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Old 10-20-2004, 07:48 PM   #1
zook
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Whats with the stock V8.It is so weak.

I am from Lithuania,and I dont understand,why thees huge engines is so weak.
Europeen cars are so much better.
Like this one.
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Old 10-20-2004, 11:42 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zook
I am from Lithuania,and I dont understand,why thees huge engines is so weak.
Europeen cars are so much better.
Like this one.
What is your point... assuming you have a point? The one on the top of your head doesn't count.
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Old 10-21-2004, 01:40 PM   #3
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I am saying that American cars have huge engines,but they have no power,no torgue.That mercedes has 320hp from stock 5liter engine.I hate civic,but what do I have to think,when 1.6 civic beats camaro 5.0.
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Old 10-24-2004, 07:09 AM   #4
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the compasion

you said a civic beating a 5.0 camero its because a stock camero is underpowered by the 5.0 the 5.7 or 350 camero is equal to the 5.0 stang and a gt stang is the same as a ls1 camero or a iroc
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Old 10-24-2004, 09:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zook
I am saying that American cars have huge engines,but they have no power,no torgue.That mercedes has 320hp from stock 5liter engine.I hate civic,but what do I have to think,when 1.6 civic beats camaro 5.0.
I still don't follow your point. Your 320 hp Mercedes (your supplied numbers) produces 64 hp per liter. The first current near 5 liter car I thought of was a Mustang which produces 305 hp from 4.6 liters. If you do the math that's 66.3 hp per liter, more power per liter than your quoted Mercedes. So once again, what's your point? I think it's time to stop watching your DVD of the Fast and the F*cked-up and join the real world.
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Old 10-25-2004, 02:54 PM   #6
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I hate that film.First of all,that mercedes is 94 year production,second it is a limousine.You like math,here you are some numbers.Enjoy...
AUDI: A4:2,4-170ps;3,0-220ps;2,5TDi-163ps;
A6:2,4-177ps;3,2-255ps;4,2-335ps;2,0TDi-140ps;3,0TDi-225ps;
A8:3,0-220ps;3,0TDi-233ps;3,7-280ps;4,2-335ps;4,0TDi-275ps;
L6,0-450ps.
BMWbmw I) 1,6-115ps;1,8-129ps;2,0-150ps;
(bmw 3)1,8-143ps;2,5-192ps;2,0td-150ps;3,0-231ps;3,0d-204ps.
(bmw 5)2,0-170ps;2,5-192ps;3,0-231ps;4,5-333ps;3,5d-272ps.
(bmw 7)3,0-231ps;3,5-272ps;4,5-333ps;6,0-445ps;3,0d-218ps;
4,0d-258ps.
Like you see there is no sport car in this list,like mustang,but all this cars have more power per liter than mustang.But!!! there is PORSHE,BMW 6,JAGUAR XK...

JAGUAR,MERCEDES-BENZ,OPEL,PEUGEOT,VOLKSWAGEN allsou similar.
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Old 10-25-2004, 06:02 PM   #7
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a good old v8 if nothing else has the potental for high horsepower for less money....lets see your 1.8L V-tec crank 300 horsepower with out spending 3 grand if i remember correctly my friends 95 firebird firehawk has 300hp written right on the hood....and then lets see if that turbo u just installed will effect the reliability of the "super reliable" honda. all of u guys that talk down to V8 engines obviously have no idea what u are talking about.
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Old 10-25-2004, 06:24 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zook
Like you see there is no sport car in this list,like mustang,but all this cars have more power per liter than mustang.But!!! there is PORSHE,BMW 6,JAGUAR XK...

JAGUAR,MERCEDES-BENZ,OPEL,PEUGEOT,VOLKSWAGEN allsou similar.

A couple things you are missing out on, zook...

One, an American V8 is tuned for longetivity and reliable, inexpensive power. Notice how much American V8 cars cost in relation to the European V8s. If you spend a couple grand on an American V8, you end up with considerably more power than those Europeans, and the total cost is STILL vastly less. American manufacturers don't try to get the maximum power from their production engines, and leave that up to the aftermarket. its all about power per dollar, not power per liter.

Which brings us to the second point: hp per liter is unimportant in any situation OTHER than racing classes where displacemetn is limited (like, say F1 or GTU), and in countries where taxation is based on engine displacement, and larger engines are heavily taxed. American street cars have neither of those restrictions. So for the same price point, you can get more torque, a flatter torque curve, more reliability out of a larger displacement engine that is not highly tuned at all.

An example is a stock Mustang 5 liter. Only 215 hp from the small, inexpensive, but large displacement engine in stock form. There are few engines at it's price point that match it. But it's cheap and easy to tune it to 300-350 hp at the wheels, and with bolt on turbos and supercharger kits, relatively inexpensive to get to 500+ hp from 5 liters. Mildly modded, street legal Mustangs are running 10 second quarter miles. Try that in your Euro cars. heavily modded emissions legal Mustangs are running 8 second quarter miles. Again, no Euro car can match that, even at twice the cost. Same thing happens with GM V8s.

Again, that's the key: power per dollar. While teh hp/liter may not be as spectacular as you'd like, you cannot deny that a car like the Corvette is plenty fast for it's price. And it doesn't take much to make it faster, becaeu there is so much left in the engine. It isn't already at it's limits in stock form in any way.
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Old 10-25-2004, 08:32 PM   #9
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Thansk for a good answer I see jou understand,what I wanted to say.
Well,I never liked drag racing.I prefer real driving plesure,WRC(World Rally Champion) or "žiedinės lenktynės" (I dont now how to translate),just look at the pictures.You cannot deny,that any wreal drag racing car will be going to be beated by this (modificated) red Lada, on the wreal racing track.
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Old 10-25-2004, 10:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zook
Thansk for a good answer I see jou understand,what I wanted to say.
Well,I never liked drag racing.I prefer real driving plesure,WRC(World Rally Champion) or "žiedinės lenktynės" (I dont now how to translate),just look at the pictures.You cannot deny,that any wreal drag racing car will be going to be beated by this (modificated) red Lada, on the wreal racing track.
Ya see zook, you cannot post with your opinions flaring... if you do that you will find that in the end vwhobo is right and you look like a dumbass. You must try to specify more, and realize that your opinions, about the "race track" idea, not really flow into your posts, other wise you will be not using this forum as a place to learn but as a place to put your opinions down discrediting all others. You need to learn that everyone's idea of a "real race track" is different, and in the real world IS different due to different demands of the sport.
Just keep that in mind...

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Old 10-25-2004, 11:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zook
Thansk for a good answer I see jou understand,what I wanted to say.
Well,I never liked drag racing.I prefer real driving plesure,WRC(World Rally Champion) or "žiedinės lenktynės" (I dont now how to translate),just look at the pictures.You cannot deny,that any wreal drag racing car will be going to be beated by this (modificated) red Lada, on the wreal racing track.

Here's another problem, you are assuming that all American engines are good for is drag racing. And that's simply NOT true. WRC cars are regulated, but the fact remains, they are relatively heavy sedans, and the only reason they are agile is they are being tossed around on the dirt by some of the best drivers on the planet, not because they have great driving "feel."


What you pictured is simply road racing. THere are hundreds of variations on it, in many classes, from formula cars like F1 to true sports cars, to sedans, and in numerous levels of preparation, from nearly stock to tube frame, fiberglass bodied cars that only look like the street cars they are supposed to represent.

But American V8s do well at that sort of racing, too.





I put a 5 liter V8 into my slalom racing RX7. Does this look like it has a problem with going around gorners or being agile? it pulled over 1G laterally on street tires...

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/cvetters3/rex1.MPG
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Old 10-25-2004, 11:25 PM   #12
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Sweet car Chris!
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Old 10-26-2004, 08:32 AM   #13
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Than try to explain this,Why does stock doge viper is so weak.8liters and only teeny weeni 450hp.Ore perhaps itsa cheap car too...And why american cars is so unsafe,(if you insist that american cars is safe to drive just like europeens than you all)Not only americans can do super tuning for the cars.Cars that do not need any ****ing american tooning sometimes cost the same that american tooned mustang with turbo,NOS (NOS just for the loosers),and other rubbish.
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Old 10-26-2004, 01:22 PM   #14
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[quote=ChrisV]Here's another problem, you are assuming that all American engines are good for is drag racing. And that's simply NOT true. WRC cars are regulated, but the fact remains, they are relatively heavy sedans, and the only reason they are agile is they are being tossed around on the dirt by some of the best drivers on the planet, not because they have great driving "feel."

You have a problem with your self,if you think that WRC cars is a heavy sedans.
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Old 10-26-2004, 04:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zook
Than try to explain this,Why does stock doge viper is so weak.8liters and only teeny weeni 450hp. Ore perhaps itsa cheap car too

The Viper has 450-500 hp. But it makes more torque at IDLE than a Ferrari F360 does at PEAK. And the torque curve is flatter and wider. You really need to figure that out and why it's important. I'm starting to get tired of your crap. You don't want to learn anything, you simply want to argue, but you are nearly COMPLETELY ignorant.


Quote:
...And why american cars is so unsafe,(if you insist that american cars is safe to drive just like europeens than

Now you're just being stupid. I no longer care about your feelings, you're a moron. Go back to Europe and shut the fcuk up until you actually are capable of learning something. You're an elitist, opinionated, ignorant little shit, and at this point you've proven that you aren't here to learn, but to just be an insulting little assclown.

Millions upon millions of Americans prove every year that their cars aren't unsafe. I will insist it because you have no facts to back up your retarded accusations. I've never been unsafe in any of my American cars. And I've never been MORE safe in any of my European cars. (and I've had over 50 different European cars in the last 25 years...). But what this has to do with American V8s is a mystery. Apparently you can't find good enough reasons to insult the engines, now you have to start making things up and being insulting about everything because I refuse to kneel down and worship at the altar of European Elitism.

Grow up, moron.

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Not only americans can do super tuning for the cars. Cars that do not need any ****ing american tooning sometimes cost the same that american tooned mustang with turbo,NOS (NOS just for the loosers),and other rubbish.

Talk about rubbish. If you're going to argue in English, at least learn how to use it effectively. You have no idea of costs, and have nothing but attitude to back up your opinions. You're not very well rounded at all, and you apparently would rather be a narrowminded idiot than actually learn something new.

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You have a problem with your self,if you think that WRC cars is a heavy sedans.

I said relatively heavy sedans. I realize English is your second language, but if you're going to argue, you at least need to know what you're arguing about. Look at my signature. That's a European sports car. And WRC cars are heavier. I consider a light car to be in the 2000 lb (950 kg) range or less. Most true sports cars have been that light. Sedans like the WRC cars are heavier, and are NOT agile in comparison. Period. How many cars have you driven? have you ever driven an AWD sedan? Have you driven lightweight sports cars like the one in my signature? How long ahve you been racing cars/ Or are you merely going from what you THINK it must be like? I've been racing sports cars for over 2 decades. Yes, over 20 YEARS. If you want to argue with me, you'll LOSE if all you have is theory and opinion.

The Mitsubishi Evo series are approx. 3000 lbs (1350 kg) in race form. The Subarus match that. Both cars are 50% heavier than my street sports car. they are 50% heavier than my old RX3 and BMW 2002 Ti. They are twice as heavy as my old CRX. they are the SAME weight as my V8 Mustang, and a tiny bit heavier than my V8 RX7 (as seen in my other post). My non-race car, V8 powered Mercury Comet convertible weighs less than those WRC cars. WRC cars are, by regulation, heavier than the old Group B rallye cars, which had a minimum legal weight of 970 kg (2100 lbs).

Yes, in race car context, WRC cars are relatively heavy sedans, and about the same weight as quite a few V8 powered American cars. And it takes stupid amounts of money to make those WRC cars do what they do. Thay are among my favorite cars, and the drivers are the best in the world. But that has zero to do with your argument about V8s.

You really need to stop arguing, and start learning.
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