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Old 11-19-2003, 03:01 AM   #31
BavarianWheels
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Originally Posted by slavboy1
I'm a some what frequent reader of this forum and I know i'm probably going to be very unpopular by saying this but vwhobo you seem to like arguing with idiots a bit too much haha. It seems to me, now this is just my opinion and i know "opinions are like @$$holes everyone's got one and they all stink" but hear me out, I think that things would be much more pleasent if you just kinda let some stuff slide. I realize how frustrating ignorance can be trust me i know. But, i've found in my many 20 years (haha that's a joke ya'll) that it's best to just ignore it and stick to talking to people who are competent or atleast willing to learn. Don't get me wrong vwhobo i greatly enjoy your input and you do have a wealth of knowledge but some things just arn't worth it, and honestly it's gets kinda annoying trying to sift through arguments to find statements of fact. Well that's all i got, maybe you agree with me maybe you don't but that's how i see things and i just thought i'd throw that out there.

I agree with the sifting part...but there is so much entertainment IN the sifting...get me?
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Old 11-19-2003, 03:30 AM   #32
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and sometimes the arguments are pretty funny to read
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Old 11-19-2003, 04:59 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slavboy1
I'm a some what frequent reader of this forum and I know i'm probably going to be very unpopular by saying this but vwhobo you seem to like arguing with idiots a bit too much haha. It seems to me, now this is just my opinion and i know "opinions are like @$$holes everyone's got one and they all stink" but hear me out, I think that things would be much more pleasent if you just kinda let some stuff slide. I realize how frustrating ignorance can be trust me i know. But, i've found in my many 20 years (haha that's a joke ya'll) that it's best to just ignore it and stick to talking to people who are competent or atleast willing to learn. Don't get me wrong vwhobo i greatly enjoy your input and you do have a wealth of knowledge but some things just arn't worth it, and honestly it's gets kinda annoying trying to sift through arguments to find statements of fact. Well that's all i got, maybe you agree with me maybe you don't but that's how i see things and i just thought i'd throw that out there.

I heartily agree with everything you say, but... If somebody doesn't stop the flow of bullshit it simply continues. If a lie (or untruth, wives tale, etc) is told enough times it becomes believed to be a fact.

I personally would find it much more pleasant if people weren't here spewing their BS too. But until that happens I'll continue to attempt to set the record straight. Happy sifting.
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Old 11-19-2003, 06:30 PM   #34
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Haha thank you
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Old 11-20-2003, 01:33 AM   #35
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Now I do not know much about the 351 Windsor, but I do know a few odds and ends about the Cleveland. Without getting into detail my friend bought a 69 mustang with a aftermarket 351 Cleveland, and it was sitting under pine trees and out in the warm/cold for 6 years. When he bought it he went to turn it on and right away it turned on, maybe this isn't important but I think its pretty impressive. Just my input, but the Cleveland seems like a good engine, but yes the parts are hard to find. Again I don't know much about the Windsor but it could be a great engine to.
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Old 11-20-2003, 01:34 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by wgpjohn
Now I do not know much about the 351 Windsor, but I do know a few odds and ends about the Cleveland. Without getting into detail my friend bought a 69 mustang with a aftermarket 351 Cleveland, and it was sitting under pine trees and out in the warm/cold for 6 years. When he bought it he went to turn it on and right away it turned on, maybe this isn't important but I think its pretty impressive. Just my input, but the Cleveland seems like a good engine, but yes the parts are hard to find. Again I don't know much about the Windsor but it could be a great engine to.

Where do you buy an "aftermarket 351C"?
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Old 11-20-2003, 02:15 AM   #37
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Well it had to be a engine that was put in after the car was bought, it might have been used or what not so "aftermarket" wasn't the best term to use. The previous owner and my friend are certain that that isn't a stock engine, and I am not one knowledgable about Mustangs so I really do not know what they came stock with, I would guess they came stock with a .... a small block 302 (not the boss engine)?
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Old 11-20-2003, 02:20 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgpjohn
Well it had to be a engine that was put in after the car was bought, it might have been used or what not so "aftermarket" wasn't the best term to use. The previous owner and my friend are certain that that isn't a stock engine, and I am not one knowledgable about Mustangs so I really do not know what they came stock with, I would guess they came stock with a .... a small block 302 (not the boss engine)?

You are correct, IF it is in fact a 351C it isn't the original engine as 1970 was the first year for the Cleveland. And yes in 1969 the Mustang came with various engines the 302 being one of them.
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Old 11-20-2003, 02:26 AM   #39
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Haha cool. I wasn't sure entirely about the stock engine but eh I guess I know a little more then I thought I did. I mean the Cleveland seems like a good engine and so does the Windsor, so they both have their equalities,
advantages and disavantages. I was wonder vwhobo, since you are knowledgable on vw's, my father has a 6- (not sure the year) bug and I was wondering do you know of any sites that sells refurbished vw engines ? As I am writeing this I think I should go to google and check for myself, but if you have a good one please tell .. thanks.
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Old 11-20-2003, 02:30 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgpjohn
Haha cool. I wasn't sure entirely about the stock engine but eh I guess I know a little more then I thought I did. I mean the Cleveland seems like a good engine and so does the Windsor, so they both have their equalities,
advantages and disavantages. I was wonder vwhobo, since you are knowledgable on vw's, my father has a 6- (not sure the year) bug and I was wondering do you know of any sites that sells refurbished vw engines ? As I am writeing this I think I should go to google and check for myself, but if you have a good one please tell .. thanks.

Yes, absolutlely. Be more specific as to the year and does he want stock, modified, etc. Also let me know what part of the country you're in. Finally does he want a turn-key engine, long block, short block. Narrow it down for me and I can tell you where to go.
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Old 11-20-2003, 02:50 AM   #41
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I am pretty sure its a 66 or 67. Yes that sounds about right, and the original engine was turn key so I am pretty sure that he would like turn key. Now onto the block size, I am not sure if he wants long or short, sorry about that. He is looking into restoreing it due to the sentimental value and such. Thats basically what I know, he wants me to look for engines and parts since it currently is engineless. Thanks hope this helps a bit more.
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Old 11-20-2003, 02:58 AM   #42
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Sorry Sorry .. the Beetle isn't 66 or 67 its a 71. My bad ..
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Old 11-20-2003, 03:01 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
Finally does he want a turn-key engine, long block, short block. Narrow it down for me and I can tell you where to go.

As ignorance rears it's ugly head...

vwhobo...could you please explain the difference between long and short block? I've heard some conflicting explanations in the past. It's one of those trivial questions that bothers me from time to time and this last post of yours has again peaked my interest. Thx.
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Old 11-20-2003, 03:10 AM   #44
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Haha, I was getting ready to ask the same question Bervarian Wheels.
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Old 11-20-2003, 04:44 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BavarianWheels
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwhobo
Finally does he want a turn-key engine, long block, short block. Narrow it down for me and I can tell you where to go.

As ignorance rears it's ugly head...

vwhobo...could you please explain the difference between long and short block? I've heard some conflicting explanations in the past. It's one of those trivial questions that bothers me from time to time and this last post of yours has again peaked my interest. Thx.

Ignorance is never ugly if there is a desire to learn. I'll do my best to explain, please understand that due to the different designs there is some difference between air-cooled VW engines and most others. I'll tackle this from easiest to hardest to explain.

Turn key = Complete ready to run engine, install in car, hook up wires, fuel lines, etc and turn the key (hence the name)

Long block = Complete engine major mechanical assembly (heads, pistons, cylinders, block/case, crankshaft, rods, valvetrain), may or may not include oil pan, oil pump, valve covers, intake manifold

Here's where it gets sticky due to design differences
Short block = Same as long block minus heads, valvetrain and optional parts... Air-cooled VW's also do not include pistons and cylinders as they are not part of the "block" (actually engine case) assembly

Keep in mind this is a general rule of thumb as manufacturers and remanufacturers are not bound by any specific guidelines. If you're ever in the market to purchase one ALWAYS ask first so there's no surprise.
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