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View Poll Results: What would you do?
Give up 3 33.33%
Go mad like I have 2 22.22%
Give it a shot 4 44.44%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-21-2004, 04:20 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi.alt.perform
some forged pistons have different expansion properties than others, the chaep ones tend to do this really bad, take in consideration it is an old motor with ring and wall wear. No compression means no start. Heat makes it start???? why ? and why are you guys so freakin rude on this site? IOt was a take a shot poll, everything has been checked? man, i hope you and dodge can get some manners soon, i assume the obvious has been checked. This is not obvious and does make sense.k.
College boy, let me ask you a question. If he dumps hot water on the engine, how much do you think it raises the core temperature and therefore the piston temp. Not very damn much.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hi.alt.perform
I feel terrible, this thread is for advice not us arguing amongst ourselves. Id send another private but they would show it anyways. So ill argue here. I sent a mess. to vw, forged pistons expand and contract a lot. The cheaper forged pistons do more of this. On an old motor with ring and wall wear, compression may be an issue. Insufficient compression=no start. I assume you really have replaced everything except the short block....hummm? By-the-way although nothing could be ruled out, why dont you guys explain why a relay will not work until the car is started?? And after its warmed up it works fine? Maybe, and i hope so, easy fix. But i would have to assume even the most back yard mechanic has checked fuel pressure and spark when it still doesnt start. Making sense yet? Oh, and ether starts it, only way i know to get a low compression motor to start or even try to run.
I never diagnosed or said anything about a relay. You'll have to ask someone else about that. Unlike you, I read this thread a few hours ago and intend to sleep on it instead of making rash, unfounded and unthoughtful recommendations. Slowing down makes you sound so much smarter. Try it sometime.
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Old 11-21-2004, 04:25 AM   #17
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Clarification

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Originally Posted by DodgeRida67
As I said, it is not very likely. Why won't it work UNTIL it's started? I guess you didn't stop to think it works and THEN it starts.


BUT, as I said, several times, it is not very likely, I just want it ruled out of the equation.


Yeah, i know you said it was unlikely, like a compression issue. The relay fires for several seconds when you turn the key on. Then it stops untill you begin cranking the motor. during cranking it again turns on and the injector fires. At that point it will remain on untill the car is shut off. I was asking why it wouldnt work at all until the motor is actually running? There may be a reason, who knows? I hope that clears that up.
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Old 11-21-2004, 04:25 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi.alt.perform
ok, better yet, let it get cold, take out the plugs, pour in some oil, then reinstall them and try to start it. Thats free and easy.


Tell me something. What does pouring oil in there actually diagnose? Do you even know?
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Old 11-21-2004, 04:30 AM   #19
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I agree

[quote=vwhobo]College boy, let me ask you a question. If he dumps hot water on the engine, how much do you think it raises the core temperature and therefore the piston temp. Not very damn much.



I agree, hot water wouldnt do much, if anything. Can we rule out possibilities, or do we have to hit this thing on the first try? Revise your threads, you sound like an moron yourself...k. Something helpful may be to say, you know what, i dont think the compression is a possibility. Try that next time. Although, i love the competitve spirit.
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Old 11-21-2004, 04:33 AM   #20
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oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeRida67
Tell me something. What does pouring oil in there actually diagnose? Do you even know?


It would suggest a piston to wall clerance issue. Too much clearance can somewhat be resolved by using a thick oil to seal that clearnce. Usually would suggest bad rings, oh and forged pistons heat up quick and expand quick, thats why i thought once the car had started those clearance issues may be resolved.
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Old 11-21-2004, 06:33 AM   #21
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Was not trying to argue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi.alt.perform
I feel terrible, this thread is for advice not us arguing amongst ourselves. Id send another private but they would show it anyways. So ill argue here. I sent a mess. to vw, forged pistons expand and contract a lot. The cheaper forged pistons do more of this. On an old motor with ring and wall wear, compression may be an issue. Insufficient compression=no start. I assume you really have replaced everything except the short block....hummm? By-the-way although nothing could be ruled out, why dont you guys explain why a relay will not work until the car is started?? And after its warmed up it works fine? Maybe, and i hope so, easy fix. But i would have to assume even the most back yard mechanic has checked fuel pressure and spark when it still doesnt start. Making sense yet? Oh, and ether starts it, only way i know to get a low compression motor to start or even try to run.

Sorry...was not trying to argue...just trying to chat about it- Like I said, I am no car genious and am just trying to make sure I understand what is being said to me. If it helps, I can post any additional info anyone wants on the car. It is hard to list everything and still try and make the post meaningful...So if you want to know something specific, ask me and I can do my homework on it. I can give you info, MPEG videos, pics or whatever. So for example, if anyone wanted to watch a video of the car try and start I would be more than happy to tape it and post it on the site I made. So far it has rained the entire day and I havn't got much done. I did update a few pics on the website though.
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Old 11-21-2004, 07:15 AM   #22
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Post This also might help

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi.alt.perform
It would suggest a piston to wall clerance issue. Too much clearance can somewhat be resolved by using a thick oil to seal that clearnce. Usually would suggest bad rings, oh and forged pistons heat up quick and expand quick, thats why i thought once the car had started those clearance issues may be resolved.

This reply is to noone in specific. There are a few small things I forgot to mention but might help some. 1-Regardless of how cold it is, the car "wants" to start the very first crank. I can hear the exhaust rumble like it has started and then apon the second crank it is PURE crank and the engine will not even think about "wanting" to start again. This is where I have to do either the ether, hot water, or cranking all day untill it finally, finally starts. And here is another small detail. The cranking method (where I just keep cranking it untill it starts) is very gradual. About 10 cranks in the egine starts to run at very low RPM but needs assitance of the starter motor by me continuing to crank to run. The engine starts taking over more and more until finally, VROOOMM it starts up like a new car and from that exact point on runs 100% beutifully. From this point there is not so much as a stuter in the engine, acceleration seems perfect and has absolutely no issue. The ONLY issue it has (and an odd one) is it starts to really act up around a quarter of a tank (and really not a second before). It starts loosing acceleration completely on hills and sometimes stalls. In order for me to get the car started again, rather than using ether, I have to crank a few times. THIS WILL ONLY work on a level surface. One time I forgot to get gas and stalled at 1/4 tank. I leveled the car and was able to get another 80 miles out of it on the Thruway which is all flat. The second a hill came on the thruway again, the car would loose acceleration and stall again. I finally got it to a gas station and filled it up. Once filled it had absolutely no problem at all. At first I thought the gas must really be empty at 1/4 full on the guage, but that really wouldnt explain the extra 80 miles I got out of the tank unless my car also runs on nitrogen and oxygen, which I dont believe it does....Also note, the parts replaced were mostly used (but "working"). If anything makes you more than enough sure it is probably a part that I already changed, let me know and I will double check that part. Tomorrow I am having a ThanksGiving dinner in Watertown with my folks and will be back at six. If it is not raining, I am going to try everything mentioned so far. I will probably start with adding some oil in the spark plug holes and start again. Then go on to test compression and anything else anyone posts between now and 6:00 tomorrow. I try and keep pics updated of everything I do on the Nissan website I mentioned earlier.
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Old 11-21-2004, 02:30 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maiolo99
This reply is to noone in specific. There are a few small things I forgot to mention but might help some. 1-Regardless of how cold it is, the car "wants" to start the very first crank. I can hear the exhaust rumble like it has started and then apon the second crank it is PURE crank and the engine will not even think about "wanting" to start again. This is where I have to do either the ether, hot water, or cranking all day untill it finally, finally starts. And here is another small detail. The cranking method (where I just keep cranking it untill it starts) is very gradual. About 10 cranks in the egine starts to run at very low RPM but needs assitance of the starter motor by me continuing to crank to run. The engine starts taking over more and more until finally, VROOOMM it starts up like a new car and from that exact point on runs 100% beutifully. From this point there is not so much as a stuter in the engine, acceleration seems perfect and has absolutely no issue. The ONLY issue it has (and an odd one) is it starts to really act up around a quarter of a tank (and really not a second before). It starts loosing acceleration completely on hills and sometimes stalls. In order for me to get the car started again, rather than using ether, I have to crank a few times. THIS WILL ONLY work on a level surface. One time I forgot to get gas and stalled at 1/4 tank. I leveled the car and was able to get another 80 miles out of it on the Thruway which is all flat. The second a hill came on the thruway again, the car would loose acceleration and stall again. I finally got it to a gas station and filled it up. Once filled it had absolutely no problem at all. At first I thought the gas must really be empty at 1/4 full on the guage, but that really wouldnt explain the extra 80 miles I got out of the tank unless my car also runs on nitrogen and oxygen, which I dont believe it does....Also note, the parts replaced were mostly used (but "working"). If anything makes you more than enough sure it is probably a part that I already changed, let me know and I will double check that part. Tomorrow I am having a ThanksGiving dinner in Watertown with my folks and will be back at six. If it is not raining, I am going to try everything mentioned so far. I will probably start with adding some oil in the spark plug holes and start again. Then go on to test compression and anything else anyone posts between now and 6:00 tomorrow. I try and keep pics updated of everything I do on the Nissan website I mentioned earlier.


That changes alot. Those details would have been extremely helpful on your first post. The more you say the more it narrows it down to fuel as I suspected. Was the fuel pump replaced once? I remember you saying something about a parts car, so was the fuel pump new or used? I don't know for sure, but it sounds a good bit like a fuel pump. Last night I got to thinking alot about that pump, and thought about telling you to test fuel flow and pressure at the engine. I believe somehow, someway, you just arent getting the fuel you need efficiently.
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Old 11-21-2004, 02:43 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi.alt.perform
It would suggest a piston to wall clerance issue. Too much clearance can somewhat be resolved by using a thick oil to seal that clearnce. Usually would suggest bad rings, oh and forged pistons heat up quick and expand quick, thats why i thought once the car had started those clearance issues may be resolved.

Didn't think so.

There you go.

You are really screw up on this piston expantion crap. Really, go do some reading on it. It's very intresting how it really works.
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Old 11-21-2004, 06:01 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by DodgeRida67
Didn't think so.

There you go.

You are really screw up on this piston expantion crap. Really, go do some reading on it. It's very intresting how it really works.

Again i would have to say a relay would be equally as far fetched. Its fun to talk about possibilities. Unless the car is in front of you, you can't hit everything perfect. So dodge, get off hobos dick and actually try to help. Has anyone tested the fuel pressure on this motor? If its been to several mechanics i could only assume they did that much, but you never know. Still try the oil because you may be getting too much fuel or not enough. Rememeber what i said about the cyliders washing down? This is a fact and if the car immediately floods (the car will add more fuel when the car is cold to react with the denser air) it will wash down the walls and still be a compression issue. These are suggestions, almost no one has the right answers over a computer. Good luck working on it, i hope something turns up!
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Old 11-21-2004, 06:08 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi.alt.perform
Again i would have to say a relay would be equally as far fetched. Its fun to talk about possibilities. Unless the car is in front of you, you can't hit everything perfect. So dodge, get off hobos dick and actually try to help. Has anyone tested the fuel pressure on this motor? If its been to several mechanics i could only assume they did that much, but you never know. Still try the oil because you may be getting too much fuel or not enough. Rememeber what i said about the cyliders washing down? This is a fact and if the car immediately floods (the car will add more fuel when the car is cold to react with the denser air) it will wash down the walls and still be a compression issue. These are suggestions, almost no one has the right answers over a computer. Good luck working on it, i hope something turns up!
It makes me very uncomfortable that you have such a strong preoccupation with my dick. Instead of spreading your special brand of BS all over this forum and talking about my anatomy, why don't you go find someplace where you are more at home. I was thinking www.wannabeswholoveotherguyspenises.com . Yeah, that's the ticket.
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Old 11-22-2004, 02:04 AM   #27
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hi.alt.perform, YOU are the biggest idiot I've ever seen on these forums. What makes you such an idiot is not only posting obviously way off track information that the average born blind/deaf person would know is BS, but the fact that you keep at it. You keep saying stupid things, not knowing what the hell you are talking about, and stick to that BS like it's fact. When you are wrong, admit it and move on. That's how you learn. If you don't do that, you'll be a dumbass forever. I hate people like you.

I was really wanting to help this guy, but you have to come along and f*ck it up. Stupid S.O.B.

Last edited by DodgeRida67 : 11-22-2004 at 02:07 AM.
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Old 11-22-2004, 02:22 AM   #28
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Lightbulb The fuel pump is new

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Originally Posted by DodgeRida67
That changes alot. Those details would have been extremely helpful on your first post. The more you say the more it narrows it down to fuel as I suspected. Was the fuel pump replaced once? I remember you saying something about a parts car, so was the fuel pump new or used? I don't know for sure, but it sounds a good bit like a fuel pump. Last night I got to thinking alot about that pump, and thought about telling you to test fuel flow and pressure at the engine. I believe somehow, someway, you just arent getting the fuel you need efficiently.

The fuel pump was replaced NEW August 2003. I bought the car in April and could not be certain it is/is not the fuel pump because April through August it never really got too below 50 F to know whether or not the Fuel Pump gave the problem. The reason the fuel pump was replaced is because the car was stalling around turns, NOT because of the issue of not starting in the cold. To basically sum up what I am saying, I cannot say YES or NO to a fuel pump problem (although it was new) because I never had any fuel pump but the current one since it has been below 50 F. Still think it is the Fuel Pump? Let me know- I have the spare from the scrap nissan if you are still mostly certain this is part of the problem.
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Old 11-22-2004, 02:25 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maiolo99
The fuel pump was replaced NEW August 2003. I bought the car in April and could not be certain it is/is not the fuel pump because April through August it never really got too below 50 F to know whether or not the Fuel Pump gave the problem. The reason the fuel pump was replaced is because the car was stalling around turns, NOT because of the issue of not starting in the cold. To basically sum up what I am saying, I cannot say YES or NO to a fuel pump problem (although it was new) because I never had any fuel pump but the current one since it has been below 50 F. Still think it is the Fuel Pump? Let me know- I have the spare from the scrap nissan if you are still mostly certain this is part of the problem.


Could be... could not be. Like I said before, fuel flow and pressure should be checked at engine. Then you will be able to rule out fuel pump, or come closer to it. Depending on the outcome of the test. Really important test.
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Old 11-22-2004, 03:04 AM   #30
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Arrow Wow...Check this out..

Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeRida67
Could be... could not be. Like I said before, fuel flow and pressure should be checked at engine. Then you will be able to rule out fuel pump, or come closer to it. Depending on the outcome of the test. Really important test.

I was brosing the ARRC (Auto Repair Reference Center) and got curious and checked out the Service Bulletins/Recalls. You need a subscription to the site so I pulled the PDF's off and stuck them on my site that got my attention. Here are the URL's:

http://www.nissan.hopto.org/ColdTips.pdf and http://www.nissan.hopto.org/NoColdStart.pdf

The second one (NoColdStart.pdf) is more of a recall in my mind than the first (though I do not believe officially) and really seems to head me in the right direction. It speaks of a a 91-94 GA16 Engine (mine) not starting at High Altitudes (above 5000 Feet) with the combo of cold temperature. It says it is due to too rich a mixture and a faulty countermeasure (C/M) altitude switch. I know I am not above 5000 Feet (there may have been a glacier slide last night I didnt see), however, the First PDF (ColdTips.pdf) almost seems to strike the nail on the head with exactly what it takes to start my car with the "Cranking" method I talked about earlier.

I will leave the judgement up to you guys, but could this be it or am I making crazy assumptions. Check out both PDF's. If you do not have a PDF reader, I'm sure you can pull this info up on any recall website for the 1992 Nissan Sentra XE GA16 1.6L Engine. If you do think this is it, can I use any of the 1994 Nissan Sentra parts as a sub for buying this "kit" to fix it? I would have no idea where to begin with this unless I bough the "kit" which probably cost a small fortune direct from Nissan.
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