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Old 09-13-2004, 05:03 PM   #16
freeze
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the true definition of a muscle car in my opinion is a car that idles like crap, has trouble keeping tread on the rear tires, has practiclly no luggage room, but could destroy any ricer out there with it solid torque and insane power. much like any 60's mustang or camaro. if you have ever driven a tiny car with a masive hopped up big block you will know what i mean.
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Old 09-14-2004, 03:40 AM   #17
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Yes, now that is what i am talking about.
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Old 09-16-2004, 12:41 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeze
the true definition of a muscle car in my opinion is a car that idles like crap, has trouble keeping tread on the rear tires, has practiclly no luggage room, but could destroy any ricer out there with it solid torque and insane power. much like any 60's mustang or camaro. if you have ever driven a tiny car with a masive hopped up big block you will know what i mean.
Nicely said! I couldn't agree more!
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Old 09-16-2004, 02:23 PM   #19
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man i cant beleive that thunder bird would say that... a mustang was never considered a muscle car?!?!?!?! look man, you must not know to much about muscle cars or you would know that any late 60 model mustang were meant to be hooked up.even 70 model mach 1's.. look man you can take a 429 and drop it about any old mustang. then sup it up or you could get a 351c and have it stroked which would make it a 351m which would perform like a 429. ...then you got supercharger, blower, cams, headers, exhaust,etc......
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Old 09-16-2004, 10:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 351ci-mustang
man i cant beleive that thunder bird would say that... a mustang was never considered a muscle car?!?!?!?! look man, you must not know to much about muscle cars or you would know that any late 60 model mustang were meant to be hooked up.even 70 model mach 1's.. look man you can take a 429 and drop it about any old mustang. then sup it up or you could get a 351c and have it stroked which would make it a 351m which would perform like a 429. ...then you got supercharger, blower, cams, headers, exhaust,etc......

If you can back your answers up with facts(wich as I can tell from your VW vs 351 post you rarley do) then I'll denounce all the stupid claims you have just stated above. Seeing as that there are no words written in stone what a muscle car is(there may be but you sure as hell aint quoting them)your argument is based solely on your opinon, wich might I add is very biased. So you arguing a subject of something that does not have a definite answer is just as stupid, if not more, as me asking what the greatest mucle car is.

With that being said, bring some facts or written articles for credited sources desrcribing what a Muscle car is. Then maybe, just maybe I can take your answer for more than just a random series of nuerons firing and triggering the muscles in your finger to force out that nonsense you stated above.

Off the record. What in the hell does a cars ability to be aftermarketly modified have anything to do with the class or labeling of the car in its STOCK form? And you even had the audacity to call vwhobo a dumb "fu*k". Haha people these days....
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Old 09-20-2004, 12:44 PM   #21
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Angry

ive seen pics of the 05 Pontiac GTO (we call em monaro's here). I dont like the fog lights and the nostrils. the nostrils are purely for show anyway. apparently theres some new gearbox changes, make it more of a quick starter or something . not sure about the american variety but the new design was US orientated. we also get a smaller 5.7L engine. poop.

I want the new caprice tho, too bad i dont have 100 000 around in my bedroom.
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Old 10-02-2004, 06:37 PM   #22
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.....

Last edited by The_Wheelman : 10-02-2004 at 06:39 PM. Reason: error
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Old 10-02-2004, 06:37 PM   #23
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An incomplete simple definition of "muscle car" would be an north american made performance oriented car with a large V8, RWD, 2 DR, cheap in base price, room for 4-5 passengers.

You wouldn't consider that the following vehicles are muscle cars:

1) Pontiac Grand Prix (Luxury)

2) Chevrolet Corvette (Sports)

((**Most of this information comes from musclecarclub.com**))

Last edited by The_Wheelman : 12-14-2004 at 06:18 AM.
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Old 10-06-2004, 07:17 AM   #24
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i had a feeling muscle cars were going to come back. i mean c'mon, all those auto shows on tv now? not to mention all the damn choppers i see on the road now. stock 400+ hp coming back to the average sports car...
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Old 10-12-2004, 12:27 AM   #25
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Muscle Car definition

Technically, you could call any car with a high output engine a "muscle car." But these definitions here are pretty much right on the money.

Muscle Car Definition


Introduction:


Perhaps the most common question people have is what exactly is a muscle car. The term wasn't even used until the late 1970s, in the 1960s there were often called "Super Cars" if called anything at all. Therefore, the actual definition of a muscle car, or which models were muscle cars, is a topic that is often disputed. Here is the general interpretation of what is a muscle car and what cars qualify, and which don't.

Vehicle Muscle Car? Classification Notes
AMC AMX Yes Pony Car Even though it only has two seats, because it is based on the Javalin, it is a muscle car
AMC Javalin No Pony Car Only the AMX variation or big block V8s are considered muscle cars
Buick GS Yes Intermediate Muscle Car Based on Buick Skylark
Buick Riviera No Personal Luxury Car Too expensive and big
Buick Skylark (non-GS) No Intermediate Car Only GS versions are considered muscle cars
Buick Wildcat No Fullsize Car Too large
Chevrolet Camaro Yes Pony car Only SS and Z28 models are considered muscle cars
Chevrolet Chevelle SS Yes Intermediate Muscle Car Only SS versions are considered muscle cars
Chevrolet Chevelle (non-SS) No Intermediate Only SS versions are considered muscle cars
Chevrolet Corvette No Sports Car The two seats, fiberglass body, and high price make it a sports car.
Chevrolet Impala SS Yes Fullsize Muscle Car Only SS versions are considered muscle cars
Chevrolet Monte Carlo No Personal Luxury Too expensive
Chevrolet Nova Yes Compact Car Only SS versions are considered muscle cars
Chrysler 300 Letter Cars No Personal Luxury Way too expensive and luxurious
Dodge Challenger Yes Pony Car Only R/T versions are considered muscle cars
Dodge Charger Yes Intermediate Muscle Car Only R/T versions are considered muscle cars
Dodge Coronet Yes Fullsize Muscle Car Only R/T versions are considered muscle cars
Dodge Dart Yes Compact Only Darts with 383 or 440 engines are considered muscle cars
Dodge Daytona Yes Specialty Muscle Cars -
Dodge Super Bee Yes Intermediate Muscle Car -
Ford Fairlane / Torino GT/Cobra Yes Intermediate Muscle Car Only GT and Cobra models are considered muscle cars
Ford Galaxie Yes Fullsize muscle Only Galaxies with 390 engines or larger are considered muscle cars
Ford Mustang Yes Pony Car GTs, Mach 1's and Boss Mustangs are considered muscle cars
Mercury Comet / Cyclone Yes Intermediate Only GTs and Cyclones are considered muscle cars
Mercury Cougar Yes Pony Car Only GTs, Eliminators, and Boss engine models are considered muscle cars
Oldsmobile 442 Yes Intermediate Muscle Car -
Oldsmobile Cutlass No Intermediate Only 442 models are considered muscle cars
Plymouth Barracuda No Pony car Only 'Cuda models are considered muscle cars
Plymouth 'Cuda Yes Pony car 'Cudas with 340s are generally not considered muscle cars
Plymouth Duster Yes Compact Muscle Car Only Dusters with 340s are considered muscle cars
Plymouth GTX Yes Intermediate Muscle Car -
Plymouth Road Runner Yes Intermediate Muscle Car -
Plymouth Superbird Yes Specialty Muscle Car -
Pontiac Catalina 2+2 Yes Fullsize Muscle Car Only Catalinas with 400+ cid engines are considered muscle cars
Pontiac Firebird Yes Pony Car Only Firebirds with 400 cid engines are considered muscle cars
Pontiac Grand Prix No Personal Luxury Too expensive
Pontiac GTO Yes Intermediate Muscle Car The first true muscle car

Strict Definition of a Muscle Car:

A muscle car, by the strictest definition, is an intermediate sized, performance oriented model, powered by a large V8 engine, at an affordable price. Most of these models were based on "regular" production vehicles. These vehicles are generally not considered muscle cars, even when equipped with large V8s. If there was a high performance version available, it gets the credit, and not the vehicle that it was based on.

Examples: Buick GS, Chevrolete Chevelle SS, Dodge Charger R/T, Ford Torino/Cobra, Plymouth GTX, Plymouth Road Runner, Oldsmobile 442, Pontiac GTO


Fullsize Muscle Car:

The strict definition only includes intermediate size vehicles. In reality, performance oriented intermediate size vehicles didn't appear until 1964. Before then, manufacturers took existing fullsize vehicles and added extra performance to them. Because of this, the early fullsize performance vehicles are generally considered muscle cars.

Examples: Chevrolet Impala (SS only), Ford Galaxie (with 390 + cid engines only), Dodge Coronet (R/Ts only), etc.


Pony Cars and Compact Cars:


In addition to fullsize and intermediate muscle cars, a number of smaller vehicles started appearing on the automotive performance scene. These new "pony cars" and compact cars are generally considered muscle cars only if they have the top of the line performance engines and options.

Examples: Chevrolet Camaro (SS and Z28 models only), Ford Mustang (GTs and Boss only), Plymouth 'Cudas (no Barracudas), AMC Javelin, etc.


Personal Luxury Cars and Luxury Cars:


Although there were several personal luxury vehicles with performance engines and options, their heavy weight and high sticker prices went against the low cost performance definition of muscle cars. Therefore, they are not considered muscle cars.

Examples: Buick Riviera, Chrysler 300 Letter Cars, Pontiac Grand Prix, etc.


Two Seat Sports Cars:

Two seat sports cars such as the Chevrolet Corvette and the Ford Thunderbird are not considered muscle cars due to their high price and specialty nature. The only exception is the AMC AMX as it was relatively cheap, and was based on the AMC Javalin pony car.

Examples: AMC AMX, etc.

All material Copyright 2003 by Musclecarclub.com
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Old 10-14-2004, 04:57 AM   #26
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I like the description of the Pony Car.

In addition to fullsize and intermediate muscle cars, a number of smaller vehicles started appearing on the automotive performance scene. These new "pony cars" and compact cars are generally considered muscle cars only if they have the top of the line performance engines and options.

Keep in mind that Mustangs also come in 6cyl and (back in the day) 4cyl versions as well. I wouldn't necessarily call those Mustangs "muscle cars."
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Old 10-18-2004, 08:41 PM   #27
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american muscle needs to come back, those imports with turbos and nos make some very impressive horsepower no torque though. Import guys brag how fast there cars are with big turbos and whatever thet got, lets bring back american muscle for instance the mustang with the 4.6 liter v8 then lets turbo that like the ricers. Imagine this v8 with turbos, imagine the horsepower with a torque curve to match. That would be insane.
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Old 10-18-2004, 09:02 PM   #28
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No Replacement for Displacement
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Old 10-18-2004, 09:09 PM   #29
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Man all those defenitions above are a bunch of whootnanny. A Musclecar is nothing but a generalization or stereotype. Not all stereotypes are true or depict that particular class of car accuratley. If you're car is American(new or oldskool), and you throw an American made, high output V8 in it, it could be considered a muscle car. Hell anything American with a generally high output motor, iregaurdless to size, seating capacticy, or engine displacement could be considered a muscle car.

So if I'm pulling up to the staging lights in and that guy is in a modified V6 Mustang, hes packing heat and hes American Muscle. Point being that he's going down.... You can call a Muscle car whatever you want, but American Muscle is anything thats got a powerful engine, thats made in America....

That inlcudes, but not limited to : Corvettes, Vipers, Mustangs, Camaros, Cavaliers, Cobalts, Magnums, Lightnings, Monte Carlos, Cutlass`, Impalas, Grand Nationals, Tourinos, Cobras, Chevelle, Super Birds, Road Runners, Old Skool low riders n hotrods, Chargers, FireBirds, Grand Prixs, and finally but not last the GTO
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Old 10-18-2004, 11:44 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMer
That inlcudes, but not limited to : Corvettes, Vipers, Mustangs, Camaros, Cavaliers, Cobalts, Magnums, Lightnings, Monte Carlos, Cutlass`, Impalas, Grand Nationals, Tourinos, Cobras, Chevelle, Super Birds, Road Runners, Old Skool low riders n hotrods, Chargers, FireBirds, Grand Prixs, and finally but not last the GTO
Do Cavalier's really have a high-output engine? a 2.2L Ecotech I4 with 140 isn't neccessarily high-output to me. Now the Cobalt SS, definitely fits the muscle car of your description.
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