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Old 02-16-2005, 05:09 AM   #31
DSMer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choke
dsm all i ment by tha post was that i'd rather drive a manual than an automatic. no i didn't mean to confuse manual with performance, just ment that if ur gunna spend a large sum of money to make a ferrari a automatic maybe you would be better off getting a car built for a smooth ride instead of performance. manual generally give you better control of a car as opposed to an automatic i.e. double-clutching

Last time I checked control of the car consisted with the steeringwheel not the transmission. The Modena was'nt built for pure performance. It was built as one of Ferrari's cars that you would be able to drive every day. The car is going to have a smooth ride regardless to it being automatic or manual. The transmission type really has little or no significance to the suspension quality.

The M5 has a 7-speed manual gearbox and do you think that its ride quality will be any less than that of a 5-series automatic BMW. Point being is that alot of people seem to confuse the qualities of manual transmission with the advantages of an automatic transmission. You seem to be disgusted at a guy who turned his Modena to an automatic transmission. Yet you probably cheer for the dragsters whom you probably don't even know use manual transmissions.
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Old 02-16-2005, 05:29 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMer
Last time I checked control of the car consisted with the steeringwheel not the transmission. The Modena was'nt built for pure performance. It was built as one of Ferrari's cars that you would be able to drive every day. The car is going to have a smooth ride regardless to it being automatic or manual. The transmission type really has little or no significance to the suspension quality.

The M5 has a 7-speed manual gearbox and do you think that its ride quality will be any less than that of a 5-series automatic BMW. Point being is that alot of people seem to confuse the qualities of manual transmission with the advantages of an automatic transmission. You seem to be disgusted at a guy who turned his Modena to an automatic transmission. Yet you probably cheer for the dragsters whom you probably don't even know use manual transmissions.

i feel what you say about the suspension but i ment the big picture, like if you want to cruise around (i'm thinking american graphitti style, 50's impalas) then hell yea automatic will be more comfy, but if if you were more enthusiastic about driving more agressively then manual would be more appropiate. but then again that's my opnion. and i didn't understand the drag comment. do you mean that dragsters use automatic or manual? cuz honestly i'm not sure but i know manual cars usually have faster acceleration based on driver skill.but with a dragster the overwhelming speeds might would make it kinda hard to shift gears wouldn't it? even on a speed shifter (i think thats what they use)?
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Old 02-16-2005, 05:37 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by choke
i feel what you say about the suspension but i ment the big picture, like if you want to cruise around (i'm thinking american graphitti style, 50's impalas) then hell yea automatic will be more comfy, but if if you were more enthusiastic about driving more agressively then manual would be more appropiate. but then again that's my opnion. and i didn't understand the drag comment. do you mean that dragsters use automatic or manual? cuz honestly i'm not sure but i know manual cars usually have faster acceleration based on driver skill.but with a dragster the overwhelming speeds might would make it kinda hard to shift gears wouldn't it? even on a speed shifter (i think thats what they use)?

No manual cars do not have faster acceleration. A heavily modified automatic transmission will shift faster, quicker, and on the exact point every time. Then again you speak about manuals as if they are "enthusiastic".

On average of taking a cruise to the store and back in a manual car how many times did you shift? How many of those shift did you actually enjoy? How many of those did you stop and think "Hey I'm shifting this is fun!"? The point is you did'nt. People who drive manuals don't think about shifting it become a learned instinct. So how can driving a manual over an automatic be any more different than simply manualy breathing for a few controlled breaths then automaticly beginning to breath on your own?

Needless to say the first few weeks of owning a new manual car will be learning and fun but anything after that will simply be like blinking your eyes. I drive a manual to work, school, and recreational events every day. I can honestly say that if my knees did'nt take the wear and tear from traffic I would'nt even know that I drive a manual car.(Aside from when certain girls in my car make reference to the "stick" and I pay conscious attention to what I am doing)
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Old 02-16-2005, 08:28 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeRida67
What a load of jibberish mind-less garbage.

People can and will buy what they want to. Incase you havnt grown up yet, you havnt yet realized a car or any type of vehicle for that matter, is not all about speed. I don't give a crap how fast your car is, if it's for the street, you have speed limits.

In simple terms, grow up. It isn't all about speed. I don't see why you have a problem with what people want to buy.

If you were a real car enthusiast, you'd know a little something about car history and you'd have an appreciation for just about every vehicle out there on the market and what was out there previously.

I find it ironic you are supposedly preaching about ignorance and look at yourself, you are crowned with ignorance.

I'm not arguing whether or not they have a choice to buy, as they can buy whatever they want, it's just one question/statement that I had,
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People seem to like buying a name, regardless of what that name entails.


I made the mistake of making my post come off as all about speed, and that's my fault, but my point/question still stands as above. People buy names and not products.

My problem with what people buy is that they buy it for the wrong reason. Ever heard of an alienware computer? I can make you a faster computer that looks better for half the cost. Sometimes, it almost seems like a duty to me to stop people from buying from alienware, because they're throwing away their money.
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Old 02-16-2005, 08:47 PM   #35
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This thread is never going to end.

Its all about opinion. If Someone is rich enough to buy a ferrari, but instead buys a Civic and Beefs it up, thats thier decison. Likewise, If they decided to get the Ferrari/M3/Lambo/whatever, its because they wanted to.
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Old 02-16-2005, 10:55 PM   #36
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In response to Choke and DSMer arguing about autpmatics....

PLEASE DONT START!!!! Choke forget everything you think you know abou manuals being better than automatics. Automatics are in fact just as good as manual transmissions in every way shape and form. Manuals just offer easier change of shifting point like whenever you feel like it. Autos have to be preset to a certain shifting point of whatever you like it to be. AUTOS AND MANUALS ARE BOTH REALLY REALLY NICE!!! Remember this the automatic transmission was invented after the manual. The automatic is more complex and was created for a better driving experience, than having to shift gears all the time. So they both have their strong points.

And like Zalight said "this thread will never end"

And yes ChrisV it would be good if you could find the thread so you can school the kiddies about their automatic ignorance.
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Old 02-17-2005, 01:28 AM   #37
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Arn't manuals faster than autos because the engine is directly connected to the tranny and wheels? Why do people who race choose manual then if its not faster? Arn't autos slow when they shift? Why are you guys saying autos are faster than manual? Autos are heavier too right? Help me anyone Chris V DSMER,....
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Old 02-17-2005, 03:15 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarEXPERT
Arn't manuals faster than autos because the engine is directly connected to the tranny and wheels? Why do people who race choose manual then if its not faster? Arn't autos slow when they shift? Why are you guys saying autos are faster than manual? Autos are heavier too right? Help me anyone Chris V DSMER,....

Since when is the engine not directly connected to the tranny on an automatic transmission? Are you referring to the flex plate and torqe convertor in an automatic as opposed to a flywheel and clutch in the manual? What do you mean engine connected directly to the wheels? What are you asking?

People race manual over automatic because they choose tome. Sometimes it may be cheaper to build a manual transmission than an automatic or vice versa. What do you mean slow when they shift? How could an automatic be slow when it shifts? What does the wieght of the transmission have to do with its ability to shift faster? You've got a lot of questions and you don't understand the basics of tranmission and engine operation. So telling you why won't mean any more than saying "Blue cows make chocolate milk."
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Last edited by DSMer : 02-17-2005 at 03:35 AM.
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Old 02-17-2005, 03:34 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMer
=
People race manual over automatic because they choose tome. Sometimes it may be cheaper to build a manual transmission than an automatic or vice versa.

dsmer what do you mean by tome? and where did cost come from? isn't the reason for the majority of race cars in most classes being the fact that its simply easier to handle a manual under extreme driving conditions ( i guess at a track) than a automatic? its just every single race car i've seen have a stick shift
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Old 02-17-2005, 03:44 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choke
dsmer what do you mean by tome? and where did cost come from? isn't the reason for the majority of race cars in most classes being the fact that its simply easier to handle a manual under extreme driving conditions ( i guess at a track) than a automatic? its just every single race car i've seen have a stick shift

There should be no "me" at the end of that word. You keep equating a manual transmission with hadling. So if you have a manaul transmission you'll be able to avoid a serious accident whereas if you had an automatic you would not?

Your definition of handling does'nt support what its actual meaning is.

The transmission has very little to do with how the car handles. It simply supplys a rotational force to the wheels. That is all, nothing more nothing less. So long as it is functioning properly there is no reason that a manual transmission or automatic should effect the cars handling ability.
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Old 02-17-2005, 04:04 AM   #41
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Let me set this strait.


Which is faster? Auto or Manual? Simply put; Neither.


Let me explain really quickly. This is a simple one. Just like everything else in an automobile is done... the transmission type is put into the equation when designing an automobile.



It may end up like this, it may not. There are variables and alot of them:

Car #1, stock, auto. 13.00s 1/4

Car #2, stock, manual. 13.00s 1/4

Convert car #1 to manual, now it runs 14.00s in the 1/4.
Convert car #2 to auto, now it runs 13.8 in the 1/4.


What I'm saying is simple. How a transmission performs totally depends on how it is applied. Saying one is faster than another is bull.


There, we have an explination.
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Old 02-17-2005, 05:35 AM   #42
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DSMer, he doesn't mean handling of the car, he means control of the engine. You have better control of the engine speed with a manual. Which is why most road racing/drifting/autocross cars are manual. The driver controls where the engine is at in rpms by changing gears, so he can stay in the power band or wherever he wants in order to get exactly what he wants out of his car.
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Old 02-17-2005, 06:28 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgeRida67
Let me set this strait.


Which is faster? Auto or Manual? Simply put; Neither.


Let me explain really quickly. This is a simple one. Just like everything else in an automobile is done... the transmission type is put into the equation when designing an automobile.



It may end up like this, it may not. There are variables and alot of them:

Car #1, stock, auto. 13.00s 1/4

Car #2, stock, manual. 13.00s 1/4

Convert car #1 to manual, now it runs 14.00s in the 1/4.
Convert car #2 to auto, now it runs 13.8 in the 1/4.


What I'm saying is simple. How a transmission performs totally depends on how it is applied. Saying one is faster than another is bull.


There, we have an explination.

When I was referring to faster I meant as in the switching of gears. While a good drag racer may be able to shift accuratley and very well. He will never be as precise and quick as an automatic transmission. That is what I meant by being faster.

Quote:
DSMer, he doesn't mean handling of the car, he means control of the engine. You have better control of the engine speed with a manual. Which is why most road racing/drifting/autocross cars are manual. The driver controls where the engine is at in rpms by changing gears, so he can stay in the power band or wherever he wants in order to get exactly what he wants out of his car.


I've seen quite a few automatic road racers with electronics that allowed them to control their rpms(i forget the name). Changing gears is'nt the only way to control RPMS, good throttle control helps the situation.
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Old 02-17-2005, 09:32 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSMer
I've seen quite a few automatic road racers with electronics that allowed them to control their rpms(i forget the name). Changing gears is'nt the only way to control RPMS, good throttle control helps the situation.

Just on the note of throttle control, I thought it was impossible to drift in an auto, can't drifting only be done in a manual?
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Old 02-17-2005, 10:04 AM   #45
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Just on the note of throttle control, I thought it was impossible to drift in an auto, can't drifting only be done in a manual?

No, its possible to drift with an automatic tranny.
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