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Old 10-29-2004, 03:07 AM   #16
DSMer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevypwr6
good for you
Right Pondscum. Did'nt I tell you don't voice your opinions. We've allready established that you don't know anything about cars. So after you aquire some more knowledge you may then, and only then, proceed to have your replys taken for more than just chicken sratch.
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Old 10-29-2004, 03:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMer
Right Pondscum. Did'nt I tell you don't voice your opinions. We've allready established that you don't know anything about cars. So after you aquire some more knowledge you may then, and only then, proceed to have your replys taken for more than just chicken sratch.


are you done yet? god i hope so.
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Old 10-29-2004, 04:44 PM   #18
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hey now i did clearify the turbo thing up ok.. now you cant tell me what i said was nonsense and bullshit because when it comes to pullys turbos and supercharges i know i bit.. but again i dont know everything about them
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Old 02-22-2005, 10:36 PM   #19
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Help

Is a twin screw or roots supercharger go directly to the cylinders without the intake manifold. Is the supercharger before or after the throttle body??
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Old 02-22-2005, 11:10 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by CarEXPERT
Is a twin screw or roots supercharger go directly to the cylinders without the intake manifold. Is the supercharger before or after the throttle body??

No, all there is an intake manifold. It depends on what kind of supercharger you're speaking of. Centrifugals(the ones that resemble belt driven turbos) are located before the TB. Wheras Roots or Twin Screw(the ones that are mounted on the top of the intake manifold) are located after the TB.
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Old 02-22-2005, 11:12 PM   #21
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Oh. My. God.

An internal combustion engine is an air pump. Burning an air fuel mixture in the proper ratio creates power. The more air and fuel you can burn, the more power you make. The amount of air an engine moves is determined by displacement and ability to get that air in and out of the engine.

Supercharging is the act of compressing outside air and delivering that compressed air to the engine. If you compress the air coming into the engine to, say, twice the density, then the engine can make twice the power it would with ambient air pressures.

The mechanical devices that compress the air before delivering it to the engine are called superchargers. ALL of them.

Thus all turbochargers are superchargers, but not all superchargers are turbochargers (kind of like how all oaks are trees, but not all trees are oaks...). Turbos are particular types of superchargers that use the energy in the engine's exhaust to spin the compressor. Any of the superchargers that use a belt or gears to drive the compressor are simply called superchargers, even though there are numerous types (Roots, Latham, centrifugal, etc).

Both types have advantages and disadvantages, of course. Turbochargers use less engine power to run, but there is always a small amount of time between teh time you add throttle, and the engine starts to speed up, spinning up the impeller that drives the compressor and it starts to deliver boost. Superchargers, being driven directly off the engine, use some power to run, but start to deliver boost as soon as you give it throttle.

Search this subject, as there's more to it on this site, as well as howstuffworks.com
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Old 02-22-2005, 11:24 PM   #22
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I know how they work but I just dontknow where they are. A roots or twin screw goes after the TB ok but Where is the intake manifold. On superchargers there is the supercharger and then 4 ports that go to the engine head. With a supercharger does anything changes, like air intake, sensors, cuz the supercharger is big.
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Old 02-23-2005, 05:47 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarEXPERT
I know how they work but I just dontknow where they are. A roots or twin screw goes after the TB ok but Where is the intake manifold. On superchargers there is the supercharger and then 4 ports that go to the engine head. With a supercharger does anything changes, like air intake, sensors, cuz the supercharger is big.

The intake manifold is teh part that sits between the head(s) and the supercharger. Here's an example from a V8 car:



This is the intake manifold. the supercharger (in this case a Roots type) bolts on top of it, and the injection or carbs sit on top of that. On many of the factory setups, the injection is off the back of teh supercharger, to keep the overall profile low. here's an example of that, with the manifold being the lowest part of teh supercharger setup, the actual supercharger being the ribbed case, and the TB off the rear of the supercharger (the part opposite the front pulley, the front being to your left in this picture):



Air goes in the air cleaner, through the TB, into the supercharger, then into the engine. Simple, really. If it were on a 4 cyl car, then the intal manifold would look slightly different. Something like this:



The black tubular structures are the individual runners of the intake manifold.

Now, to move on to a differnt setup. This is a Paxton brand centrifugal supercharger. Still belt driven, but it looks a lot like a turbo.



The supercharger is that unit at the front of the engine, to YOUR right in this view. At the far right is the air cleaner. The air goes into the air cleaner, through the supercharger, then on to an intercooler (not all centrifugal superchargers use an intercooler, but they CAN), and then up to the TB (center of the image) then into the intake manifold (directly behind the TB: the black individual runners shown) and then into the engine. This is similar to a turbocharger layout, except that the turbo is not belt driven, but sits on a custom exhaust manifold, to use the energy in the exhaust to drive it.
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Old 02-23-2005, 11:59 PM   #24
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ChrisV, in a roots or twin screw they look pretty much the same right?

On your picture of the roots s/c, the air goes through the opposite of the s/c pulley which is the throttle body and then goes through the s/c and the air goes down to the intake manifold? In a V8 or V6 I can understand but what about in a 4 cylinder, like in a honda?

Thanks ChrisV
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Old 02-24-2005, 12:32 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarEXPERT
ChrisV, in a roots or twin screw they look pretty much the same right?

On your picture of the roots s/c, the air goes through the opposite of the s/c pulley which is the throttle body and then goes through the s/c and the air goes down to the intake manifold? In a V8 or V6 I can understand but what about in a 4 cylinder, like in a honda?

Thanks ChrisV

He allready showed you what a Roots/Screw supercharger looks like on a 4cylinder engine. Your problem is that you don't read. There is no way you could have missed this element of his guide. It has a friggen picture attached



Just like on most other applications. The supercharger is mounted to the Intake as pictured here. The actual supercharger is the cylindrical unit at the top of the picture. It has a pulley sticking out of it to the left. Thats is the supercharger. To the right of the unit and the very top is where the throttle body would be located. There is an opening to allow air into the entire system. The black tubular structures running down are the intake runners. They will bolt directly to the cylinder heads.

The air comes through the air cleaner, through the throttlebody, through the supercharger, down the intake runners, and into the engine.
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Old 02-24-2005, 12:42 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by DSMer
He allready showed you what a Roots/Screw supercharger looks like on a 4cylinder engine. Your problem is that you don't read. There is no way you could have missed this element of his guide. It has a friggen picture attached



Just like on most other applications. The supercharger is mounted to the Intake as pictured here. The actual supercharger is the cylindrical unit at the top of the picture. It has a pulley sticking out of it to the left. Thats is the supercharger. To the right of the unit and the very top is where the throttle body would be located. There is an opening to allow air into the entire system. The black tubular structures running down are the intake runners. They will bolt directly to the cylinder heads.

The air comes through the air cleaner, through the throttlebody, through the supercharger, down the intake runners, and into the engine.

DSMer I read about that part and already saw the picture but it looked kinda weird. DSMer, so does the roots s/c compress air by pushing it into the intake manifold.
Im not sure what compression ratio is but is it the ratio when the air pressure is just going into the cylinder to the pressure of when the piston moves up and compress it? I dont know if its right or wrong so please clarify it for me DSMer..
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Old 02-24-2005, 12:57 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarEXPERT
DSMer I read about that part and already saw the picture but it looked kinda weird. DSMer, so does the roots s/c compress air by pushing it into the intake manifold.


All superchargers and turbochargers compress air AND THEN push it into the intake manifold. That's the point. it's conmpressed IN the supercharger or turbocharger, not in the intake manifold (kind of like how a shop air compressor compresses air IN the motor part on top, then STORES it in the tank and is USED in the hose to the air tool)

Quote:
Im not sure what compression ratio is but is it the ratio when the air pressure is just going into the cylinder to the pressure of when the piston moves up and compress it? I dont know if its right or wrong so please clarify it for me DSMer..

The compression ratio is the ratio of the volume of the cylinder at the bottom of the piston's stroke to the volume of the cylinder when the piston is at the top of it's stroke. in a 9.0:1 compression ratio, the volume of the cylinder is 9 times as small when the piston is at the top of it's stroke (and thus any air brought into the cylinder is compressed to 9 times it's natural density).
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Old 02-24-2005, 01:14 AM   #28
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[quote=ChrisV]All superchargers and turbochargers compress air AND THEN push it into the intake manifold. That's the point. it's conmpressed IN the supercharger or turbocharger, not in the intake manifold (kind of like how a shop air compressor compresses air IN the motor part on top, then STORES it in the tank and is USED in the hose to the air tool)QUOTE]

ChrisV I 99 percent sure your wrong on this. the ROOTS s/c doesnt compress air IN the s/c. It pushes the intake air to the manifold which compreses it. That is why the roots gets the hottest air compared to the other superchargers. The twin screw is the one that compresses air IN the S/C because the screws spin inward to compress it while a roots spin ******d to push.

Thanks, that cleared up the compression ratio issue
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Old 02-24-2005, 01:31 AM   #29
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Remember this for posterity:

CR = (swept vol. + clearance vol.)/ clearance vol.
i.e. = (swept vol./clearance vol.) +1

The rest of the thread isn't worth correcting.
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Old 02-24-2005, 01:39 AM   #30
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Remember this for posterity:

CR = (swept vol. + clearance vol.)/ clearance vol.
i.e. = (swept vol./clearance vol.) +1

The rest of the thread isn't worth correcting.

Are you sure. I thought compression ratio was like,
cylinder head volumn + gasket volum + swept volumn DIVIDED by something elese I cant remember.
I remember it was more that that to get CR.

Walley can you please correct one thing that was wrong that I said so I know that im wrong.
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