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Old 07-20-2004, 03:20 PM   #16
importluva
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I might be mistaken, but wasn't Bob Lutz the same man who worked for Ford (i believe in the Lincoln/Mercury division) and later in Chrysler with Iacoca (sp?) in the 80s?
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Old 07-20-2004, 04:09 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by DSMer




Whilest it is pretty powerful. It doesn't attract me one bit. The way Caddy is going with the looks of their cars is hideous in my opinion. The lines just aren't right. Way to many cut-off edges and cheapy looking areas. Interior still needs to be improved it if really wants to be a Bimmer killer. I realize the M5 is a much more expensive car (probably it's main competition). But you just get SO much more over the CTS-V. Much better interior, handling, power, looks inside and out (my opinion) and overall quality.
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Old 07-20-2004, 04:17 PM   #18
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Is it just me or does this rear-end HIGHLY resemble an Impalas (other than the fact it's a direct carbon copy stretch of the CTS)?
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Old 07-20-2004, 09:55 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
Is it just me or does this rear-end HIGHLY resemble an Impalas (other than the fact it's a direct carbon copy stretch of the CTS)?

It is a GM car, so taking a design from another make and model is'nt uncommon.If you have'nt notice by now all caddilacs pretty much look the same except for their lenght, width, and or convertible top. The bodys all look like that. Tail lights all look like that. Even the trucks to an extent...

Hell yes ChrisV, nice pics. 600HP special edition CTS-V. Dayum.. and a 700HP STS-V? Watch out M5 and AMG's. Caddilac has a few tricks up its sleeve, but the people ate BMW claim the M5 will produce 1.2g on the skidpad!
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Old 07-20-2004, 11:27 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
I realize the M5 is a much more expensive car (probably it's main competition). But you just get SO much more over the CTS-V. Much better interior, handling, power, looks inside and out (my opinion) and overall quality.

Do you really get that much more power/speed out of it? The handling on eth nurburgring goes to the CTS-V, and the interior (as well as exterior of the 5 series) is being roundly lambasted by the press and enthusiasts alike...



While I do like the 5 series, it isn't enough to justify the pricetag increase.
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Old 07-20-2004, 11:31 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
Is it just me or does this rear-end HIGHLY resemble an Impalas (other than the fact it's a direct carbon copy stretch of the CTS)?

It's just you.



Much longer rear deck, no license plate between the taillights (which are round), etc.
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Old 07-21-2004, 12:07 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by ChrisV
Do you really get that much more power/speed out of it? The handling on eth nurburgring goes to the CTS-V, and the interior (as well as exterior of the 5 series) is being roundly lambasted by the press and enthusiasts alike...



While I do like the 5 series, it isn't enough to justify the pricetag increase.

Yes, I completly agree with mah man ChrisV over here. Its allready been proven that the CTS-V has superior handling on race tracks than the M series. As to the interior of the M5 and the CTS-V, well... Just look at them. You mean to tell me that the interior of an M5, wich is far less "gadgety", justifies the price increase? Without a doubt the interior of any leather BMW is comfortable. The CTS-V offers alot more gadgetry(wich alot of car consumers love) and gives a more futeristic look than that of an M5.

Shoot I'll stop beating arround the bush. The interior of the M5 is dull and boring compared to that of the CTS-V. The CTS-V gives the respective feel of a race car. The M5 seems more relaxed. Hell if ChrisV did'nt specify that that was the interior of the M5, I might have thought that of a 7-Series.
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Old 07-21-2004, 03:17 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by DSMer
Its already been proven that the CTS-V has superior handling on race tracks than the M series.

The M5 that you are comparing the CTS-V to has been basically unchanged since 2000. That's a long time in car years. The CTS-V is the first car in the M5's class to out-handle it. Your basically comparing a new car to an almost 5 year old car. If the CTS-V didn't outhandle the five year old M5, someone at Cadillac would've got slapped. And in my opinion, the CTS-V barely out-handles the M5. You're making it seem like the M5 is getting killed in the corners by the CTS-V. Car and Driver tested the CTS-V against the M5 and M3 at the track, and the CTS-V was only 0.138 seconds quicker than the FIVE YEAR OLD M5. That's basically a tie. Of course, the M3 posted the best times.

But why are we comparing the "M5" to the CTS-V? Isn't the CTS-V in the M3's class? Doesn't the M3 KILL the CTS-V in the handling department? Some say that the M3 is the "best handling car being produced"....that'll never be said about a "Caddy".

Wait until the new M5 comes out. BMW is going to set new standards in it's class. The new M5 will kill EVERYTHING. Just wait.





Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMer
You mean to tell me that the interior of an M5, which is far less "gadgety", justifies the price increase? Without a doubt the interior of any leather BMW is comfortable. The CTS-V offers alot more gadgetry (wich alot of car consumers love) and gives a more futeristic look than that of an M5.

BMW produces the most "gadgety" car of all cars. The Cadillac interior isn't as nice as you think. Car and Driver agrees with me....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Car and Driver
It (Cadillac CTS-V) could stand a richer interior......
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Old 07-21-2004, 04:44 AM   #24
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The M5 that you are comparing the CTS-V to has been basically unchanged since 2000. That's a long time in car years. The CTS-V is the first car in the M5's class to out-handle it. Your basically comparing a new car to an almost 5 year old car. If the CTS-V didn't outhandle the five year old M5, someone at Cadillac would've got slapped. And in my opinion, the CTS-V barely out-handles the M5. You're making it seem like the M5 is getting killed in the corners by the CTS-V. Car and Driver tested the CTS-V against the M5 and M3 at the track, and the CTS-V was only 0.138 seconds quicker than the FIVE YEAR OLD M5. That's basically a tie. Of course, the M3 posted the best times.

Sorry man, but the fact that the M5 has'nt been changed in 5 years is just a big excuse. No one told BMW to keep the same car for 5 years. So if the CTS-V kicks a car thats (not technically 5 years old its a 2004) not been changed in 5 years thats BMW's failure. Its a good car but the CTS-V just kicks its ass in alot of categories.

But why are we comparing the "M5" to the CTS-V? Isn't the CTS-V in the M3's class? Doesn't the M3 KILL the CTS-V in the handling department? Some say that the M3 is the "best handling car being produced"....that'll never be said about a "Caddy".

Thats because people are so damn biased towards American cars. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure the CTS-V placed higher than the M3 in the Grand Prix races, although I may be mistaken.

Wait until the new M5 comes out. BMW is going to set new standards in it's class. The new M5 will kill EVERYTHING. Just wait.

The new STS-V is going to supposedly have 500-600+HP. Talk about set new standards. That will probably be the most HP on a stock sedan since the S55 AMG or the sports coupe SL65 AMG. Damn, I could'nt even fathom that much HP stock.

BMW produces the most "gadgety" car of all cars. The Cadillac interior isn't as nice as you think. Car and Driver agrees with me....
Look at the picture of the M5's Interior and the CTS-V. Tell me how many more buttons and gadgets you see on the CTS-V compared to the M5, and the picture I posted is'nt even the complete front cabin of the CTS-V. I don't think BMW is the most gadgety anywhos of all cars. I'd have to go with something like Lexus or Mercedes in that category. BMW has a nice "concealed" look to its interior.
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Old 07-21-2004, 08:09 AM   #25
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The M5 is a good car but the CTS-V just kicks its ass in alot of categories


Name the categories where the M5 "gets its ass kicked" in.
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Old 07-21-2004, 10:55 AM   #26
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Look at the picture of the M5's Interior and the CTS-V. Tell me how many more buttons and gadgets you see on the CTS-V compared to the M5, and the picture I posted is'nt even the complete front cabin of the CTS-V. I don't think BMW is the most gadgety anywhos of all cars. I'd have to go with something like Lexus or Mercedes in that category. BMW has a nice "concealed" look to its interior.


Umm, BMW created iDrive for a reason - to not make the dashboard look like a scientific calculator.

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Old 07-21-2004, 03:46 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by gtmash
Look at the picture of the M5's Interior and the CTS-V. Tell me how many more buttons and gadgets you see on the CTS-V compared to the M5, and the picture I posted is'nt even the complete front cabin of the CTS-V. I don't think BMW is the most gadgety anywhos of all cars. I'd have to go with something like Lexus or Mercedes in that category. BMW has a nice "concealed" look to its interior.


Umm, BMW created iDrive for a reason - to not make the dashboard look like a scientific calculator.

I hate that knob, it always gets in the way of my arm resting in my fathers BMW. I wanna pull it off and shove it up the creators ass. That'll teach him to be ergonomic and space saving. There happens to be a certain simplicity to a calculator than a knob that controls everything. Try using a keyboard that only has one knob(not that keyboards have any knobs to begin with).

I feel like I'm about to unlock a secret BMW treasure with that thing. Its like a combination lock.
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Old 07-21-2004, 03:56 PM   #28
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Do you really get that much more power/speed out of it? The handling on eth nurburgring goes to the CTS-V, and the interior (as well as exterior of the 5 series) is being roundly lambasted by the press and enthusiasts alike...



While I do like the 5 series, it isn't enough to justify the pricetag increase.

The new M5 is much more advanced. The 7spd gearbox with something like 20 selectable shift patterns. The 5.0L V10 with 507hp and a cut-off program to make it run on 400hp for better fuel mileage (thats 107 hp more than the CTS-V). The interior by looking at the two is much better in the M5. the Caddy still uses too many GM plastics (I've also seen a few reviews blast the interior for it's 'not-up-to-par' status). Don't get me wrong, it's a big leap forward for GM. I just don't like the overall design of the car. The M5 only has 12 less ft-lbs of torque too, and it has .7L less of displacement. The new M5 just is overall more appealing to me. I'd happily pay the price premium over the CTS-V to get a M5. Supposedly the new M5 is going to be pulling 1.2g/1.3g on a skidpad, has nice big 19" wheels with nice big tires. I don't see the CTS-V outhandling it.
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Old 07-21-2004, 03:58 PM   #29
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It's just you.



Much longer rear deck, no license plate between the taillights (which are round), etc.

I meant the two door Monte Carlo with the vertical tail lights...oooppsss all these damn GM vehicles.
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Old 07-21-2004, 04:03 PM   #30
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Yes, I completly agree with mah man ChrisV over here. Its allready been proven that the CTS-V has superior handling on race tracks than the M series. As to the interior of the M5 and the CTS-V, well... Just look at them. You mean to tell me that the interior of an M5, wich is far less "gadgety", justifies the price increase? Without a doubt the interior of any leather BMW is comfortable. The CTS-V offers alot more gadgetry(wich alot of car consumers love) and gives a more futeristic look than that of an M5.

Shoot I'll stop beating arround the bush. The interior of the M5 is dull and boring compared to that of the CTS-V. The CTS-V gives the respective feel of a race car. The M5 seems more relaxed. Hell if ChrisV did'nt specify that that was the interior of the M5, I might have thought that of a 7-Series.

I disagree, you are forgetting ALL of the gadgetry is simplified on the BMW in the I-Drive system instead of having 10,000 knobs and buttons. I don't like a busy dash, because you can never find anything. Plus look at the dash on the CTS-V, it's ENTIRELY made out of a cheap looking plastic. That's not very appealing to me. While most people don't like I-Drive. I do. It seems the comp=uter generationites such as myself can get used to it pretty easily. Seems like it's most of the older folks having trouble getting used to it.
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