Daewoo water in oil

[jcutsh]

Ok I bought the car from my son-in-law. (Never did like the kid, but you know how wives are.)
The car is a 2000 Daewoo Leganza. At sixty thousand the car developed an oil leak near the water pump on the engine. The dealer repaired it and I had him install a new timing belt at the same time. At seventy thousand the car suddenly started blowing oil and water out of the surge tank. Ok warranty is out so I’ll change the head gasket myself, no big deal. Off comes the head, hum the gasket looks good. Head goes to shop for pressure testing and new valve job. Head is in great shape valves are re-faced and lapped in, head sheaved .004 to insure flatness, cams ok, found one bad HLA, replaced. Checked block found no cracks, minimal lip on cylinders, cyl walls smooth no scratches, etc. Everything looks good. Head goes back on (and all the time this little nagging voice in the back of my thick head keeps saying something else is wrong and it won’t shut up). Installed the head, found a bad bearing on the snake belt Idler pulley. Fixed that.
Filled engine with oil and water, Ran compression check on all cylinders, check ok. Disconnected coil plug and cranked engine for thirty seconds to oil cams and hla’s, and then says to myself, gee I didn’t put white oil in this engine. Checked oil and found three times as much oil then there was supposed to be. Whoops! Can’t be a bad block. Can it? This is a big leak. An awful lot of water was transferred in a total of maybe 40 seconds cranking time.

The car is 2000 Daewoo Leganza with 2.2L DOHC 16 Valve D-TEC. This is a Holden engine from Australia, The engine is used in several Gm cars (a Buick I think) , and the 2000 Rodeo and Amigo. I have tried searching the web for knowledge of Holden engines with no luck.
They must have an agreement to keep their mouths shut for some reason. Daewoo has little support here in the US. Europe seems to have more support. Tried to find TSB’s with no luck. I have the Daewoo service manuals, six inches thick and no clue.

My question, Has anyone seen this? Is there a weak spot between the water pump and oil pump which would account for this problem? This thing has a cast iron block and I still have trouble believing the block cracked. Foolish me! Engine has never been overheated and has been serviced on time.

My next step is to pull the pumps and check them out. At this point it might be better to pull the engine then try to fix it in the car. What do ya think?

Tanks for the help in advance,
Daewooless John

[cmeseadoin]

From everything you have stated, it does seem that you have a major leak somewhere between the cooling system and the crankcase. You said that coolant is getting into the crankcase and mixing with the oil.....is there any coolant getting into the cylinders themselves? I would presume not due to you not mentioning any type of hydro-lock or anything from the cranking. Have you pressure tested the cooling system and attempted to see where the coolant is getting into the block? You could pull off the oil pan and then pressure test the cooling system and while underneath, look to see where, up in the engine, the coolant is getting in. You may have to run dye in it too. If the leak is that large, it should not be that horrible to determine where it might be getting in. You might have a cracked block too, definite possibility for a leak that harsh.

When they started playing the Daewoo commercials here in Virginia on the radio, I thought it was a joke. I would never own one but hey, I never have so I can't really judge them other than from the assumption that they are not too popular around here.

I would make certain the head job you did is bullet proof and that the gasket is solid and then start exploring other options. Is there any leaking of coolant exteriorly such that it pools on the ground or is it just mixing with the engine oil for the most part internally?

[jcutsh]

Thanks for the repley cmeseadoin.

No water in the cyl.
No water on the ground.
Head tested and repaired by some of the best in the business, is there any other way?
Coolant system will not hold pressure.
I have not pulled the pan.
The oil pump is not in the oil pan, but mounted on the block arround the nose of the crank. Something new to me. The water pump is just above that and driven by the timing belt. They're so close together I though there might be a shared gasket.

I really love this car. It handles well, will cruise at 80 all day. The engine is filled with gm parts, and the car is fully loaded with all the acc's. The stereo is Bose six speaker. All the goodies. I liked it the moment I drove it. I had a 1998 Lexus, but I think this is a better car. The car was designed by Mercedes, The 2000 Mecedes 430 is identical except fot the badges.

[cmeseadoin]

Originally Posted by jcutsh

Thanks for the repley cmeseadoin.

No water in the cyl.
No water on the ground.
Head tested and repaired by some of the best in the business, is there any other way?
Coolant system will not hold pressure.
I have not pulled the pan.
The oil pump is not in the oil pan, but mounted on the block arround the nose of the crank. Something new to me. The water pump is just above that and driven by the timing belt. They're so close together I though there might be a shared gasket.

I really love this car. It handles well, will cruise at 80 all day. The engine is filled with gm parts, and the car is fully loaded with all the acc's. The stereo is Bose six speaker. All the goodies. I liked it the moment I drove it. I had a 1998 Lexus, but I think this is a better car. The car was designed by Mercedes, The 2000 Mecedes 430 is identical except fot the badges.

Hmm, you might then want to pull that water pump out again and have another look. Are you sure that if you had this apart before that you did not forget to install some bolt in there that closes off a hole in the block or something? I really can't think offhand of anything else. It sounds like a MAJOR leak and that is why I wonder if something internal is missing or worse yet, if you have a block crack? You might still wanna pull the oil pan and pressurize the system first to see if you can see where it is leaking into the crankcase. Perhaps if the water pump is on the lower front of the engine you can see that from the inside of the crankcase with the pan off?? Just a suggestion.

[BavarianWheels]

Originally Posted by jcutsh

I had a 1998 Lexus, but I think this is a better car. The car was designed by Mercedes, The 2000 Mecedes 430 is identical except fot the badges.

Uhmmm...there's a huge reason the Daewoo has neither the recognition nor the reputation of a Mercedes or Lexus.

Here's one: http://www.carcrashtest.com/news_rel...0/pr041100.htm

There's a saying that goes something like...

"You get what you pay for."

When comparing the Daewoo to a Mercedes and/or a Lexus...that certainly holds true.

But...you like it and that's what's important.
.
.

[lectroid]

Originally Posted by jcutsh

Ok I bought the car from my son-in-law. (Never did like the kid, but you know how wives are.)
The car is a 2000 Daewoo Leganza. At sixty thousand the car developed an oil leak near the water pump on the engine. The dealer repaired it and I had him install a new timing belt at the same time. At seventy thousand the car suddenly started blowing oil and water out of the surge tank. Ok warranty is out so I’ll change the head gasket myself, no big deal. Off comes the head, hum the gasket looks good. Head goes to shop for pressure testing and new valve job. Head is in great shape valves are re-faced and lapped in, head sheaved .004 to insure flatness, cams ok, found one bad HLA, replaced. Checked block found no cracks, minimal lip on cylinders, cyl walls smooth no scratches, etc. Everything looks good. Head goes back on (and all the time this little nagging voice in the back of my thick head keeps saying something else is wrong and it won’t shut up). Installed the head, found a bad bearing on the snake belt Idler pulley. Fixed that.
Filled engine with oil and water, Ran compression check on all cylinders, check ok. Disconnected coil plug and cranked engine for thirty seconds to oil cams and hla’s, and then says to myself, gee I didn’t put white oil in this engine. Checked oil and found three times as much oil then there was supposed to be. Whoops! Can’t be a bad block. Can it? This is a big leak. An awful lot of water was transferred in a total of maybe 40 seconds cranking time.

The car is 2000 Daewoo Leganza with 2.2L DOHC 16 Valve D-TEC. This is a Holden engine from Australia, The engine is used in several Gm cars (a Buick I think) , and the 2000 Rodeo and Amigo. I have tried searching the web for knowledge of Holden engines with no luck.
They must have an agreement to keep their mouths shut for some reason. Daewoo has little support here in the US. Europe seems to have more support. Tried to find TSB’s with no luck. I have the Daewoo service manuals, six inches thick and no clue.

My question, Has anyone seen this? Is there a weak spot between the water pump and oil pump which would account for this problem? This thing has a cast iron block and I still have trouble believing the block cracked. Foolish me! Engine has never been overheated and has been serviced on time.

My next step is to pull the pumps and check them out. At this point it might be better to pull the engine then try to fix it in the car. What do ya think?

Tanks for the help in advance,
Daewooless John

One question.Does the water pump and housing serve as the timing chain cover also???????

[DodgeRida67]

Only thing that comes to my mind to keep it simple is water is leaking out of the head bolts and into the holes drilled into the head for the oil from the valves to drain back into the oil pan. You should have put sealant on the head bolts before re-installing them. Assuming they cut into the water jackets along the cylinder walls. Pop off your valve cover, fill with coolant and crank. Get back to us..


HTH..

Originally Posted by Lectriod

One question.Does the water pump and housing serve as the timing chain cover also???????

It's not a Ford dude

[Pieface]

this may sound like a stupid question but i just want to make sure
You do use coolant/water 50 50 not just water right?

water along wont keep your car from overheating especially when cruising at 80

and whether that's the case or not it sure as hell sounds like a cracked block to me

he sounds liike he's done a few head gaskets before quit harassing about his install harass him bout the other weird things he's said like I am doing

[Wally]

.........

[cmeseadoin]

sad reality is that the head will more than likely have to come off again to look internally. You've either got something very simple yet hard to find going on, or you have a major engine problem, ie) cracked block. You've got coolant getting into the oil and therefore the cooling system is open somewhere.....you sould like you know what you are doing so get diagnosing it. Start at point A and work down the list. I think we've all given you some good information so it is up to you now to fix it or R/R it.

Yes I agree with Bav on the Daewoo theory and stick to mine.....I would not touch one with a ten foot pole. Yes the Leganza has buttons and gadgets but it's a Daewoo. Hell, common sense tells me that if it does not have the reputation that other automakers have, has not been built for as long, and does not have raving reviews then it is best to avoid it. They may be good cars, I don't know, BUT I don't want one. That is what makes the world interesting though, people have different opinions and attitudes even though I'll be damned if I can understand some of them !!! Hell, any automaker called Daewoo surely can't have much sense, LOL. I'd be embarrasses to tell my friends I drove a "Daewoo." NO offense jcutsh! ;-) all in good fun.

[lectroid]

Originally Posted by DodgeRida67

Only thing that comes to my mind to keep it simple is water is leaking out of the head bolts and into the holes drilled into the head for the oil from the valves to drain back into the oil pan. You should have put sealant on the head bolts before re-installing them. Assuming they cut into the water jackets along the cylinder walls. Pop off your valve cover, fill with coolant and crank. Get back to us..


HTH..



It's not a Ford dude

DUH! can you answer my question?

[jcutsh]

Originally Posted by Pieface

this may sound like a stupid question but i just want to make sure
You do use coolant/water 50 50 not just water right?

water along wont keep your car from overheating especially when cruising at 80

and whether that's the case or not it sure as hell sounds like a cracked block to me

he sounds liike he's done a few head gaskets before quit harassing about his install harass him bout the other weird things he's said like I am doing

Thanks pieface, There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. The timimg belt was changed by the dealer only 10k ago so all the fluids were new.

[cinqyg]

is there a heat exhanger on the car?

[jcutsh]

Originally Posted by Wally

Try finding a Holden Astra or Vectra discussion forum. They make these in a 147kW turbo version too if you decide to upgrade.

You are obviously in the know, so maybe the following will prick your memory:

Did you clean out the water from the head bolt holes before tensioning?

Did you put a new intake gasket on?

Are you saying the oil went milky just by cold cranking? If so do you think there was enough action to emulsify the oil? Or could it be the old stuff being cleaned off the oil galleries? Did your water actually level go down at the radiator?

Great Idea Wally, I have tried to find all the Aussie forums, but so far none that I have found have any troubleshooting threads on them.

The car was put together with a new GM cyl head gasket set, and new head gasket. I'm to old to do things twice.

Yes Cold crank produced almost two gallons of water in the oil, in only about 40 sec.

Yes holes were cleaned with stodard solvent (mineral spirits) It has been 80/90 degrees here. there was no water in the block during installation.

[jcutsh]

Originally Posted by lectroid

One question.Does the water pump and housing serve as the timing chain cover also???????

No the water pump sets in the block, about a five inch hole. the oil pump is located on the front of the block arround the nose of the crank.