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Old 01-26-2005, 12:08 PM   #1
soulmate
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Question Changing rear plugs on my 93 Caddy Deville

I just got this Caddy about 5 mt's ago and have never owned one before. I am trying to change the plugs on it and got the front ones easy but the back one look like they are going to be a lot of trouble. Is there a special way to change these rear plugs, a sode from taking the motor out. LOL.
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Old 01-26-2005, 07:00 PM   #2
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You mean the left side plugs? No. Welcome to the wonderful world of FWD vehicles. Get a good dual-flex spark plug socket.
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Old 01-26-2005, 10:22 PM   #3
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Hmm....

welcome to the world of FWD vehicles? Are you trying to say that front wheel drive vehicles are harder to change spark plugs on? I didn't know that drive type decided spark plug position completely. And beyond that fact I hear one of the most difficult vehicles to change plugs on are F-bodies..... and let me tell you I currently agree with that notion, although I've heard 8 cylinders are even harder than my piddly little V6.

Also soulmate if you are just using a normal socket look into an extened spark plug socket, and perhaps a ratchet extension, and even a ratchet with a pivoting head, these tools generally give a little more chance of getting at those hard to reach plugs. On a final note try not to crack too many of those plugs getting them out, just makes it harder, although it is even worse to crack a new one you are putting in.
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Old 01-27-2005, 02:26 AM   #4
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No the engine is dideways and the rear plugs on the one side of the engine, are up against the firewall, with frame members under the parts and Fuel system and other things over them.
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Old 01-27-2005, 06:19 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flame Roller
welcome to the world of FWD vehicles? Are you trying to say that front wheel drive vehicles are harder to change spark plugs on? I didn't know that drive type decided spark plug position completely. And beyond that fact I hear one of the most difficult vehicles to change plugs on are F-bodies..... and let me tell you I currently agree with that notion, although I've heard 8 cylinders are even harder than my piddly little V6.

Also soulmate if you are just using a normal socket look into an extened spark plug socket, and perhaps a ratchet extension, and even a ratchet with a pivoting head, these tools generally give a little more chance of getting at those hard to reach plugs. On a final note try not to crack too many of those plugs getting them out, just makes it harder, although it is even worse to crack a new one you are putting in.

What are you talking about, you've probably never worked on 5 cars in your life. On most front wheel drive cars they give you about 1.5 hours in the labour books just to change the plugs, where-as for RWD they give you about half that. Nobody likes to work on FWD vehicles, they're way too cramped no matter the car. Ask any mechanic, or anybody who actually has worked on more than a handful of vehicles. Why do you think they invented the cab-forward tranny for FWD vehicles? To make it harder to work on?Explain how it's easier, how is it easier to reach between a firewall and the block vs. reaching over the fender to.. change the plugs, take off the head, change the timing belt/chain. Explain. Because my 5 co-workers would strongly disagree with you, and they have at least 40 years experience under their belts.

And just to tell you, I've owned 3 different FWD vehicles, and 4 different motors, 2 3800's series 1 and 2 2.8/3.1. My family owns 15 vehicles, I maintain most of them, we own a 70 demon, 426 challenger, 91 dakota, 96 Ram 1/2 ton, 03 Mustang Centenial for RWD vehicles, and those are all twice as easy as any FWD vehicle we own. Get some experience before you make a comment like that.

How would using a longer socket and an extension help with a FWD vehicle? You want the shortest socket possible.

Soulmate, well, somebody put them in so obviously it can be done. It may be hard but it is possible. Just get a normal socket and a normal ratchet, and you should be able to get it on, put the socket on THEN put the ratchet onto the socket, that usually works. If you have on a flex ratchet can be quite helpful. Or, if you have any, spark plug WRENCHES, not the socket, but the actual wrenches for a spark plug, you probably can't even get at the plugs with one though.
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Old 01-27-2005, 03:21 PM   #6
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Not always the case...

88 that may be true some of the time, but as I said my Firebird is a pain in the arse when it comes to changing the plugs, and my Alero was a heck of a lot simpler. Just because it may be 'cramped' in FWD vehicles under the hood, doesn't mean the plug location may not be better still. Also it could be worse on certain FWD vehicles also. All I know is I've heard F-bodies are some of the worst to deal with under the hood and my experience has agreed. The fact that you say I've not worked on 5 cars is a little bit silly, seeing as how you are trying to justify that by one thing I've said.... have you ever touched a RWD? Don't just assume people have no experience if they do not agree with you, makes you look dumb when you are wrong.
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Old 01-27-2005, 06:34 PM   #7
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Have I ever touched a RWD? We own about 5 of them not to mention that I work in a shop. The only FWD cars that are okay to work on in any way are inline motors. You ever taken a tranny out of a FWD? You ever had to change the rear head on a FWD? You ever had to take a motor out of a FWD? It's not just plugs in a FWD that are hard to get at, everything about them is hard. F-Bodies the hardest to deal with? Not even close. You ever worked on a Fiero? Same concept as a FWD, rear-engined RWD car.

It's pretty bad that you compare you're experience with an Alero to the worst experience with a RWD. You never compare best to worst. GM did a good job with the 3800 motors, they always left enough room to work on them, but personally, I'd rather just grab a 2 foot extension, lean over the fender and take out the plugs, vs. having to reach behind the engine, trying to take the wires off with the 3 inches of room they gave you between the firewall and head, then trying to get the plugs out. Why do you think not many people who own a FWD do a tune-up? and when they do they usually only get the front 3 in, then realize they can't get the back ones out and take to to a shop.

Explain how plug location of a FWD car could be better than a RWD car? It's easier to reach behind the motor between the firewall and head vs. just reaching over the fender? Go take a look in a labour book, look at the average FWD vehicles compared to RWD.

I work on cars for 5+ hours a day, not to mention my own. Go ask your local mechanic what he prefers to work on, gueranteed he'll say RWD vehicles.

Get it done soulmate?
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Old 01-28-2005, 12:22 AM   #8
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Thanks everyone. I have to take another look and get it done. I have worked on a few FWD before. We owned a Probe once and had to done a clutch job on it and I thought that was hard in 3FT of snow in my driveway. Now I have a heated garage so I should just get down to it.

By the way, I didn't start this thread for it to become a pissing match.

Thanks for the help all of you.
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Old 01-28-2005, 02:56 AM   #9
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[quote=soulmate]
By the way, I didn't start this thread for it to become a pissing match.[quote]

Wouldn't matter if you did. They usually turn out like that anyway.Fun ain't it?
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Old 01-28-2005, 03:10 AM   #10
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[quote=lectroid][quote=soulmate]
By the way, I didn't start this thread for it to become a pissing match.
Quote:

Wouldn't matter if you did. They usually turn out like that anyway.Fun ain't it?

Damn rights

How on earth did you manage to change the clutch in your driveway? You have to drop the tranny to get at it..
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Old 01-28-2005, 03:49 AM   #11
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Talking

I jacked and blocked it up, pulled off the control arm, jacked the engine up and down, then started to spin off nuts and bolts. It was cold, wet and not a lot of fun.
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Old 01-28-2005, 03:59 AM   #12
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But.. to replace a clutch you pretty much have to completely remove the tranny, that'd be incredebly hard on the ground to do.
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Old 01-28-2005, 04:33 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 88GrandPrixSE
But.. to replace a clutch you pretty much have to completely remove the tranny, that'd be incredebly hard on the ground to do.


No you don't. Before I had my shop I did tranny changes and clutch changes on dirt.
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Old 01-28-2005, 04:58 AM   #14
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And how do you get a clutch out without un-bolting the trans? It's impossible.

I never asked if it could be done, I know it can be, I've done it, just not on snow in the middle of winter, in a driveway, but in heated garage with 4 stands.
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Old 01-28-2005, 11:22 AM   #15
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Like I said it was not fun. . I just lowered the tranny with a hydraulic jack and slid it out from the car, to work on the clutch and throw-out bearing. There is not a lot of room but in the Great White North and only one family car, you do what you have to, when you have no money, to take it the a heated garage. I was a lot youger then also.
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Last edited by soulmate : 01-28-2005 at 11:25 AM.
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