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Old 11-04-2004, 09:17 PM   #76
ChrisV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theman352001
What if your 4th grade teacher had that attitude when you were asking your stupid questions? "No DSMer, 2+2 is 8 you little snot nosed bas*ard!" I bet you would have learned a lot.

Right now discipline in our schools is at an all time low. Violence is at an all time high. Maybe if there was more corporal punishment and less worrying about the feelings of someone so they don't feel like they are "wrong," we'd have less problems.

But to use your example, what if your teachers never corrected you or told you were wrong at all, because "everyone is entitled to their opinions?" Where would that leave the state of learning?

Too often uninformed opinion goes unchecked so as not to be "mean." And what service does THAT do to anyone? Especially a community like this one made up ENTIRELY of written communication about a subject? the real world doesn't hold your hand and make sure your feelings aren't hurt. Nature doesn't care, either.

You can be nice, you can be eloquent, you can have all the facts in the world on your side. But sometimes all the little brats will understand is being spanked. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

Kids get mad now when they recieve a bad grade. The online equivalent to getting a bad grade makes them mouthy, rude, and demanding that theri opinion is as valid as any fact. Once that line has been crossed, we can't administer corporal punishment, but we can cetainly deliver verbal punishment.

Quote:
And when is being an ass pratical? No it's just rude. Do you like it when people are an ass to you? Hell, you probably do because then you can continue doing what your good at. Being an ass.


There's a difference in being an ass out of the blue, and being an ass in response to someone being an ass or being mouthy. I hope you can figure it out. After dealing with message boards for almost a decade, I've found that being nice doesn't ever address ignorance or make the rude, opinionated, disruptive members go away. Much like little children that aren't getting the attention they want, they don't go away, they get louder and more insistent until it becomes literally painful. If you don't care about the community or the subject matter, that may not be a problem, I guess. But if you DO care, and want to make sure that actual information is passed around and misinformation is dispelled or eliminated, you'll find the same as I have.
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Old 11-04-2004, 10:47 PM   #77
theman352001
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Originally Posted by ChrisV
......You can be nice, you can be eloquent, you can have all the facts in the world on your side. But sometimes all the little brats will understand is being spanked. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

Kids get mad now when they recieve a bad grade. The online equivalent to getting a bad grade makes them mouthy, rude, and demanding that theri opinion is as valid as any fact. Once that line has been crossed, we can't administer corporal punishment, but we can cetainly deliver verbal punishment.

There's a difference in being an ass out of the blue, and being an ass in response to someone being an ass or being mouthy. I hope you can figure it out. After dealing with message boards for almost a decade, I've found that being nice doesn't ever address ignorance or make the rude, opinionated, disruptive members go away. Much like little children that aren't getting the attention they want, they don't go away, they get louder and more insistent until it becomes literally painful. If you don't care about the community or the subject matter, that may not be a problem, I guess. But if you DO care, and want to make sure that actual information is passed around and misinformation is dispelled or eliminated, you'll find the same as I have.

I have to agree with some of your points. The state of affairs with how society (schools and parents) deal with children is in a terrible condition. Too much "spare the rod" and thus to many "spoiled children".

However, I don't feel verbal punishment, especially in a web forum, is at all effective. All it does is escalate the situation so that both sides are mad as hell. And even though I made a similiar statment to DSMer in a post above, I don't really believe that is all he understands.

I understand being an ass in response to an ass but it rarely benefits the first ass. All it really does is makes the responding ass feel like "I showed Him/her". I do not think I have ever seen a case on this forum where responding as an ass has ever helped. Has ever settled anything.

Now you bring up another point in the last paragraph where "Much like little children that aren't getting the attention they want, they don't go away, they get louder and more insistent until it becomes literally painful.". Come on, how can reading some text on the screen become painful? It can piss you off sure. IMHO, at that time it is best to ignore them. No attention gotten, then there is no point in continuing.

I do care about the comunity and the subject matter. I wouldn't be here if I didn't. But stoking the flame wars is not my idea of helping the comunity. Nor is being abusive.

I agree to disagree. Perhaps we will come to a mutual agreement someday.
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Old 11-04-2004, 11:20 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theman352001
I have to agree with some of your points. The state of affairs with how society (schools and parents) deal with children is in a terrible condition. Too much "spare the rod" and thus to many "spoiled children".

However, I don't feel verbal punishment, especially in a web forum, is at all effective. All it does is escalate the situation so that both sides are mad as hell. And even though I made a similiar statment to DSMer in a post above, I don't really believe that is all he understands.

I understand being an ass in response to an ass but it rarely benefits the first ass. All it really does is makes the responding ass feel like "I showed Him/her". I do not think I have ever seen a case on this forum where responding as an ass has ever helped. Has ever settled anything.

Now you bring up another point in the last paragraph where "Much like little children that aren't getting the attention they want, they don't go away, they get louder and more insistent until it becomes literally painful.". Come on, how can reading some text on the screen become painful? It can piss you off sure. IMHO, at that time it is best to ignore them. No attention gotten, then there is no point in continuing.

I do care about the comunity and the subject matter. I wouldn't be here if I didn't. But stoking the flame wars is not my idea of helping the comunity. Nor is being abusive.

I agree to disagree. Perhaps we will come to a mutual agreement someday.

While you both hold very valid morals. The subject at hand is not what I understand. I allready have accepted many forms of higher and lower learning. Be it that somone is being an ass to me, a gentleman, or just simply explaining the truth. Its not me who can't grasp that.... Its many of our other members.

Being as ass in response only helps those who are mature enough to accept it and are willing to learn from it. I've been chewed many of times by people of higher knowledge and I have learned from it. What entails is "spoiled" children , so to speak, that have been feed the titty all thier lives and cant accept a good verbal bashing. They in return feel the need to lash out or reclaim themselves. Its not always an ass to an ass. Its more of an educated ass to an ignorant minor.

Also, if you've ever browsed these forums and have not seen somone display some information so far from the truth that makes your stomach curl; I'd only have to question you being human. Whats so painful is that these people actually believe that what they are saying is true. Its such a shame that there has been so much invalid information spread that a person could come to such conclusion.

Thats where ChrisV's method of active learning comes into hand. While your intentions of "sit down n lets talk repsectively" are good ones. They just don't work half the time. So an affirmative verbal bashing(wich is all that can be achieved through online communication) could be very well what solves the problem. While that does'nt always work, its simply because the person is just to damn ignorant to learn. In that case all hope should be given up (because we are'nt peoples parents now).

The difference between active learning and subtle teaching will always be a large dispute. You n ChrisV may never come to a agreeing terms, but that does'nt mean both forms of teaching can't be practiced....
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Old 11-05-2004, 04:20 AM   #79
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who the fuk said that i was scared off. None of u f---ing bitches can scare me off.

just looking around this dump, i noticed that someone said that its ok for an educated ass to be an ass to an uneducated minor. that is bullshit, like the person who said it and that son of a bitch hobo guy. i doubt ppl would even reproduce with any of you, but if ur kid comes up to u and asks u a stupid question, do u tell them all this crap that goes on here? no. the "elders" are too full of themselves, and they dont want others to learn about cars. they probably are jealous because they cant afford a good car themselves, or they probably cant even refill the gas for their car. is that why ur so sour u old mother fukers???

I am back and aint no one messin wit me.

What, i would like to make an alliance.

and as for u old fags, wash ur mouths out with some soap.
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Old 11-05-2004, 04:25 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiPeRViRuS
who the fuk said that i was scared off. None of u f---ing bitches can scare me off.

just looking around this dump, i noticed that someone said that its ok for an educated ass to be an ass to an uneducated minor. that is bullshit, like the person who said it and that son of a bitch hobo guy. i doubt ppl would even reproduce with any of you, but if ur kid comes up to u and asks u a stupid question, do u tell them all this crap that goes on here? no. the "elders" are too full of themselves, and they dont want others to learn about cars. they probably are jealous because they cant afford a good car themselves, or they probably cant even refill the gas for their car. is that why ur so sour u old mother fukers???

I am back and aint no one messin wit me.

What, i would like to make an alliance.

and as for u old fags, wash ur mouths out with some soap.


Oh no, attack of the bored little kids. "Why so mean?" Ask him.
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Old 11-05-2004, 04:29 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNiPeRViRuS
who the fuk said that i was scared off. None of u f---ing bitches can scare me off.

just looking around this dump, i noticed that someone said that its ok for an educated ass to be an ass to an uneducated minor. that is bullshit, like the person who said it and that son of a bitch hobo guy. i doubt ppl would even reproduce with any of you, but if ur kid comes up to u and asks u a stupid question, do u tell them all this crap that goes on here? no. the "elders" are too full of themselves, and they dont want others to learn about cars. they probably are jealous because they cant afford a good car themselves, or they probably cant even refill the gas for their car. is that why ur so sour u old mother fukers???

I am back and aint no one messin wit me.

What, i would like to make an alliance.

and as for u old fags, wash ur mouths out with some soap.

I think this post deserves many awards. The number one "No one really gives a rats ass" award. Also most immature forum member of the month. Yep....
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Old 11-05-2004, 04:30 AM   #82
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Alright it's like this. Everyone should be treated with respect.

Don't try and justify being an asshole. However, people must also exspect to get back what they dish out.
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Old 11-05-2004, 04:39 AM   #83
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Dsmer, i would shut up, look at that car in ur sig. is it urs. cuz if it is thats pathetic. where did u find? a cereal box? may be 13 but at least i can afford a book more expensive than that peice of shit.
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Old 11-05-2004, 04:42 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by SNiPeRViRuS
Dsmer, i would shut up, look at that car in ur sig. is it urs. cuz if it is thats pathetic. where did u find? a cereal box? may be 13 but at least i can afford a book more expensive than that peice of shit.


Yup. It's his. And it did come out of a cereal box. 8.76 in the quarter. Pathetic isnt it? "Hey shithead, go to hell!"
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Old 11-05-2004, 05:04 AM   #85
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nobody cares about your senseless ramblings you little FAGGOT. you need to go f*ck off and be an asshole some where else...there are too many here. You need to crawl back to the shit-hole under the rock from wence you came, you little punk-ass bitch. Go to an AOL chatroom if you really want to start a goddamn arguement.
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Old 11-05-2004, 02:40 PM   #86
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lol I guess we figured out where "the kid" was

The only thing I can really figure from chrissy and theman's position is they have volunteered to be nice and "respectful" to people who come on here being asses. My question now is, why would they require that of everyone else?
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Old 11-05-2004, 03:08 PM   #87
theman352001
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Originally Posted by JaneiR36
lol I guess we figured out where "the kid" was

The only thing I can really figure from chrissy and theman's position is they have volunteered to be nice and "respectful" to people who come on here being asses. My question now is, why would they require that of everyone else?

I don't "require" anything. I'm just trying to point out that meeting ignorance with being an ass rarely soves anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMer
...So an affirmative verbal bashing(wich is all that can be achieved through online communication) could be very well what solves the problem. ...

Can you show me one example where this has worked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMer
...While that does'nt always work, its simply because the person is just to damn ignorant to learn. ...

Or they have gotten pissed off at being yelled at and called names and they only want to retaliate. A perfect example is SNiPeRViRuS' post.

I would preffer to meet ignorance with facts. And yes, a lot of you do that along with adding in the verbal bashing. But what actually changes the persons mind. Is it the facts or calling them stupid?

"The facts m'am, just the facts." Is there really a need to get hostile? In todays internet smorgasbord of informaiton, it doesn't take much effort to pull the facts and paste a link.

As a thought, perhaps we should have a sticky on how to use search engines. Many of us know how to use them and assume others do too. From my observations, it seems that many don't. Any volunteers?
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Old 11-05-2004, 05:28 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by theman352001
I don't "require" anything. I'm just trying to point out that meeting ignorance with being an ass rarely soves anything.

Now you're splitting hairs. Are you saying you stated your opinion expecting for it to be totally meaningless and ineffective? Let me try this then: what do you "want"? If I'm understanding correctly, for people to be nice to complete asses is still a little much to ask!

By the way, just to clarify, we seem to be crossing topics here. Ignorance, as negative as it sounds, which is simply the lack of knowledge, is typically met with a swift correction and maybe some words comparable to a small electric shock, but resistance to the knowledge being imparted is what's met with an ass kicking.

As for the pointlessness of the back and forth arguments that ensue when the resident ass gets frustrated, it's all in good fun; it's all about who gets bored first
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Old 11-05-2004, 06:46 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by JaneiR36
Now you're splitting hairs. Are you saying you stated your opinion expecting for it to be totally meaningless and ineffective? Let me try this then: what do you "want"? If I'm understanding correctly, for people to be nice to complete asses is still a little much to ask!
It's not so much that I "want" or "require", but I would expect people to read and at least consider my point of view. I am also not asking people to be nice to complete asses. If the person completly ignors the facts then at that point it may be best to just walk away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneiR36
By the way, just to clarify, we seem to be crossing topics here. Ignorance, as negative as it sounds, which is simply the lack of knowledge, is typically met with a swift correction and maybe some words comparable to a small electric shock, but resistance to the knowledge being imparted is what's met with an ass kicking.
Ok, lets look at the resistance to accepting knowledge. This person has gotten the notion from somewhere. Maybe they read it. Maybe from their father or friend, or somebody they have a personal relationship to. Now they regurgitate the information and have some unkown person on a forum say they, and thus their source, is wrong or misinformed. Most time this does not have any documentation to back it up. Now they have the choice of who to believe. And I'm sorry but a lot of times there is hostility already imparted into telling the person they are wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneiR36
As for the pointlessness of the back and forth arguments that ensue when the resident ass gets frustrated, it's all in good fun; it's all about who gets bored first
And that goes back to chrissy's statement. It's like a buch of children and not a bunch of adults and young adults having a discussion.

Last edited by theman352001 : 11-05-2004 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 11-05-2004, 09:33 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by theman352001
If the person completly ignors the facts then at that point it may be best to just walk away.

Some of the people with plenty of legit car knowledge might feel that if they leave the discussion without a rebuttal, other readers might see the last word and take it as fact. They do, afterall, have their trusted sources (Source: You.)

Quote:
And that goes back to chrissy's statement. It's like a buch of children and not a bunch of adults and young adults haveing a discussion.

Last I checked, a request to shut up wasn't a conversation nor was it an invitation for one ....(God that sounds immature....)

By explaining the possible source of resistance, though, you seem to display a certain level of sensitivity, which is good. However, whether you admit it or not, you are requesting traits above and beyond basic courtesy of certain members of this group who barely owe "the asses" that much.
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