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Old 09-19-2004, 09:08 PM   #1
Corey
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engine swap rb20det? sr20det?

hey im looking to swapping a new engine in my 91 240sx will an s13 sr20det redtop be better than the rb20det? which will go faster?which will be easier about how fast will each go on a qm? whats the top speed? note: stock engines.....and which can hold more hp? i did some research and it came up about equal but the rb would be harder to put in some ssay the sr would be harder please help
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Old 09-21-2004, 12:50 AM   #2
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I could be wrong, but I've seen this question asked at least a half-dozen times. Do a search.
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Old 09-22-2004, 12:29 PM   #3
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Exclamation bit of help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey
hey im looking to swapping a new engine in my 91 240sx will an s13 sr20det redtop be better than the rb20det? which will go faster?which will be easier about how fast will each go on a qm? whats the top speed? note: stock engines.....and which can hold more hp? i did some research and it came up about equal but the rb would be harder to put in some ssay the sr would be harder please help

Hey, I would go with the SR20DET because its better then the RB20 in a 180sx/240sx The SR20DET will provide about 220HP and Stock on 1/4 mile will get ya around 14.3 seconds... redline about 7500rpm... whoever said that the SR20 is harder to put in mustn't know to much because it's really easy... the 1997 180sx comes with SR20... so yeah i reckon you should go the SR20
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Old 09-22-2004, 11:16 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey
hey im looking to swapping a new engine in my 91 240sx will an s13 sr20det redtop be better than the rb20det? which will go faster?which will be easier about how fast will each go on a qm? whats the top speed? note: stock engines.....and which can hold more hp? i did some research and it came up about equal but the rb would be harder to put in some ssay the sr would be harder please help

Well for starters. You should be a little more precise on what you definition of "better" is. Theres no telling wich engine will give you the highest top speed. There are alot more things than HP that will determine your top speed. As far as easier, they are both pretty handfull swaps. I would'nt exactly call any engine swap that directly bolts in, or uses custom brackets, any harder or easier than another engine swap. You're still taking out the engine completley in the first place. So if you're looking for something easy, maybe swapping is'nt for you.

Now what I can help you with is that the USDM motor allready in your 240SX, or one that can be bought for a fairly cheap price is more efficient on the quartermile than the SR20DET. The KA24DE(T), when turboed, will pull faster trap times than an SR20-T swap. So if drag racing is your thing, then you'd be better off keeping the motor you have in your car and turboeing it. Its going to be alot easier, cheaper, and more efficient for quartermile purposes to keep the motor you allready have and turbo it.

So unless you're into some kinda autocrossing or drifting, you'd be best to stay with your current motor and start looking for a turbo solution. Better fuel injectors, fuel pump, and a high-flow 2.5-3" exhaust.
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Old 09-23-2004, 09:05 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by DSMer
Well for starters. You should be a little more precise on what you definition of "better" is. Theres no telling wich engine will give you the highest top speed. There are alot more things than HP that will determine your top speed. As far as easier, they are both pretty handfull swaps. I would'nt exactly call any engine swap that directly bolts in, or uses custom brackets, any harder or easier than another engine swap. You're still taking out the engine completley in the first place. So if you're looking for something easy, maybe swapping is'nt for you.

Now what I can help you with is that the USDM motor allready in your 240SX, or one that can be bought for a fairly cheap price is more efficient on the quartermile than the SR20DET. The KA24DE(T), when turboed, will pull faster trap times than an SR20-T swap. So if drag racing is your thing, then you'd be better off keeping the motor you have in your car and turboeing it. Its going to be alot easier, cheaper, and more efficient for quartermile purposes to keep the motor you allready have and turbo it.

So unless you're into some kinda autocrossing or drifting, you'd be best to stay with your current motor and start looking for a turbo solution. Better fuel injectors, fuel pump, and a high-flow 2.5-3" exhaust.

Actually the KA24De turbo kits start at around $3,500 for the better ones, and $4500-$5500 with internals. You can get an SR20DET for $1500, comes with 205hp stock (S13) and can hold pretty massive amounts of power on stock internals. For the $3,500 it takes to turbo the KA24De, you could have a 450-500hp SR20DET. That's why so many people swap it
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Old 09-23-2004, 10:17 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbird1100
Actually the KA24De turbo kits start at around $3,500 for the better ones, and $4500-$5500 with internals. You can get an SR20DET for $1500, comes with 205hp stock (S13) and can hold pretty massive amounts of power on stock internals. For the $3,500 it takes to turbo the KA24De, you could have a 450-500hp SR20DET. That's why so many people swap it

Hmm... Its common misconceptions like this that lead people to believing that SR20 swaps are in someway "cheaper", then they turn out costing well over $3,000. First of all an SR20 cost $1500 at minimum. Not to mention shipping, so we'll just round that to $2000. Installing will cost arround another $600-$800 even if he does it himself. So you tell me how can you push a 210HP motor to 450-500 with $400-600 bucks? You obviously lack the knowledge of what this swap entitles, else you would'nt be making such ludicrous statments.

No need to reply with any statments giving quotes on various products and stuff you found offline. Save me and you the trouble of embarassment. For I have performed one of these swaps, walked through the whole buying process, and was there to oversee every single operation of it. Oh and the K24 runs a 9:2:1 compression, it may not be the best to run a turbo, but he would'nt need any internals, unless he planned on running some serious boost. Not to mention GReddy makes a $2600 turbo kit, so obviously someone has not done their reasearch on "good turbo kits".

Oh and the reason so many people swap SR20 is because they are in fact misinformed, just like you. They would like to use their car for a drift application, wich tends to work very well. Or they want to enter car shows and shiny red top SR20's look cool and get more points for show cars.

Haha $3500 to get 500HP, well I know you've never gotten a car to that much power let alone driven one with that much power. Not making statements like that. Trust me, 500HP takes alot more than just $3500. If it was that easy there would be more 500HP 240SX's arround now would'nt there?
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Old 09-25-2004, 12:17 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMer
Hmm... Its common misconceptions like this that lead people to believing that SR20 swaps are in someway "cheaper", then they turn out costing well over $3,000. First of all an SR20 cost $1500 at minimum. Not to mention shipping, so we'll just round that to $2000. Installing will cost arround another $600-$800 even if he does it himself. So you tell me how can you push a 210HP motor to 450-500 with $400-600 bucks? You obviously lack the knowledge of what this swap entitles, else you would'nt be making such ludicrous statments.

No need to reply with any statments giving quotes on various products and stuff you found offline. Save me and you the trouble of embarassment. For I have performed one of these swaps, walked through the whole buying process, and was there to oversee every single operation of it. Oh and the K24 runs a 9:2:1 compression, it may not be the best to run a turbo, but he would'nt need any internals, unless he planned on running some serious boost. Not to mention GReddy makes a $2600 turbo kit, so obviously someone has not done their reasearch on "good turbo kits".

Oh and the reason so many people swap SR20 is because they are in fact misinformed, just like you. They would like to use their car for a drift application, wich tends to work very well. Or they want to enter car shows and shiny red top SR20's look cool and get more points for show cars.

Haha $3500 to get 500HP, well I know you've never gotten a car to that much power let alone driven one with that much power. Not making statements like that. Trust me, 500HP takes alot more than just $3500. If it was that easy there would be more 500HP 240SX's arround now would'nt there?

$1500 is for the complete motor...shipping wont be much over $200-$250 pending you know WTF you're doing. Install is, like you said, between $600-$800. Sorry to say, but iI have NOT been misinformed. How many 400-500hp Ka24de's have you seen? I've seen, Zero. I've seen (with my own two eyes), about 4 400-500hp SR20's. One major advantage the Sr20 has over the Ka24De is it's redline, more oppurtunity to get more boost without the KA falling on it's face at 6000. I can't find this Greddy turbo kit (with the RD06-SH, a bit big for this application to begin with...) for under $3k. Matter of fact http://www.turbo-kits.com/240SX_turbo_kits.html there it is $3200, and only gives you 220rwhp (and that's their CHEAPEST kit, Id much rather the FMAX with the T3/04e..not to mention the Greddy kit doesnt even come with a INTERCOOLER). A stock $1500 SR20DET will yield you with at least 175rwhp and you can make up the difference in 45rwhp with 3" piping all the way back and a Boost Controller ($500 if you spend your money right). You didn't even mention installation of the Turbo kit, which shops usually charge AT LEAST $300 for that.

So let's tally this up....

SR20DET -
$1500 - motor
$250 - ship (assuming your local shop doesnt have it)
$800 - install (notice im using max for all this, my shop charges $600 for all SR20 swaps into 240's becuase it's so easy).

Total : $2550

Greddy Turbo Kit -
$3200 - kit
$30 - ship
$300 - install

Total : $3530

Looks like a grand more to me... And that Greddy price probably won't fluctuate more than $300 (will go drastically UP considering you would probably WANT an Intercooler if you are in a good state of mind), if you install it yourself, but the Sr20DET swap (Since its VERY easy), will flucuate up to $1050 less pending you dont have to ship it (which around here we dont) and install it yourself. Now, AGAIN you see why so many people swap SR20DET's in their 240's.
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Old 09-25-2004, 12:30 AM   #8
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Again, here goes that ignorance arrogant issue. You're only expressing what you THINK you know. I said not to elaborate, you'd just make yourself look like a dumbass. Go post exactly what you just did in a 240SX forum. Tell them that you plan on spending that much money max on a SR20 swap, tell them thats the reason people swap is because its cheaper. Then come back here and tell me how they laughed at you and critisized you.

Again, you have very little valid imput upon this subject. You have never done this swap, I have. Stop debating with me. I don't care what you say. I did'nt even read all of that. Your logic reasoning can't compare to a person who has actually done it.
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Old 09-25-2004, 08:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMer
Again, here goes that ignorance arrogant issue. You're only expressing what you THINK you know. I said not to elaborate, you'd just make yourself look like a dumbass. Go post exactly what you just did in a 240SX forum. Tell them that you plan on spending that much money max on a SR20 swap, tell them thats the reason people swap is because its cheaper. Then come back here and tell me how they laughed at you and critisized you.

Again, you have very little valid imput upon this subject. You have never done this swap, I have. Stop debating with me. I don't care what you say. I did'nt even read all of that. Your logic reasoning can't compare to a person who has actually done it.

I posted plain and simple facts backed up by links. Don't like it? Not my issue, deal with it. (BTW- I may not have hands on done it but I've seen parts of it done... not that it matters at all in this case, being irrelevant).
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Old 10-01-2004, 01:41 PM   #10
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As I have stated before, there are 3 version of the sr20det. And a personal attack on thunderbird1100 for his person view point isn't warranted.

For a start, In Australia, New Zealand and Japan. Very few people bother with the KA24. Why would you? ok .4ltr different. But the stroke is too long to be a high reving motor. I rev my sr20det to 9,000 rpm. It makes good power all the way to the red line. KA24 was design by nissan as a family car engine which happened to end up in the US 240sx. KA24 powers some OLD nissan family cars. IF you are after the CC. ditch the KA24 and buy a rb26dett.

Another disagreement by DSMer is the KA24 is better on the 1/4 mile. IF my sr20det power s15 siliva can keep up with a 650rwhp + Supra easy (Measured on Dyno dynamix which measure 15% lower then Dyno Jet used in US) Then the sr20 must have some power down the 1/4.

Here are some FACTS for you
http://www.fullboost.com.au/records.php?class=6
There all street cars. No one bothers with the KA24 in Oz, NZ or even in Japan. Parts for the sr20 are so easy to come by.

But back to the question, the Rb20det vs sr20det. The rb20det with its extra cylinder does help, but again it depends on which SR20DET you buy.
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Old 10-01-2004, 01:52 PM   #11
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18psi to 20psi with Sr20det Black top VVT SR20DET with intercooler and 3" exhaust, fuel pump & fuel reg & drilled injectors is common place to be pumping out 200 RW kWS That's 260rwhp. not a bad effort for a 2ltr. I have even seen sr20det pumping out 215rwkws at 20psi with factory turbo. Thats a massive increase from the Oz s15 200sx which comes with 100rwkws from factory. 147kws @ fly is around 200hp. You just doubled the HP with a few modifications.
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Old 10-01-2004, 09:06 PM   #12
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As I have stated before, there are 3 version of the sr20det. And a personal attack on thunderbird1100 for his person view point isn't warranted.

What personal attacks? If he was wrong he was wrong, its not my fault he has been misinforned, just ast you have been.

For a start, In Australia, New Zealand and Japan. Very few people bother with the KA24. Why would you? ok .4ltr different. But the stroke is too long to be a high reving motor. I rev my sr20det to 9,000 rpm. It makes good power all the way to the red line. KA24 was design by nissan as a family car engine which happened to end up in the US 240sx. KA24 powers some OLD nissan family cars. IF you are after the CC. ditch the KA24 and buy a rb26dett.
This is a buch of irrelivant b/s. Saying that people in Japan do not bother with KA24's is YOUR opinion. You don't know everyone in Japan, and you sure has hell don't know anything about drag racing. High reving, pfft there are cars that produce more output than you'd ever achieve and stay under 4000RPM. Oh but because your car as a 9000RPM redline your engine is better?

Another disagreement by DSMer is the KA24 is better on the 1/4 mile. IF my sr20det power s15 siliva can keep up with a 650rwhp + Supra easy (Measured on Dyno dynamix which measure 15% lower then Dyno Jet used in US) Then the sr20 must have some power down the 1/4.
Since when has the engine in one persons car, deem the validity of that engine?
Do you even know how many SR's are running 10's?

How many KA-T's are running 10's? Well theres a couple in Florida...

The KA-T is suited for dragging because its bulletproof, its powerband is suited towards dragging, and its easily avalibe for parts.
A Turbo kit can easily be made with a Turbonetics turbo, a spearco I/C and piping. In fact, many kits are currently avalible.

The SR20 is suited towards non-straghit line driving because its powerband is lower-down where you need it. Most SR's are running 12-14.5's in the 1/4 with the modded ones running 12's. This is because the SR20s powerband combined with the gearing make it ill-suited to drag.


Here are some FACTS for you
http://www.fullboost.com.au/records.php?class=6
There all street cars. No one bothers with the KA24 in Oz, NZ or even in Japan. Parts for the sr20 are so easy to come by.

Again I will stress this one more time, maybe you slow kids will catch it. The KA-T is the motor to drag race with. The SR-T is the motor to autocross or drift with.

Another example of "those special people". If you somehow believe that the displacement of an engine determines all on the track, you're even less inept of a brain than I orginally thought you were. Again, if you're gonna selectivley read my post then dont even bother trying to "correct" me with some bullshit ass reasoning like "My car has and Sr20 and it can keep up with a Supra" Hell my car has a 4G63 it can also keep up with a Supra... Does that mean the 4G63 should be throw into a 240SX?
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Old 10-02-2004, 02:25 PM   #13
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Unfortunately you knowledge on this matter is very limited. To a point you seem to be obtuse and injudicious. You clearly don't understand the fundamentals of turbocharged cars.

First of all due to your very limited and OBTUSE knowledge.

"Do you even know how many SR's are running 10's?"
In Queensland, there are 7 10 second or better sr20 powered cars. Thats one state with 1/4 the population of Florida. Lots more others in Australia & New Zealand. And vast numbers in Japan. A lots of Sr20 cars here don't bother with NOS, yet they can still run 10 second 1/4 miles

"The SR20 is suited towards non-straghit line driving because its powerband is lower-down where you need it."

Once again you have proven yourself to be total obtuse I have never seen anyone to stupid in my life. You have no idea about modifications. First of all. apart from that fact you have NO idea what your talking about. And your a bloody idiot. So let me tell you the basics which YOU have NO idea about.

1st of all, for lamers such as yourself.
A KA24 T with a factory s15 sr20det turbo will NOT run a 10 1/4 mile. The KA would have better low down power due to its extra CC. IF you install a Garrett GT3540 turbo which is rated around 700hp. The turbo will spool around 5,000 rpm with factory Sr20 internals. So in EXTRA simple terms for a person of limited intelligence. IF you want a 10 second car without NOS, you need to run a larger turbo. Which increases the time it takes the turbo to spool. Hopefully you understand why a turbo with a larger compressor and turbine takes longer to spool.

"Saying that people in Japan do not bother with KA24's is YOUR opinion. You don't know everyone in Japan"
I know a few people in japan.

"A Turbo kit can easily be made with a Turbonetics turbo, a spearco I/C and piping. In fact, many kits are currently avalible."

Please visit this webpage below to see how VAST the range is for Sr20 parts.
http://www.takakaira.co.jp/
Once again your knowledge in Japanese aftermarket equipment is very limited.

So please, you clearly have no idea, go back to your magazines or Fast N Furious videos. I have never read so much crap in my life. Your mudda must be proud
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Old 10-02-2004, 02:39 PM   #14
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Personally I really couldn't be bothered wasting my time with your ludicrous & preposterous remarks. If there is a fund to help people with your mental disability. PLEASE tell me, I'll give a large donation
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Old 10-02-2004, 02:46 PM   #15
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I'll write a banner. Please donate to the DSMer fund. Keep mental patience in a secure mental institution.
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