more accessible location.

Also, ensure that you've done some checks like dirt & debris where it shouldn't be, any broken wires, etc. Good luck!

Last edited by JaneiR36 : 07-31-2008 at 03:05 PM.
JaneiR36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2008, 12:55 AM   #3
Wally
I Know More Than You
 
Wally's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Oz
Posts: 2,564
If it's jamming and over travelling, it might just be the linkages need a bit of grease. Th PCB won't like prolonged stalled motor current and will eventually form hot spots on the track joints.
__________________
"She gave me a look only a mother could give a child."
Wally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2008, 08:17 AM   #4
compwiz
CF Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3
Thanks all for your responses.

I did a little more studying, i found online a copy of the wiring diagram for the back of this area of the villager. the short seems to be in the back of the car near the trunk lock.

This version of the villager has opening and closing glass. when you open the glass the wiper moves down to allow opening. It seems that there is a short in that the wiper is being told to constantly keep going down even when the back lock is not being touched.

there are 2 wires going into the wiper from this lock, the wire for the wiper to move out of the way, and the ground wire for the wiper. There is a clip in the middle of these two connections to connect the wires. I bypassed the lock wire but kept the ground wire connected. I tried the wiper and it worked.

I proceeded to press the rear washer button, liquid came out, the wiper moved once over then proceeded to stop where it would if the lock short had remained intact.

well this got me a bit angry, got it to work then it stopped. I turned off the car, and disconnected the wire cause the motor was getting hot, it was pretty obvious that their might be anotehr short. i took out the motor and connected it out of the car, turned car back on pressed wiper button, wiper worked perfectly until i proceeded to press washer button.

so now i ask for advice, should i cut both the wires, the lock wire, and the washer wire, to the wiper? or should i keep the washer wiper but cut the lock wire since at least the wiper moves when the lock wire is bypassed.

If anyone has had any issues like this with the villager or any experience with annoying windshield wipers, or any advice at all, please list advice on this thread. all informative advice appreciated, and again i thank the past posters for their advice.

as a side note, the electronic wiring in the villager is astonishing. I looked at the wiring in the rear, the wires are held together with electric tape.

Maybe it is standard practice, im not sure, but to me it doesnt seem like it. At least though the motor was ruled out as being the bad part, unfortuantely it woudlve been the easiest part to replace.

thanks again

-dan
compwiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2008, 02:09 AM   #5
JaneiR36
CF Freak
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 701
Electrical tape? Haha. The idealist in me says find the source of the short and see if you can do anything in that location, because what if more wires are in the same area, just waiting to short out? But then, what is more practical.

I guess in the meantime you could try not hitting the washer fluid button and instead just wash it at gas stations and such while you buy some more time to figure out here the short is.

Was this online schematic free? Do you have a link to it? When you cut these wires, will you run a set directly from their source all the way to the desination to replace the connections so you can still keep the functions? I wondered if this is what you meant when you sid you by passed the wires

I read a tip in my manual the other day about using aluminum foil wrapped around a wire, and then use alligator clips to the AL foil with your finger pressed over the foil and wire. This could read the voltage and help locate the exact point of a wire break? Not sure if you're using a multimeter at all or if you'll need this, but if you get a chance to try it out, please let me know how it works!

PS: Did you get a chance to test the relay? I just realized that now you have multiple circuits shorting. A faulty relay may activate a circuit when it shouldn't be?? Especially if the relay controls both functions, which I don't know if it does in this case, this would make sense. Just an idea.

Is there any evidence of water damage to the connector? Corrosion of the connector would be an easy way for otherwise isolated terminals to get bussed together, IMO.

Last edited by JaneiR36 : 08-03-2008 at 02:25 PM.
JaneiR36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2008, 04:29 AM   #6
engineer
CF Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4
rear wiper wiring

connection on wiper motor
Pin 1 blk/ylw stripe to opening back window switch
pin 2 pink power supply - hot all the time
pin 3 blue to rear washer motor
pin 4 blk ground
pin 5 ylw/blk stripe power supply - hot in acc or run position
pin 6 blue/ylw stripe to rear window wiper washer switch

when the glass is opened, the wiper drops down and the window switch circuit opens, causing th ecurrent to the motor to shut off. stopping rear wiper movement.
when the rear wiper switch is depressed, the single speed motor operates about every 10 seconds. it has only one speed. when turned off, it returns to the park position.

I would not rule out the wiper motor since you put in a used one. It probably has the same defect. Water leaking into the motor circuit board will cause this problem, That's why the plastic cover to shield the motor from water intrusion. The circuit board is not a separate item. It comes with the motor.

here's a test. you shoul have 12 volts on pin 2 all the time. you should have power on pin 5 when the ignition switch is in "run" position.
pin 4 is ground and should have zero ohms.
you could run a separate ground (to test) to the wiper motor if you suspect a poor ground.

I still think it's the motor. You can buy a new one from Tasca Lincoln Mercury on line for about $100. http://www.tascafordparts.com//index.do

good luck.

PS. all wiring is wrapped in electrical tape, and it is done manually on a big board where the harness is laid out, then bundled.

Last edited by engineer : 09-02-2008 at 04:38 AM.
engineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 08:39 AM   #7
compwiz
CF Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3
hi all, sorry been busy a bit

I looked at a wiring diagram and i did the following:

Cut black/yellow striped wire it seemed thats where the short originated.

Now the following happens:
Car on
Rear button pressed
Rear wiper makes 6 sweeps back and forth
Rear wiper returns to short out position (below the rear window)

Maybe the grey connector that connects the wires to the motor itself thro the pins, is shorting out?
i did open this motor as well to make sure this board didnt fry, there was no evidence of burn.

Anyone kno of anyway to replace this grey connector?
Although no evidence of corrosion can be seen on the grey connector, from what i can tell it seems to be the root cause as JaneiR36 suggested.
I did disconnect this for now so as to not break the currently working motor.

One other bit of info:
If the water button is pressed during the 6 swipes, water will spray, one swipe will occur, then the wiper will go to short position (below rear window).

Any help is appreciated!

Last edited by compwiz : 12-05-2008 at 08:44 AM.
compwiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:58 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2002 - 2011 Car Forums. All rights reserved.