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Old 01-17-2005, 05:14 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMer
Ughh, at the flywheel! NO. The flywheel does'nt spin as fast as the crankshaft thats the point of its existance!

Dammit CarEXPERT. Its measured at the crankshaft. The belts spins faster because the crankshaft spins the belt. Wich in turn spins the gears that spin the cam that open and close the valves.

OHH yea that makes sense. I GOT IT! thanks DSMer
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Old 01-17-2005, 05:19 AM   #32
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carEXPERT are you on carfourms 24/7?
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Old 01-17-2005, 06:35 PM   #33
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carEXPERT are you on carfourms 24/7?

He averages over 50 posts a day, what do you think?
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Old 01-17-2005, 09:44 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMer
Ughh, at the flywheel! NO. The flywheel does'nt spin as fast as the crankshaft thats the point of its existance!

Dammit CarEXPERT. Its measured at the crankshaft. The belts spins faster because the crankshaft spins the belt. Wich in turn spins the gears that spin the cam that open and close the valves.

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Old 01-18-2005, 02:05 AM   #35
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carEXPERT are you on carfourms 24/7?

YEs *yawn*
I type in my sleep
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Old 01-18-2005, 05:40 AM   #36
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YEs *yawn*
I type in my sleep

And yet you don't learn anything.
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Old 01-19-2005, 07:31 AM   #37
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IMPORTANT NOTE: All of your rice ass wantabes. Taking the cone, or filter off your intake will not allow you to take in more air. If you believe this, then you should re-vist your local chemist and phsyics teacher to have them explain to you the relevancy of surface volume. The larger the surface area, the more air your intake will be able to take in at one given intake stroke. So in theory a larger cone, to the point its not so large that you are not able to occupy all of the surface area, will give you better horsepower numbers.

There are probably more sciences that involve intakes than I can explain. This is just a basic guide to get you informed. I'm on my quest to battle ignroance. I hope this helps

I would have thought that the diameter of the intake on the engine side of the air filter would be the determining factor. Whilst taking the air filter off is a very foolhardy exercise and not recommended, it would be the ideal for maximum volume of air that can be passed to the engine. Adding a filter of any type will add some form of restriction irrespective of its surface area and could never allow more air flow than having no air filter.

I run K&N panel filters in my skylines and the performance gain over the Nissan paper filter is marginal for normal running. It is only under full boost (maximum air flow) that there is a difference, but it is not a significant difference.

I have also tried a 'cone' filter (or pod filter as we call them) without a cold air box and the performance is worse than the factory filter. Any performance gains are perception only, as you hear more induction noise, turbo spooling and BOV operation which gives the impression of more performance. It is actually sucking hotter air from the engine bay than the cooler air from the standard air box/panel resulting in a minimal drop in performance.

I have also heard that the additional volume in the standard airbox is used to counteract the pulsing nature of an engines air intake, as the engine does not draw air in in a linear fashion. Not sure if this is valid or not.
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Old 01-19-2005, 09:42 PM   #38
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Drag racers dont use air filters on their turbos. Which is why without a filter it will be suckin in more air.
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Old 01-19-2005, 11:35 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?
I would have thought that the diameter of the intake on the engine side of the air filter would be the determining factor. Whilst taking the air filter off is a very foolhardy exercise and not recommended, it would be the ideal for maximum volume of air that can be passed to the engine. Adding a filter of any type will add some form of restriction irrespective of its surface area and could never allow more air flow than having no air filter.

I run K&N panel filters in my skylines and the performance gain over the Nissan paper filter is marginal for normal running. It is only under full boost (maximum air flow) that there is a difference, but it is not a significant difference.

I have also tried a 'cone' filter (or pod filter as we call them) without a cold air box and the performance is worse than the factory filter. Any performance gains are perception only, as you hear more induction noise, turbo spooling and BOV operation which gives the impression of more performance. It is actually sucking hotter air from the engine bay than the cooler air from the standard air box/panel resulting in a minimal drop in performance.

I have also heard that the additional volume in the standard airbox is used to counteract the pulsing nature of an engines air intake, as the engine does not draw air in in a linear fashion. Not sure if this is valid or not.

Pod filters are one of the biggest hoaxes in the auto industry IMHO. They are up there with spiral/vortex diffusers and useless oil additives. I carried out some tests on air filters and realised a whopping 100 pascal pressure difference between paper filters and the ubeaut pod. To put that in perspective your engine vacuum is about 28"hg or 94595 pascals and flow varies by the square of the pressure, so 100 pascals is next to nothing.

What does make a difference is the intake pipe location, length and rolled mouth.
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Old 01-20-2005, 04:38 AM   #40
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Again and intake serves a very simple purpose. There are many things that promise all sorts of extreme horsepower gains and serious fuel mileage. There are very few things you can do to significanly gain anything worth being bragged about with an intake... Not that all intakes are the same, but generally any well designed setup well give you just as good as power as another...
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Old 01-20-2005, 04:41 AM   #41
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Again and intake serves a very simple purpose. There are many things that promise all sorts of extreme horsepower gains and serious fuel mileage. There are very few things you can do to significanly gain anything worth being bragged about with an intake... Not that all intakes are the same, but generally any well designed setup well give you just as good as power as another...

Then is it worth it to put a intake system because they are like 200 dollers and not that much power increase.
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Old 01-20-2005, 04:54 AM   #42
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Then is it worth it to put a intake system because they are like 200 dollers and not that much power increase.
Absolutley. Stock intakes are crap.
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Old 01-20-2005, 05:51 AM   #43
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For cold air intakes, the filter is at the bottom of the car right? There are some cars that I see that their intake piping goes to the side fender and to the bottom. Do you have to make a hole if you want to put a CAI in. How would you put a CAI in a honda?DSMer?
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Old 01-20-2005, 11:13 PM   #44
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I have to add a couple things in here.

1) RPM means Revolutions Per Minute. That is revolutions of the crankshaft for every minute of operatiing, and it's expressed as a rate, just like ropad speed is a rate if you do 60 mph for 3 minutes, you haven't gone an hour, but you've been moving at a rate that would equal 60 miles if you drove at that speed FOR an hour). It may seem basic, but it seems to be at the root of carExpert's misunderstanding.

Measuring rpms can happen at ANY POINT on the rotating part of the engine, whether that's the crank, or the cams. On cars with distributors, the measurement is taken from there (the tach calculates rpm from the number of times the coil fires). On some older cars, there's an actual cable that runs to the distributor that is gear driven, just like your speedometer is (which is usually taken from eeh output of the transmission, though sometimes is taken from a wheel hub).

On cars without distributors, the RPMs are read using the same sensor/trigger that fires the ignition, and is then calculated the same way. How does it know? In a 4 stroke piston engine, the spark plug ignites once every two revolutions. If the spark plug for once cylinder is igniting ata rate of 1500 times per minute, then teh engine itself is turning at a rate of 3000 revolutions per minute (two revolutions of the crank for every spark event). A 2 stroke of course fires once per revolution. So does a rotary. reading off the coil gives a total number of ignition pulses per revolution for the entire engine (thus a 4 cyl engine fires 4 times for every two revolutions: one complete cycle of each cylinder every two revolutions. So if the coil has fired at a rate that equals 4000 times per minute, the engine is running at a rate of 2000 revolutions per minute (an 8 cylinder engine would fire 8000 events per minute at 2000 rpms).

That's all there is to measuring revolutions per minute.

..............................................

2) there is a difference between "intakes" in the modern aftermarket sense, and "intake manifold" as has been called the "intake" for decades. The "intake manifold" is the part that goes AFTER the air is metered before the intake port (and on most cars, that is cars that dont' have direct port injection, the fuel is added before it gets into the intake manifold, too). Length and diameters of THIS part is critical, as it affects air flow into the ports, and the mixture of the air and fuel charge. The air intake BEFORE the air metering has little or no effect on anything other than adding a restriction to how much air can flow. Length, diameter, etc, is of little to no importance BEFORE the air is metered, except that you want to have as little obstruction as possible. In that regard, ALL CAIs are just glorified aircleaner assemblies. As long as it isn't plugged up, it can be as close or as far from the air metering unit as you want, with no effect OTHER than that of air temps (and DSM's explanation of why air temps are important is spot on. Colder air is denser air. Denser air makes more power.)
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Old 01-20-2005, 11:20 PM   #45
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Thanks that ChrisV finally cleared that RPM thing up. Good one
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