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Old 07-15-2005, 06:09 AM   #46
72firebird
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yea i love the way my firebird sounds with those headers and straight pipes. i need to get a cam for it to get that sound even better. but you guys wanna know what i got goin in the car and whats been put in already? well i dont care if you dont want to im saying anyways. 350 cevy with edlbrock intake,carb,and heads. it has flowtech full length headers (its a branch of holley) and the exhaust is straight from my bros mustang lol. i cut it off from the muffler back. so the pipes are straight. and it theres like 1 inch of pipe after the muffler thats bent towards the ground. there flowmaster mufflers too. right now i have the 289 stripped to a bare block cause it sat for 2 years. i rebuilt the c4 last month. im rebuilding a mustang using his engine for when he gets back from his tour in kosovo. hes military police. also i got the ford 9 incher in my garage wich is goin in next month after i get my check and buy air shocks and a trutec locker. i just got some brand new centerline rims and euro t/a tires for 500 bucks off my uncle steve. he had them on his 68 stingray for a month and he bearly drives it 3 times a month so there was only like 100 miles on the tires. he has a 350 in his vette he built the motor himself but doest drive it too much cause he has 11.5:1 compression so it tends to overheat in the warm weather. its pulling like 440 horses and its backed by a m22. its really nice. but yea my family is really into cars. alot of us own pre 73 muscle cars. but my point is ford makes some good products as well as chevy. and even mopar. thats why ive integrated alot of ford and chevy parts into my firebird. even the bucket seats are out of my bros mustang. nice black leather. plus i also used em cause whats better then free parts. its every gear heads wet dream
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Old 07-15-2005, 04:33 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FordFromHell351
I believe the Mustang was always loosely based on the fox body platform right from the beginning...but maybe Im mistaken.


The Mustang was a Falcon with a different skin from '64-73, then it became a Pinto with a different skin from '74-78. In '79, it switched to the Fox platform that was originally created for the '78 Fairmont. The Fox chassis saw various upgrades to the point that the SN95 was introduced in '94 (though loosely based on the Fox chassis, none of the structural stampings interchanged). It stayed on the SN95 chassis with modifications up to the '05 version, which is on the DEW Lite, a completely new chassis.
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Old 07-25-2005, 04:34 PM   #48
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fords blow

yes most r fords WITH CHEVY ENGINES!!!!!!! LOL dumbass!!!
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Old 07-25-2005, 07:32 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green machine
yes most r fords WITH CHEVY ENGINES!!!!!!! LOL dumbass!!!
Only because Chevys are cheaper to build up, rather than building a Flathead V8 or a badass 302, I assure you, its not for reliabilty reasons
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Old 07-26-2005, 02:00 AM   #50
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more horsepower less money

and chevy got it right all interchangable truck heads on a car engine with a waterpump off a wagon thats why there cheaper!!! nothin on fords interchange!! and reliability i have been drivin chevys for 16 yrs never been stranded yet the only time i was was in a ford granada what a peice of ford junk!!!!!!fords blow alot of money for a lil power thats why most people who have them dont know squat about cars!! lol
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Old 07-26-2005, 02:12 AM   #51
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I hate to argue cause i myself am not a huge Ford fan but i'm starting to like and respect them alittle more. Fords are more reliable then you are making them out to be. Ya they have their problems but then again so does Chevy and Dodge. There hasnt been anyone who could prove that Ford really is that unreliable compared to Chevy and personal opinion/encounters will not be enough. If this would of been about a year ago i'd be on your side but lately Ford is doing something right (in looks AND reliabily) and Chevy and Dodge gotta kinda step it up.
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Old 07-26-2005, 03:02 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green machine
and chevy got it right all interchangable truck heads on a car engine with a waterpump off a wagon thats why there cheaper!!! nothin on fords interchange!! and reliability i have been drivin chevys for 16 yrs never been stranded yet the only time i was was in a ford granada what a peice of ford junk!!!!!!fords blow alot of money for a lil power thats why most people who have them dont know squat about cars!! lol


So want to explain to me why *I* like them? Considering I've been working on and building cars for 27 years? the two Fords i bought new (my '96 Ranger and my '99 SVT Contour0 were flawless.

Not interchangeable? My '74 302 used '66 289 heads with Chevy 1.92/1.64 valves, with a '67 water pump, pulleys off a 429, bolted to a '85 AOD transmission. Heads and parts interchange from the 289/302/351W, and you CAN put the 351C heads on the 302 to duplicate the canted valve BOSS302.
Yeah, sometimes when you get to newer ones, the truck and car specific parts are different, but the actual engine and parts do interchange. And on older ones, there is no problem interchanging. I can put 351w truck heads on a 289 0r 302 passenger car without a problem. or use a truck block with hi-po car heads. It's easy.

If you've been driving Chevy's for 16 years, that would make you in your '30s, at least, which means that in order to form sentences like you have, you must be uneducated.

I've owned may GM and Chrysler cars, as well, over the years. I'm not partial to any single brand. And after owning over 100 cars, and working on/driving vastly more, I can't denounce any one brand like you just did.
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Old 07-26-2005, 03:22 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
So want to explain to me why *I* like them? Considering I've been working on and building cars for 27 years? the two Fords i bought new (my '96 Ranger and my '99 SVT Contour0 were flawless.

Not interchangeable? My '74 302 used '66 289 heads with Chevy 1.92/1.64 valves, with a '67 water pump, pulleys off a 429, bolted to a '85 AOD transmission. Heads and parts interchange from the 289/302/351W, and you CAN put the 351C heads on the 302 to duplicate the canted valve BOSS302.
Yeah, sometimes when you get to newer ones, the truck and car specific parts are different, but the actual engine and parts do interchange. And on older ones, there is no problem interchanging. I can put 351w truck heads on a 289 0r 302 passenger car without a problem. or use a truck block with hi-po car heads. It's easy.

If you've been driving Chevy's for 16 years, that would make you in your '30s, at least, which means that in order to form sentences like you have, you must be uneducated.

I've owned may GM and Chrysler cars, as well, over the years. I'm not partial to any single brand. And after owning over 100 cars, and working on/driving vastly more, I can't denounce any one brand like you just did.


*Blinks*

Chris - I think that's the first time I have personally seen you debase someone and be quite nice about it. But it wasn't even that bad this time, you just called his bluff


As for reliability of any vehicle, it all depends on a few key things(IMHO).

One is how you drive it. I wouldn't touch any 80's/early 90's Mustang in my city, because almost every one of them I have seen is being sh*tbagged by some 16 year old. But say I found a nice 'Stang that some sweet old lady had bought, it would be a damned sight better then the other ones...(for as much as I like Ford.... )

Secondly is maintenance. If you take care of your car, and keep up with it, then a vehicle will last for years, the only problems you will have is standard wear and tear. On the other hand, if you do not maintain your vehicle, then it will be a lot more likely to have serious problems a lot quicker.

Thirdly is what quality you put into it when you do have to maintain it(if that makes any sense). If you put no-name parts into your car versus a slightly pricer but brand name parts, then you're running the risk of those parts being lower quality and more likely to fail again.


Personally, I've been driving for about 6 years(legally for 4) - thank god for living on a farm My family has nothing but Dodges, so I'll admit that I have grown up biased towards them. Although most of the vehicles we have are 'troopers', and have long lives. The 47 dodge that still runs to this day, the 64 dodge grain truck that we still use on the farm, the 92 caravan that has over 360,000kms on it, and the biggest piece of work having been a transmission rebuild.

But I have driven other vehicles too - my friends 2005 Civic Reverb, had a good ride, good handling, and acceleration. Wouldn't be a bad car to own, except I just can't stand Civics, I'd take a Ford before I took a Civic. I also drove a Chevy Silverado for a week as a work truck, and it was nicer then driving my grandpa's Dakota(which he never should have gotten anyways....it's worthless as a farm vehicle). Oh yeah, can't forget the 94 Ford Probe I drove, the Ford Escort ZX2, or the 2004 Cavalier. All of the other vehicles I have driven have good qualities and bad qualities, but I still stand by my Dodges.
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Old 07-26-2005, 05:10 PM   #54
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just my opinion

Not wanting to piss anyone off. I can take the heads off a 98 vette 350 and bolt them on a 70 350. from what i have been told by many mechanic freinds of mine u can't take 302 heads from a 98 ford and bolt them onto a 70 302 block. Do not take my statements in the wrong way i love all the old muscle cars ford, chevy, and dodge! If i really wanted one the 70 426 hemi cuda would be the car of my choice but with the market going insane on these cars lately (past 10 yrs) I would never pay 100,000 for one. My brother has owned fords all his life trucks,cars etc. He has had problem after problem with mechanical failures and getting the dealers to back up their warranties so he finnally bought a dodge truck no problems yet! But he told me he would never buy a chevy cause he knew how much crap I would give him!!!! Guess i turned a possibale chevy person away with my own love for the brand!! LOL Buy the way i wouldn`t mind having one of those ac cobras with the 428 but would probably eventually drop a 427 chevy into it sooner or later LOL!!!
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Old 07-26-2005, 08:12 PM   #55
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Well from what i've heard, the 350 has hardly changed over the years, some minor updates but nothing major. Most engines from that time (60's and 70's) have needed more changes in order to meet emissions, etc. Really i'm an older Dodge fan and would love a 1969 Charger R/T Hemi, but Chevy and Ford are good brands, even if some people have had problems with them doesnt mean ALL cars of that brand have the same problems.
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Old 07-26-2005, 08:17 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green machine
Not wanting to piss anyone off. I can take the heads off a 98 vette 350 and bolt them on a 70 350. from what i have been told by many mechanic freinds of mine u can't take 302 heads from a 98 ford and bolt them onto a 70 302 block.

Probably because there were no '98 302s. By '98, Ford had gone to the 4.6 modular OHC series, with both SOHC and DOHC versions. And they interchange with the 5.4 parts (and internally with the Triton V10 parts).

But, you can take the heads from the '95 302 (5.0) known as the GT 40 heads, and bolt them onto a '70 302 with no problems. Many people do. Same for truck to car and vice versa.

Oh, and you can't take the '98 Chevy parts and bolt them onto a '70, either, as the '98 vette used the LS1, which is an almost completely different engine than the early 350s. The LS1 heads on the vette will not interchange on the older 350. Even the motor mount castings on the block are in different locations. the crank has different journal sizes, and the heads have different mounting bolts. the water passages don't line up. Even though it looks the same, it's as far from the SBC 350 from the '60s and '70s as the Ford 4.6 modular motor is from the 302/5.0. So that part of your argument is not quite valid, either.

Quote:
My brother has owned fords all his life trucks,cars etc. He has had problem after problem with mechanical failures and getting the dealers to back up their warranties so he finnally bought a dodge truck no problems yet!

And I can tell the same stories about GM owners, Dodge owners, Toyota owners, Nissan owners, BMW owners, VW owners, etc. Considering how many cars I've owned over the decades, if I disliked a company because a car I owned of theirs broke, there'd be no cars left to like.
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Old 07-26-2005, 08:35 PM   #57
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I beg to differ

I have a 4 bolt main date coded 1970 350 block with 98 vette 350 heads on it in a car right now and it runs spectacularly, no water journal alignment problems??? I dont have dome top pistons or anything in it so as far as different journal size and stroke length no clearance issuse either?? As far as the 350 not changing over the years and the others did say 302`s IS beacause if its not broke dont fix it! the 350 is probably the most varied and widely used engine of any hot rodder or muscle car builder to date? if you don`t believe so you should do some research11??
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Old 07-26-2005, 10:42 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green machine
I have a 4 bolt main date coded 1970 350 block with 98 vette 350 heads on it in a car right now and it runs spectacularly, no water journal alignment problems??? I dont have dome top pistons or anything in it so as far as different journal size and stroke length no clearance issuse either?? As far as the 350 not changing over the years and the others did say 302`s IS beacause if its not broke dont fix it! the 350 is probably the most varied and widely used engine of any hot rodder or muscle car builder to date? if you don`t believe so you should do some research11??


I did do research. I've been working with these engines for decades. the all aluminum LS1 is a different engine than the 350. You can't use the LS1 crank in the 350, which is what I'm talking about when I mention journal size. If you worked on these engines, you'd have known that. The LS1ís greatness comes from being a clean-sheet-of-paper design. The only major feature it has in common with the Small-Block is a bore center-to-center measurement of 4.40 inches. it carries six-bolt, steel, main bearing caps and a deeper "skirt" that extends below the crankshaft centerline. thes changes alone make it incompatible with earlier 350 parts. The crank is noticeably shorter than that of a Small-Block 350 and the main bearing size is larger than that of all except the old 400. And the crank is cast with an integral ignition trigger wheel that means it can' tbe used in earlier blocks, nor can earlier cranks be used in the LS1. The biggest visual differences between pistons for the new engine and those for LT1/4s are 1) LS1 units have no valve reliefs, 2) they have 6mm. less compression height which allowed the longer connecting rod and 3) the top ring was moved up 1.5mm. This means that the pistons will not interchange between the '98 engine and a '70 engine. or even a '93 LT1 engine.

The LS1's cams can't be used in the earlier engines and vice versa. Bearing sizes and locations are different.

I've done the research many times. I'd like to see how you managed to install '98 Chevy LS1 heads on an early 350.
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Old 07-26-2005, 10:59 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
I did do research. I've been working with these engines for decades. the all aluminum LS1 is a different engine than the 350. You can't use the LS1 crank in the 350, which is what I'm talking about when I mention journal size. If you worked on these engines, you'd have known that. The LS1ís greatness comes from being a clean-sheet-of-paper design. The only major feature it has in common with the Small-Block is a bore center-to-center measurement of 4.40 inches. it carries six-bolt, steel, main bearing caps and a deeper "skirt" that extends below the crankshaft centerline. thes changes alone make it incompatible with earlier 350 parts. The crank is noticeably shorter than that of a Small-Block 350 and the main bearing size is larger than that of all except the old 400. And the crank is cast with an integral ignition trigger wheel that means it can' tbe used in earlier blocks, nor can earlier cranks be used in the LS1. The biggest visual differences between pistons for the new engine and those for LT1/4s are 1) LS1 units have no valve reliefs, 2) they have 6mm. less compression height which allowed the longer connecting rod and 3) the top ring was moved up 1.5mm. This means that the pistons will not interchange between the '98 engine and a '70 engine. or even a '93 LT1 engine.

The LS1's cams can't be used in the earlier engines and vice versa. Bearing sizes and locations are different.

I've done the research many times. I'd like to see how you managed to install '98 Chevy LS1 heads on an early 350.


id just listen to him and stop the argument right there green machine. hes right. and your wrong. no point in going on any further. everyone just needs to remember weve all had bad experiences with different types of cars that affects our opinions on the company. but remember that shit just happens. not always a reason and most bad experiences your brother had with his ford trucks was probably his own fault. lack of maintanence and what not. not the fault of a crappy product on fords part. ive had pontiac motors that were shitty, doesnt mean all pontiac motors were shitty. just the one i had with a shot main bearing which resulted in two shattered piston rods and 3 or 4 holes in the oil pan. you cant base everything on your own experiences alone. cause if that were true from my opinion hondas wouldnt be around no more. but in truth they have reason to be around. as much as i hate imports i drive one every day because of gas prices and the fact that it gets twice as much mpg as my firebird. and you were wrong about ford parts not being interchangable like others said most parts for the 289 302 and 351w are interchangable.
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Old 07-26-2005, 11:20 PM   #60
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to be put more bluntly take a 69 428 scj mach1, 70 hemi cuda, 69 copo 9561 camaro, and a 70 ram air IV trans am. a basicly in the same class. take all of these cars stock. and you got close to the same displacments (with exception of the ram air which is a 400) . and close to the same hp (even though they may not have it listed all of these cars are relatively close in hp ratings) you look at these 4 cars from some of the major manufactures and what i see is basicly their top of line shit. and only fractions of a seccond split them apart. (all of these cars being stock of course) the cuda will fo 5.6 0-60s and 13.41 1/4's. the yenko will do 5.4 0-60s and 13.5 1/4's. the mustang with 5.7 and 13.9s and the trans am with 5.6 and 13.9 1/4s. i dont know what you think but in my book those are some close numbers. close enough to were the wins mostly come from driver error/skill. and if well maintained all of these cars are reliable. so to those of you major manufacturer bashers need to stop cause its not about shitty products. its about opinion. and thats mostly what your thoughts are based on. your opinions not facts. ive owned a dodge a ford a chev a pont, and a honda. and i have not had any big problems with any of them that make them shitty brands. just different
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