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Old 02-09-2011, 03:29 PM   #16
chris_knows
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I've got nothing against guns, def not saying to ban them...either way, if people want guns, they will be able to get them.

For clarification, by "assault rifle" I meant a rifle with selective fire. From what I've read, they are extremely popular with gangs that smuggle drugs from Mexico, and a majority of the guns were bought in the U.S.

By high capacity magazines I wasn't thinking of an exact number, but I guess more than 15-20 rounds? I just brought that up because with almost every school, mall, etc shooting that I've hear about, the shooter would use high capacity magazines. If the gun held 20 bullets instead of 30, that could mean a couple of lives saved.

On a little side note, is there any truth to the saying that guys with big guns are overcompensating?

Video was cool, but that chick was annoying as f*ck.
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Old 02-09-2011, 05:19 PM   #17
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5a. Citizens by and large can carry a gun depending on what state they live in and whether or not they chose to go through the permitting process. Nationwide, it's estimated that about 3% of the adult population lawfully carries a sidearm either openly or concealed. This approximate number does not include anyone who may carry unlawfully, whether it's because they simply chose to disobey the law or because they are a person who is prohibited from possessing a firearm.

5b. No. Holsters come in seemingly as many configurations as there are guns to carry them in. Active retention, passive retention, no retention, outside the waistband, inside the waistband, shoulder, ankle, deep concealment, leather, kydex, polymer, nylon, etc. I am not aware of any states or localities that have a specific requirement for type of holster to be used. It is up to the carrier to use the appropriate type for his or her situation and weapon being carried.

For example, yesterday I attended a funeral and then an luncheon afterwards. Due mostly to the type of clothing I wore, along with the fact that I wanted to be discreet, I carried a compact 9mm semi-auto in a leather, non-retention, IWB holster. Today because I'm going about my more or less normal business, I have a medium frame, 6-shot, .38 Special revolver in a ballistic nylon, active retention, OWB holster on my hip. My choices are made by what works best for my expected environment.

6. Felons, wife beaters, illegal aliens, drug addicts, drunks, anyone with certain documented mental health issues, people who were dishonorably discharged form the military. Here is a link to info on the form 4473 that you have to accomplish prior to purchasing a firearm at the retail level.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_4473

Then before the transaction can be completed, the retailer must contact FBI/NICS to be allowed to proceed. Info here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...d_Check_System

Firearms are the most heavily regulated consumer product in the United States. They are the only one that you have to get permission from big brother to buy. Still, the gun grabbers want to further infringe my right to keep and bear arms because of their own personal insecurity.


"No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson
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Old 02-09-2011, 06:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_knows
I've got nothing against guns, def not saying to ban them...either way, if people want guns, they will be able to get them.

For clarification, by "assault rifle" I meant a rifle with selective fire. From what I've read, they are extremely popular with gangs that smuggle drugs from Mexico, and a majority of the guns were bought in the U.S.

By high capacity magazines I wasn't thinking of an exact number, but I guess more than 15-20 rounds? I just brought that up because with almost every school, mall, etc shooting that I've hear about, the shooter would use high capacity magazines. If the gun held 20 bullets instead of 30, that could mean a couple of lives saved.

On a little side note, is there any truth to the saying that guys with big guns are overcompensating?

Video was cool, but that chick was annoying as f*ck.
You mean from what you read in the left leaning, anti-gun, lamestream media. Shocking! Here are the facts about those guns in Mexico. You can easily confirm what I'm about to tell you with just a little independent research.

What percentage of guns would need to be traced to the US for you to consider them "the majority"? 90%? 75%? 50%? How about the actual number which is 15-17%? Hardly a majority. And even that's not what it seems.

The truth of the matter is that most of the guns used by and confiscated from drug cartels in Mexico have no serial numbers, as in never had not as in removed, so they couldn't be traced to the US in any way. But of the ones that do have serial numbers, the Mexican authorities select the ones they believe came from the US and send them here for tracing. And while about 80% of the guns sent here for tracing do have US origins, they only account for 15-17% of all the guns confiscated.

But.

Note the term "US origins". A lot of those guns were not stolen or illegally purchased in the US and then smuggled across the border. A lot of them were sold by the US government to the Mexican government for use by their military and police. There is no secret that corruption runs rampant south of the border, so many firearms are sold or traded to the cartels. Even more are issued to military and police who then desert and join the cartels. Some of them were manufactured in the US and exported to other countries either for military or civilian use and end up in Mexico. All of those situations are a lot different than “came from the USA”.

And here's something for you to think about. Many of the guns that are confiscated in Mexico are select fire/full auto weapons. As mentioned earlier they are highly regulated and incredibly expensive in the US. Why would a cartel come to here and go through the expense and hassle of obtaining a full auto AK-47 when they can get them from China, North Korea, and South America for about $200 a piece delivered to their door? I can't figure out why either.

As for your concern about hi-cap mags. Except for the recent shootings in Tucson, hi-caps are actually very seldom used in crime. They make the weapon harder to conceal so most bad guys don't use them. They also tend to be less reliable than standard capacity mags. That's what stopped the Tucson freak. He had already reloaded and his hi-cap mag malfunctioned so good citizens had time to take him down.

That is a fact, but that's not what you'll read on Huff-Po or see on MSLSD.

If you want lives to be saved, the facts will tell you the best way to do so is to make it as easy as possible for law abiding citizens to carry a defensive weapon. After all, when's the last time you heard of a mass shooting at a gun show or a police picnic.

I'll go ahead and throw this out now for both you and Wally. Look into John Lott and Gary Kleck and their research and writings on the subject. Especially the book "More Guns, Less Crime”, available on your Kindle. They're way more convincing than me.


"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." - Alexander Hamilton


ETA: http://morningjournal.com/articles/2...d005529107.txt
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Old 02-09-2011, 11:45 PM   #19
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I'm not trying to be convinced or unconvinced. I'm trying to get an understanding of the subject, in this case from you. I won't be judging, ridiculing, praising, defending etc, you for responding to my questions. There are any number of papers written by pointy heads on the subject, but I'd rather garner raw responses.
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Old 02-10-2011, 04:49 PM   #20
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Wasn't trying to start an argument either, just trying to get some perspective. Def brought up some good points, hobo. I'll check out the book when I get some free time.
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Old 02-12-2011, 04:31 PM   #21
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7. Again, this all depends on the state you live in. Here, the closest we get to a review of any sort is during renewal of a Concealed Weapons Permit which we have to do every 4 years. Of course that only affects those of us who have submitted to the permitting process. Otherwise there is no registration of any type on firearms owners or firearms, so obviously you can't review or trace anything.

Some places, like the state of Illinois, you have to obtain a Firearms Identification Card just to touch a gun legally. Statewide all firearms have to be registered with the state government (I don't know which agency). And in Chicago you can only have one assambled and working handgun in your home, but it can't be loaded. And you can't carry it outside, even to go to your car, without disassembling it. And it has to be inspected and test fired every 2 years (I think) by the local police.

Shall not be infringed indeed.


"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
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Old 02-13-2011, 01:59 AM   #22
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* 8a. Once again this depends on the state, and/or locality. Some people believe advertising their ownership is a deterent. Some people prefer stealth. I personally don't care either way as long as the wrong people don't know. My main concern is theft while I'm away.

* 8b. I think this was covered in 6 or 7. Some places yes, some places no. Not where I live.

* 8c. See 8b.

One thing I wanted to add concerning open public records of gun registration, gun owner registration (see Illinois) and Concealed Weapons Permits. In just about every place in the US this has been done, there has been problems. Anti-gun, anti-rights nut jobs have culled the names and addresses of gun owners and harrassed law abiding citizens simply because they own guns. The anti-gun, anti-rights loonies know no boundries when it comes to making themselves heard.


"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." - Mahatma Ghandi
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Old 02-14-2011, 09:30 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_knows
For clarification, by "assault rifle" I meant a rifle with selective fire. From what I've read, they are extremely popular with gangs that smuggle drugs from Mexico, and a majority of the guns were bought in the U.S.



http://www.nssfblog.com/report-shatt...os-gun-supply/
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:39 PM   #24
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I'm sorry. I thought we were going to have a discussion.

Nevermind.
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Old 02-24-2011, 10:09 AM   #25
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Well we can discuss it if you like. But bear in mind this is one of those cultural divide subjects: I reside in a place where guns aren't proflic (supposedly).

No one could deny the economic and political success of the USA over the last century and I have a feeling that gun ownership is an ingredient in that recipe. Whether that translates into desirable lifestyle is something that is a qualitative decision; we see peoples around the world who live in abject poverty and deprivation, but many still champion their nationality and faiths, a few manage to escape into first world countries..
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